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ATS and censorship.
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The WORST thing aboput the ATS rules imho is that they kill any kind of group action.
I don't remember the exact rules which do this but basically any of the folowing will get you banned:
1) soliciting money
2) soliciting group action
3) advertising a site set up to help accomplish one or both of the above
Therefore a lot of the power of a large member base, as seen here on ATS, is neutralized by the enforcement of these overbearing rules.
So we go round and round with discussions - but few ideas can ever get put into practice except by select individuals working alone.
I think this is truly a waste of our potential here - as even the Boyscouts and Girlscouts use their collective membership power to accomplish goals in the community and the US at large.
I mean how cool would it be to set up a donation website whose goal is to collect enough money to set up a UFO or 9/11 disclosure message on a billboard in picadilly or times square?
Even if we had to go with a slightly lower profile location u can bet their would be national and even international coverage of it (even if only to ridicule it)
But as long as the Draconian rules are in place it will never transpire...
And sure some member could set up his own websit - but without the member base or the ability to advertise it here - it would not have half a chance to succeed.
Its this lost potential of excellent grass roots action that makes me sad...
I don't remember the exact rules which do this but basically any of the folowing will get you banned:
1) soliciting money
2) soliciting group action
3) advertising a site set up to help accomplish one or both of the above
Therefore a lot of the power of a large member base, as seen here on ATS, is neutralized by the enforcement of these overbearing rules.
So we go round and round with discussions - but few ideas can ever get put into practice except by select individuals working alone.
I think this is truly a waste of our potential here - as even the Boyscouts and Girlscouts use their collective membership power to accomplish goals in the community and the US at large.
I mean how cool would it be to set up a donation website whose goal is to collect enough money to set up a UFO or 9/11 disclosure message on a billboard in picadilly or times square?
Even if we had to go with a slightly lower profile location u can bet their would be national and even international coverage of it (even if only to ridicule it)
But as long as the Draconian rules are in place it will never transpire...
And sure some member could set up his own websit - but without the member base or the ability to advertise it here - it would not have half a chance to succeed.
Its this lost potential of excellent grass roots action that makes me sad...
Hrm... not even a member for two months... and already some issues with long-standing rules. Let's see if we can resolve some of these:
The "slippery slope" concept applies here. If we were to allow these things, do we allow all of them? If not, who decides which are inappropriate? And even the "appropriate" items might become so numerous that none are effective. The line needed to be drawn and it was drawn high so that our discussion board can focus on what it does best... discussing important issues.
I think you have no idea what our real potential is. Pick any relevant conspiracy topic, or even a remotely connected topic... search it in Google... we're likely in the top 10. In October alone, over 15,000 unique searches brought over 800,000 visitors to ATS.
Many call our current period in history the "information age," as the Internet has revolutionized content delivery. Where else can you have your own theories, ideas, and opinions efficiently published and delivered (for free) to such a massive audience? Information is key. We provide a place to examine alternative angles to important issues, and make sure the world knows about it. Seems like we're already a massive group taking action with information.
Excuse me?
We've provided free advertising for worthy efforts before, and would certainly do so in the future. However, this is often hard due to our efforts to maintain a neutral stance.
Again, you've completely missed what ATS is.
Originally posted by TruthMagnet
I don't remember the exact rules which do this but basically any of the folowing will get you banned:
1) soliciting money
2) soliciting group action
3) advertising a site set up to help accomplish one or both of the above
The "slippery slope" concept applies here. If we were to allow these things, do we allow all of them? If not, who decides which are inappropriate? And even the "appropriate" items might become so numerous that none are effective. The line needed to be drawn and it was drawn high so that our discussion board can focus on what it does best... discussing important issues.
So we go round and round with discussions - but few ideas can ever get put into practice except by select individuals working alone.
I think this is truly a waste of our potential here - as even the Boyscouts and Girlscouts use their collective membership power to accomplish goals in the community and the US at large.
I think you have no idea what our real potential is. Pick any relevant conspiracy topic, or even a remotely connected topic... search it in Google... we're likely in the top 10. In October alone, over 15,000 unique searches brought over 800,000 visitors to ATS.
Many call our current period in history the "information age," as the Internet has revolutionized content delivery. Where else can you have your own theories, ideas, and opinions efficiently published and delivered (for free) to such a massive audience? Information is key. We provide a place to examine alternative angles to important issues, and make sure the world knows about it. Seems like we're already a massive group taking action with information.
But as long as the Draconian rules are in place it will never transpire
Excuse me?
And sure some member could set up his own websit - but without the member base or the ability to advertise it here - it would not have half a chance to succeed.
We've provided free advertising for worthy efforts before, and would certainly do so in the future. However, this is often hard due to our efforts to maintain a neutral stance.
Its this lost potential of excellent grass roots action that makes me sad...
Again, you've completely missed what ATS is.
SkepticOverlord,
I disagree, I have not missed what ATS is - I just lament at what it could be.
The "free" exchange of Informatrion is great - that's why I am here - and trust me I have visted ATS for much much longer than the two months I have been a member here.
(Mainly to read the messages and discussions of my friends and co-workers at ATS - all of whom were eventually and sometimes suddenly banned for the reasons I mentioned above)
While the discussion portion of this site is indeed excellent - and well moderated - perhaps the time has come to be a little more adventuresome - to be bold and take a few risks.
How about a new forum area where people can advertise their website or grass roots idea.
As long as it was isolated to that forum area it would not disrupt the normal discussion sections and the free exchange of information here at ATS.
I guess it comes down to helping people put there money where there mouth is - instead of the constant lamintations in many of the forums that nothing can be done about x corruption or y coverup.
There are things that can be and should be done to end these injustices once and for all - ATS can either be a powerful agent for that social change, or merely an observer of it.
I disagree, I have not missed what ATS is - I just lament at what it could be.
The "free" exchange of Informatrion is great - that's why I am here - and trust me I have visted ATS for much much longer than the two months I have been a member here.
(Mainly to read the messages and discussions of my friends and co-workers at ATS - all of whom were eventually and sometimes suddenly banned for the reasons I mentioned above)
While the discussion portion of this site is indeed excellent - and well moderated - perhaps the time has come to be a little more adventuresome - to be bold and take a few risks.
How about a new forum area where people can advertise their website or grass roots idea.
As long as it was isolated to that forum area it would not disrupt the normal discussion sections and the free exchange of information here at ATS.
I guess it comes down to helping people put there money where there mouth is - instead of the constant lamintations in many of the forums that nothing can be done about x corruption or y coverup.
There are things that can be and should be done to end these injustices once and for all - ATS can either be a powerful agent for that social change, or merely an observer of it.
This is only my opinon and not necessarily that of the guys that run this site, but from what I have observed ATS has built itself an excellent
reputation and particularly with the podcasting and TV show has even more opportunity to grow and expand, and the more it does so the more our voices
can be heard.
Obviously because of this and so it can continue, I imagine the board has to be careful about what it associates itself with and in what way for one thing, otherwise it would quickly be looked at as a disreputable source.
It is hard enough to do this by simply moderating forums, without the additional hassles of exploring individual websites which is what would effectively have to be done I would think.
Raising money and such is a no-no in my opinon, I hated stepping outside LA airport and getting ambushed by the numerous people wanting money and people wouldn't like it here, I know it may not be quite like that but this isn't information eBay or something. You also don't know what the money may be for, there would be confidentiality issues with having to deal with transactions and there is the possibility of fraud.
All things I imagine ATS to rather do without.
And anyway, if you have a good idea then I have always found the Admin to be most helpful and I'm sure if you contact them they would consider your ideas. And if they say no then they wouldn't want it on here anyway I imagine?
Obviously because of this and so it can continue, I imagine the board has to be careful about what it associates itself with and in what way for one thing, otherwise it would quickly be looked at as a disreputable source.
It is hard enough to do this by simply moderating forums, without the additional hassles of exploring individual websites which is what would effectively have to be done I would think.
Raising money and such is a no-no in my opinon, I hated stepping outside LA airport and getting ambushed by the numerous people wanting money and people wouldn't like it here, I know it may not be quite like that but this isn't information eBay or something. You also don't know what the money may be for, there would be confidentiality issues with having to deal with transactions and there is the possibility of fraud.
All things I imagine ATS to rather do without.
And anyway, if you have a good idea then I have always found the Admin to be most helpful and I'm sure if you contact them they would consider your ideas. And if they say no then they wouldn't want it on here anyway I imagine?
What you want is a free ride to advertise and accomplish your goals or dreams on OUR backs. Nothing more, nothing less.
We didn't build this site and work this hard to make it a charitable advertising agency for anyone who wants to sell something to our members or solicit them for "donations".
As S.O. pointed out, we do, from time to time, provide FREE promotion for worthy causes, and like he said that's hard to do since we won't be labeled as having a stance one way or the other in a certain issue. WE choose what to promote because WE are charged with the stewardship of this community.
You have completely MISSED what ATS is.
ATS is the culmination of years of hard work, capital investment and COMMUNITY Collaboration. This happened in large part because we DON'T so what you are advocating.
We are taking this community and it's ideals, to the Television to enhance the site and community NOT individual projects or money making schemes.
A major Hollywood production company and a major television network are making ATSTV a reality because they agree that we have done well by NOT selling out or caving into the obvious cash cow this site could be if greed or ego was our motivation.
That's the bottom line, it's one thing for you to proclaim a desire for this but yet another when you start criticizing us for not doing it. If we are so wrong and ignorant, go build a site and see how you feel about it after 4 or 5 years of hard work and the earned[/] trust of a huge membership. If, after all that assuming you succeed, you still think that taking advantage of the membership you have attracted is the right thing to do then by all means do it.
Springer...
We didn't build this site and work this hard to make it a charitable advertising agency for anyone who wants to sell something to our members or solicit them for "donations".
As S.O. pointed out, we do, from time to time, provide FREE promotion for worthy causes, and like he said that's hard to do since we won't be labeled as having a stance one way or the other in a certain issue. WE choose what to promote because WE are charged with the stewardship of this community.
You have completely MISSED what ATS is.
ATS is the culmination of years of hard work, capital investment and COMMUNITY Collaboration. This happened in large part because we DON'T so what you are advocating.
We are taking this community and it's ideals, to the Television to enhance the site and community NOT individual projects or money making schemes.
A major Hollywood production company and a major television network are making ATSTV a reality because they agree that we have done well by NOT selling out or caving into the obvious cash cow this site could be if greed or ego was our motivation.
That's the bottom line, it's one thing for you to proclaim a desire for this but yet another when you start criticizing us for not doing it. If we are so wrong and ignorant, go build a site and see how you feel about it after 4 or 5 years of hard work and the earned[/] trust of a huge membership. If, after all that assuming you succeed, you still think that taking advantage of the membership you have attracted is the right thing to do then by all means do it.
Springer...
Springer,
I understand what you are saying - and I do think that the Pod Casta, TV show, and even the regular discussion board can be powerful agents of change.
But really they can only do so in an indirect way.
I can empathise with the fact that their are to many fraudulent people on the internet, and that ATS has done well to avoid their influence on this site, but I still am frustrated by the "political capital" if you will, that is squandered by playing it safe here.
Never the less please know I have taken your advice and am starting a site where collective action has a chance to thrive in a safe and accountable way.
Good luck on your further ventures and good job on the formidable community you have helped create here at ATS.
Please know that we criticize only to help improve what is already an excellent outlet for news and research.
I understand what you are saying - and I do think that the Pod Casta, TV show, and even the regular discussion board can be powerful agents of change.
But really they can only do so in an indirect way.
I can empathise with the fact that their are to many fraudulent people on the internet, and that ATS has done well to avoid their influence on this site, but I still am frustrated by the "political capital" if you will, that is squandered by playing it safe here.
Never the less please know I have taken your advice and am starting a site where collective action has a chance to thrive in a safe and accountable way.
Good luck on your further ventures and good job on the formidable community you have helped create here at ATS.
Please know that we criticize only to help improve what is already an excellent outlet for news and research.
Originally posted by TruthMagnet
Springer,
I understand what you are saying - and I do think that the Pod Casta, TV show, and even the regular discussion board can be powerful agents of change.
Not being Springer but this is my thread , I think you just summed it up. Would these new and amazing changes have come about without the vast amount of work by Admin, members and staff? We may be looking at a blueprint to future online action.
I can empathise with the fact that their are to many fraudulent people on the internet, and that ATS has done well to avoid their influence on this site, but I still am frustrated by the "political capital" if you will, that is squandered by playing it safe here.
I don't think ATS has ever "played it safe". I believe we play it "fair".
Please know that we criticize only to help improve what is already an excellent outlet for news and research.
Appreciate that but things are appearently in hand.
Originally posted by craig732
Why is it okay to allow violence, either in avatar pictures, stories, whatever, but not foul languange or sexual themes? My point was that the Terms of Service specifically mention sex as a whole, foul language as a whole, but when it comes to violence it only mentions "gratuitous gore and/or mutilation".
Hmmm, I see that my question was sidestepped in the answer that was provided by "ADVISOR". So can anyone else answer? Why are sexual themes and foul language banned, but violence is allowed except for "gratuitous gore and/or mutilation"?
craig732,
I agree it seems weird - but really isnt it a cultural thing.
America views carnage as much more acceptable than carnality - and Americans dominate this particular sites membership.
It a sad state but it has its origins in our bloody revolution against the English as well as in the religious extremisim of our original colonies.
Over time I think things will even out...
I agree it seems weird - but really isnt it a cultural thing.
America views carnage as much more acceptable than carnality - and Americans dominate this particular sites membership.
It a sad state but it has its origins in our bloody revolution against the English as well as in the religious extremisim of our original colonies.
Over time I think things will even out...
i think banned members should not be prevented from posting in other forums..
this gives a single moderator too much power over an entire board..
(What is "super mods", i dun kno what this means..
how do we kno they are not NWO or
aliens?
this gives a single moderator too much power over an entire board..
(What is "super mods", i dun kno what this means..
how do we kno they are not NWO or
aliens?
Originally posted by incarnate
i think banned members should not be prevented from posting in other forums..
I don't think you fully grasp the meaning of the term "banned" then.
this gives a single moderator too much power over an entire board..
A single moderator has next to no power. Everything is reviewed and typically done via consensus anyway.
(What is "super mods", i dun kno what this means..
how do we kno they are not NWO or
aliens?
You really don't know. I think I think Supers are A.I. At least that's what they programmed me to say. But I suspect some are crime fighting billionare playboys and gals.
i disagree.
Lately, i've seen
some hav red warnings while others are banned without?
Lately, i've seen
some hav red warnings while others are banned without?
Originally posted by smurf55
i disagree.
Lately, i've seen
some hav red warnings while others are banned without?
Most often, these are members who have returned under a new account after being banned, to cause new trouble. Also, from time to time, a new member will get off on the wrong foot by immediately posting either spam or something highly abusive (for example a new member was banned today for creating a new thread titled "Hitler" with a post full of nothing but smilies).
Our goal here is to run an efficient and engaging discussion board where anyone and everyone can participate in through-provoking discussions on interesting topics within an atmosphere of polite decorum. We're not running ATS simply to find reasons to ban people.
And remember, if someone feels that they're banned for no reason, they are completely free to start their own forum and say what they want and run it
how they want.
In my experience most people are banned with a good reason and some of them should've / could've been banned even earlier. Applies equally well here and everywhere else.
I used to own and run a board with close to 7000 members and 1.8M posts. Sometimes I was questioned and even accused of censorship and obstructing free speech. But free speech doesn't mean that you're free to say whatever you want where ever you want.
Administrators and moderators have a broader view of the board and they can see if someone is only venting momentarily or if they're consistently being mostly (or at all times) abusive. First being grounds for a warning and latter for a ban. For a user with a narrower view it can appear that someone is banned needlessly because they haven't seen what other things the banned one has done to necessitate the action.
During my time here I've noticed a few cases where I haven't understood why someone has been banned, but experience tells me that they have deserved it, even if I don't know the details why.
ATS is one of the best (or perhaps The best) administered boards I've run across, and I wish that I had found ATS before I started my own forum. There are things I would've done quite a bit differently if that had been the case.
In my experience most people are banned with a good reason and some of them should've / could've been banned even earlier. Applies equally well here and everywhere else.
I used to own and run a board with close to 7000 members and 1.8M posts. Sometimes I was questioned and even accused of censorship and obstructing free speech. But free speech doesn't mean that you're free to say whatever you want where ever you want.
Administrators and moderators have a broader view of the board and they can see if someone is only venting momentarily or if they're consistently being mostly (or at all times) abusive. First being grounds for a warning and latter for a ban. For a user with a narrower view it can appear that someone is banned needlessly because they haven't seen what other things the banned one has done to necessitate the action.
During my time here I've noticed a few cases where I haven't understood why someone has been banned, but experience tells me that they have deserved it, even if I don't know the details why.
ATS is one of the best (or perhaps The best) administered boards I've run across, and I wish that I had found ATS before I started my own forum. There are things I would've done quite a bit differently if that had been the case.
i find things get pretty hot around here when certain members become swollen with pride in sensitive areas. if people could learn to apply less
pressure, perhaps things wouldn't erupt so soon, into violently heated, passionate exhcanges. if you can get the thrust of what i'm saying, here,
you would realise that i agree with craig732. but, you have to withdraw the whole 'moral code' that's been slipped through our collective back
door by the illuminati.
i also find it diconnected that satanists can calmily discuss the virtues of blood sacrifice and hedonism with little uproar from the 'moral majority' or 'censors'.
links to snuff films are 'okay' on the politically correct web, as long as their real snuff films.
so, remember the moral code:
love=bad
hate=good
happy apocalypso
i also find it diconnected that satanists can calmily discuss the virtues of blood sacrifice and hedonism with little uproar from the 'moral majority' or 'censors'.
links to snuff films are 'okay' on the politically correct web, as long as their real snuff films.
so, remember the moral code:
love=bad
hate=good
happy apocalypso
Originally posted by Majic
It's okay for members to disagree with staff decisions, and the Gripe/Idea button is there for such cases.
yea, i tried that once after being warned for a one sentence response (which was actually a joke i made trying to lighten up a thread that was turning ugly) and was basically told if i didn't like it i didn't have to post here anymore. not a very professional way to deal with complaints.
Suggestions And Comments
Wow, has it been five months already?
I can't speak for other staff members, and I don't know the details of this particular exchange, but that does sound rather brusque.
Not everyone is as fond of flowery prose as I am.
I wrote the comment you're responding to five months ago as a Councilor, and of course my role on ATS has changed since then, but I still stand by my recommendation.
It's called the "Suggestion" button now, but it's still a great resource for members.
However, there's also another option for situations like these...
Just Between U And Me
Now that I'm a moderator, I'm really coming to appreciate the power of U2Us. A huge percentage of moderator business takes place via U2U, member-to-member, privately, to avoid unneeded drama.
My advice: if you still feel hurt by what a staff member told you, send that person a U2U saying so. Just be honest and try to be nice. You never know, you may well get the apology you've felt you deserved.
Or not. It's up to the staff member in question, and hey, we're people too. Maybe you hurt someone's feelings yourself.
No harm in asking, and no harm in talking about it, person to person.
Just sayin'.
[edit on 3/23/2006 by Majic]
Originally posted by enomus
yea, i tried that once after being warned for a one sentence response (which was actually a joke i made trying to lighten up a thread that was turning ugly) and was basically told if i didn't like it i didn't have to post here anymore. not a very professional way to deal with complaints.
Wow, has it been five months already?
I can't speak for other staff members, and I don't know the details of this particular exchange, but that does sound rather brusque.
Not everyone is as fond of flowery prose as I am.
I wrote the comment you're responding to five months ago as a Councilor, and of course my role on ATS has changed since then, but I still stand by my recommendation.
It's called the "Suggestion" button now, but it's still a great resource for members.
However, there's also another option for situations like these...
Just Between U And Me
Now that I'm a moderator, I'm really coming to appreciate the power of U2Us. A huge percentage of moderator business takes place via U2U, member-to-member, privately, to avoid unneeded drama.
My advice: if you still feel hurt by what a staff member told you, send that person a U2U saying so. Just be honest and try to be nice. You never know, you may well get the apology you've felt you deserved.
Or not. It's up to the staff member in question, and hey, we're people too. Maybe you hurt someone's feelings yourself.
No harm in asking, and no harm in talking about it, person to person.
Just sayin'.
[edit on 3/23/2006 by Majic]
The bottom line is that racism needs to go. If the staff are left with no other choice than wielding the banhammer as a means of accomplishing that
end, then personally I'm all for it. Off with their heads.
The simple fact is that relevant information to important discussions is sometimes removed because of t&c. You can paint it any way you like, but not
everything the mods delete is spiteful garbage. The problem people have is with the motto, "Deny ignorance." When a post is deleted, no matter the
content, other members are made ignorant by its absence. Ignorance.
We cannot be "aware" of something that is being deliberately kept (deleted) from us.
the state or fact of being ignorant : lack of knowledge, education, or awareness
We cannot be "aware" of something that is being deliberately kept (deleted) from us.
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