NEWS: Saddam Hussein Pleads 'Not Guilty'

The trial of ex-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein began today. He opened by questioning the validity of the new Iraqi court and pleaded "not guilty". Speaking to the Kurdish Judge, he refused to confirm his name, replying "Who are you? What does this court want?" "Have you ever been a judge before?". The trial was adjourned after 3 hours. Saddam is charged, along with 7 others over the murder of 143 Shiah men in 1982. If found guilty he could face the death penalty.



Get ready for the biggest show trial since Nuremberg. Saddam will be as defiant as Goering and is equally as guilty. Does any one really expect Saddam Hussein to get a fair trial? Does any one care?

I find the theatrics a bit too much though. Using the ex- Baath party National Command Headquarters building to hold the trial and using a Kurdish Judge smack of theatrical flair and trying to illicit the indignant response from Saddam that we witnessed today.

Could the trial be conducted any better though?

www.insidebayarea.com...

Seems that the problem of their being no government in Iraq is causing a stir as people believe there is no way he can receive a fair trial in Iraq.

There's also the thorny issue of Executive immunity. Would the President of the United States be allowed to go on trial by an occupying power? For crimes that occurred inside the United States and outside the jurisdiction of the occupying power? Would the American people recognize the authourity and juridiction of any interim government set up by an occupying power?

Its a legal minefield if you ask me and I have no illusions that Saddam's trial will be fair or that he will be found 'not guilty'. The only contentious topic, really, is whether or not he will be executed. I believe he will not be executed due to the United States fence mending with Europe. If the United States wants any European cooperation within Iraq, or subsequent invasions, it would do best not to execute Saddam.

[edit on 19/10/05 by subz]

Why is he being charged for the death of some odd shia men in 1982? I thought that he was supposed to be captured on the account of "supplying weapons of mass destruction" to the taliban. I ahev no doubt that he is guilty for the murder of the shia whatevers, but why are they charging him for that???

Originally posted by subz
There's also the thorny issue of Executive immunity. Would the President of the United States be allowed to go on trial by an occupying power? For crimes that occurred inside the United States and outside the jurisdiction of the occupying power? Would the American people recognize the authourity and juridiction of any interim government set up by an occupying power?

VERY good questions, subz.

Its a legal minefield if you ask me

Excellent observation.

I agree.

He knows he's buggered so instead of going down as a man who hid in a hole from America, got caught, then executed, he's going to try and look like someone who fought against America to his last breath.

Yup Subz i agree. Also aren't these retro laws?

as posted by subz
Does any one really expect Saddam Hussein to get a fair trial? Does any one care?

Well, an answer can go a number of different ways here.
Should he receive a fair trial?
Did he give out fair trials to all those he had murdered?
Has he ever given a fair trial?
Does he know what one actually is?
Probably does now, huh?
He should get about as fair as trial as can be given, in more ways then one.

IMHO, I would have loved to seen him tried under Muslim/Islamic Law.
Now some are talking about giving him a Hague-type international trial.
Erm, a verdict would be finally be determined in ooooohhhhhh about 3-15 years, if not longer?

Nope, as many of you would assert about Bush or Blair:
Be done with it and hang the man already!







seekerof

[edit on 19-10-2005 by Seekerof]

You know Rudyard Kipling comes to mind. I could say what I think about lowering yourself to other peoples standards but Rudyard said it so well already.

If
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!

That is simply beautiful, Mayet.
Thanks for posting it.
Speaking of lower oneself to others standards, I will be sure that Saddam gets a copy of that poem, as well.

I will also be sure to save it to disk, being it will not be long before I can place it in a multitude of topics within ATS within the next few days, since lowering oneself to others standards seems to be done so effectively and efficiently by some to many around this board, within varying forums and topics.

If the situation had been otherwise, and this was Bush's and/or Blair's trials for war crimes, I am quite sure that you would be no where to be found within those topics, that would undoubtedly be started, planting that poem and mentioning to the effect of lowering oneself to other peoples standards?






seekerof

[edit on 19-10-2005 by Seekerof]

Thanks for sharing that Mayet

Originally posted by Seekerof
That is simply beautiful, Mayet.
Thanks for posting it.

Speaking of lower oneself to others standards, I will be sure that Saddam gets a copy of that poem, as well.

He might, then again he might have already read it.

Originally posted by Seekerof
If the situation had been otherwise, and this was Bush's and/or Blair's trials for war crimes, I am quite sure that you would be no where to be found within those topics, that would undoubtedly be started, planting that poem and mentioning to the effect of lowering oneself to other peoples standards?

Its not just a beautiful poem Seeker

I don't really expect the legal proceedings concerning Saddam Hussein to be finished for around a year and then there are the appeals. I have no idea how this is all going to turn out, but as you said, it will be a show trial. In the end, some duly constituted appeals court in Iraq (if not a Supreme Court) will probably rule on the legality of the trial and the sentence and it will finally be over.

This is the first trial of many for saddam and his buddies. So its gonna take a while. I seriously doubt that he will be found innocent of anything. According to some news reports I heard today. They have video's of saddam interrogating prisoners right after the assination attempt back in what was it 82'? My prediction is that he and all his buddies will a sudden drop and a short stop.

Originally posted by Seekerof
That is simply beautiful, Mayet.

If the situation had been otherwise, and this was Bush's and/or Blair's trials for war crimes, I am quite sure that you would be no where to be found within those topics, that would undoubtedly be started, planting that poem and mentioning to the effect of lowering oneself to other peoples standards?

Don't be sure. Never be sure of anything except the truth.

Planting the poem? No it's not about planting the poem, its about mankind, being a man, having moral standards and seeking the truth, honesty and justice through life....In my case being a woman

(a) respons(es) to my post?!?! I am a little confused. did I asked a stupid question, or do none of you know? If it was the first, then whats they answer?

Originally posted by Kushi
Why is he being charged for the death of some odd shia men in 1982? I thought that he was supposed to be captured on the account of "supplying weapons of mass destruction" to the taliban. I ahev no doubt that he is guilty for the murder of the shia whatevers, but why are they charging him for that???

Its pretty simple

If he was on trial of supplying WMDs to whoever he would be on trial in a international court as that would break International Law. He is on trial in a Iraqi court however and is on trial for crimes against the Iraqie people.

This is a Iraqi court not some UN trial

Oh okey dokey... So does that mean they aren't trying him on supplying WMD's to the taliban, which is why they were searching for him and "declared war on iraq" in the first place?

I don't really expect the legal proceedings concerning Saddam Hussein to be finished for around a year and then there are the appeals.

Are you sure about the appeals? You may be right, but I don't know if appeals are allowed under their system.

Originally posted by jsobecky

I don't really expect the legal proceedings concerning Saddam Hussein to be finished for around a year and then there are the appeals.

Are you sure about the appeals? You may be right, but I don't know if appeals are allowed under their system.

Created because Paul Bremer said so by the appointed IGC the court is an independent entity within the Iraq government that is above all law other than its own.

Confirmed by the constitution well before the so-called hand-over of power its legitimacy is in question.

No other court may interfere, nor may any Iraqi government agency.

Appeals are only to the Special Tribunal.

Statute of the Iraqi Special Tribunal

Personally I doubt he'll get through the whole legal procedure without being executed in the end.

However this ATS so I guess I better ask the 64 million dollar question. What if they find he was under the power of a higher power? I've heard conspiracy theories saying Sadamm was planted by the CIA. What if those were true and evidence was found?

And now aside from a few whacky conspiracy theories I'm just wondering if he'll be turned over to the UN for an international trial. Also, is it possible for him to be transferred to the US for war crimes trials?

I'm just thinking that he's wanted for so many things everybody is going to want to put him on trial for a lot of things.


Oh and this is a bit off topic but I just wanted to say the look on his face in that picture is hysterical. To me it's almost as funny as when we found him in that hole.