Quakes trigger Quakes

PODcast: GEEK ALERT: Quakes trigger Quakes
Quakes trigger quakes, say two reports published in Nature magazine. The most important factor is amplitude, not frequency. Heightened geophysical activity following last year's Asian tsunami may be related - and has triggered scientific activity around the world.

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[edit on 14-10-2005 by soficrow]

Great Podcast!

I don't know much about these things, but I felt compelled to post because your Podcasts seem to have a hypnotic sort of nature. Great work

BACKGROUND NEWS

Study: Quakes trigger Quakes

Experts study how quakes trigger quakes

Note: The search term "Quakes trigger Quakes" yields over 150 old articles on Google.


ATS and ATSNN

There are hundreds of "quake" related threads here - this is but a taste.

The "Transfer Function" Of Earth

HAARP

Ancient Interstellar Collision: May Help Explain Climate Change

Quake Was Predicted; No One Listened

The Asian Quake May Have Accelerated Earths Rotation: Days Now Shorter

Quake Watch 2005

6.2 Quake in Sumatra Jan 6, 2005

Asia Quake Impacts Virginia Well-Water Levels

Mid-Atlantic Ridge Active (6.8 quake)




Stuff to watch for in the future.

Global Floods/Pole Shifts

Possibe HAARP use on Columbia?

Something BIG is Happening!!!!!!!!

New Fault Zone found under Los Angeles

World Wide Seismic Event...

EARTHQUAKES:Natural or Man-Made?

Solar Flip Already?

The New Madrid Fault Zone

U.S. Concentation Camps, FEMA, and the REX 84 Program

Environmental Warfare

Quake Watch 2004

Did the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation Cause a 3.9 Colorado Quake?

I've gotta say soficrow, your podcasts are amazing and this is just another example, I mean seriously its like listening to a play there. Love the style and text, pleasure listening to it.

When the big Indonesian quake hit back in December of last year, in the following months scientists described it as "ringing the earth like a bell". It sure seems to have. This year is turning out to be a record-breaker for the databases of the past 3 decades. It is common sense that movement in the earth's crust in one area would cause either movement or a stress build up in another area (adjoining that is) if the movement in the first area is not such that the energy is completely dissipated. But I don't believe we have had, in modern times, any example of the connectivity in the earth's crust as we have this year. I truly believe the data shows we are still moving and adjusting due to last December 26th's massive quake. And what is unclear to me is whether it will take another large-scale quake to dissipate the energies down to a level that the earth can find a restful place again.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer

Great Podcast!...your Podcasts seem to have a hypnotic sort of nature. Great work

Thanks AW. ...but,but - I was going for ...galvanizing. Just one question - does this 'hypnotic quality' make you pay more or less attention to the information?

Originally posted by picard_is_actually_a_grey
I've gotta say soficrow, your podcasts are amazing and this is just another example, I mean seriously its like listening to a play there. Love the style and text, pleasure listening to it.

Blush. Thanks.


[BTW: If you have noted that I chose to quote the compliments: Yes, I do have an ego... But FYI - I do take critical notes too. ]

Originally posted by Valhall

I truly believe the data shows we are still moving and adjusting due to last December 26th's massive quake. And what is unclear to me is whether it will take another large-scale quake to dissipate the energies down to a level that the earth can find a restful place again.

I agree - but, judging by the earlier reports, it all may have started even well before that.

January, 2003 Report

A powerful earthquake splits the California desert floor, killing a toddler and crumbling homes. Years later and a dozen miles away, another huge tremor on a different fault rocks the area.

Scientists now believe the two events were related — and they are beginning to understand how.

What do you see the implications being, Val? ...I don't see the 'end of the world' - but I do think we're in for a rocky ride.



.




[edit on 14-10-2005 by soficrow]

Originally posted by soficrow
Thanks AW. ...but,but - I was going for ...galvanizing. Just one question - does this 'hypnotic quality' make you pay more or less attention to the information?

Well since I don't know much about geology, I wasn't really listening for information, but rather to listen to your style.

I think this quote sums up what I'm doing:

"True listening goes far beyond auditory perception. It is the arising of alert attention, a space of precence in which the words are being received. The words now become secondary. They may be meaningful or they may not make any sense. Far more important than what you are listening to is the act of listening itself, the conscious presence that arises as you listen." - Eckhart Tolle

No, I don't see the end of the world. But I think we could have some more (what the modern world deems to call) catastrophic events that are seismic UNLESS, the earth can dissipate in a slow a manner. In other words, if the increased activity of the past year is a mechanism by which the earth dissipates this stored stress, it may very well continue to shake, rattle and roll, but not in some great magnitude way.

This is the area that brought me to ATS. I love watching the earth. My personal opinion is that it is self-correcting and that we won't win - I mean that as our negligence of the environment won't win over the earth. I think the earth will always compensate for the bad things we do. Now, I don't mean that as go buy an SUV and drive till you drop, I mean that as I believe this great mechanism we live on is smarter than us. So the stupider we get, the more virulent the attacks the mechanism launches against us to correct itself back to where it needs to be.

The quakes I view the same way. I'm not saying I think the quakes are because of man, mind you, but that the stresses that build up in the earth's crust, and cause such massive quakes as the 12/26 quake, are just things the earth has to do to "stay together". And I believe it will continue to adjust itself until it achieves a stable state - for however long that stable state lasts.

That's why I love watching natural events. "Knowledge puffeth up" and we haven't got a clue what is happening on the very ground we walk on, or the very atmosphere we depend on. We really are at the mercy of the planet we continually crap on.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
...I wasn't really listening for information, but rather to listen to your style.

I think this quote sums up what I'm doing:

"True listening goes far beyond auditory perception. It is the arising of alert attention, a space of precence in which the words are being received. The words now become secondary. They may be meaningful or they may not make any sense. Far more important than what you are listening to is the act of listening itself, the conscious presence that arises as you listen." - Eckhart Tolle

Ahhh. Great quote. If my pods do that, I'm happy.

PS. When I grow up I wanna be a Sufi.


.

PODcast: GEEK ALERT: Quakes trigger Quakes (reply 1)
Discussion of resonance and seismic wave propagation in relation to Sofi's proposed theories.

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LOL! Without reading the text replies to THIS thread, I went and made a podcast on the interesting style that Soficrow uses in her podcasts.

I wouldn't say that they are 'hypnotic', but more the opposite, alertness encouraging.

PODcast: GEEK ALERT: Quakes trigger Quakes (reply 2)
NrKy's reply to the conspiracy theory of the creation of earthquakes. With background j-pop music, "Here Alone" by Arashiro Beni.

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My first response was to the title and responses on this without listening to soficrow's podcast. I've now listened. There's a bit of technical ignorance behind the whole theory (ignorance not being used in a mean way).

1. Oil extraction does not cause a big subterranean cavern. By and large oil is extracted from the pores of the rock, much like drawing fluid from the pores of a sponge. Though there may be a few oil "pools" in which there are actually significant voids filled with oil, it is extremely rare and does not constitute the majority of oil production. Concerning any "pools" or voids that are created by these rare cases...The earth is about 8000 miles across. Pretending we could create a void with the typical oil reservoir, we're talking about a hole around 1000 ft high and maybe 3000 ft in radius in all directions.

That's equivalent to a pore on your left cheek. And that's not what happens day in and day out.

2. A chamber tends to dampen amplitude. So if you wanted to formulate that the EVIL oil companies are causing voids in the earth...you'd be working against an amplification of waves since any significant void would cause a diminishing of the amplitude. (Hence the reason dampening chambers are used in pressure pulsing situations - to dampen the amplitude of the pulse.)

soficrow:

First, a few words on your PODCats

What can I say? I find myself each time listening to your PODCasts not once, but multiple times...

The style in which they are produced is engaging...thought-provoking...entertaining...haunting...and perhaps most of all...memerable. They are a surprising blend of art and science- a combination rarely seen. The elements are skillfully woven in a way that leaves me quite impressed.

Now on to the matter of the substance of your PODCast...

Who knew? I didn't. The thought had simply never occurred to me. How significant is human impact on the geology of the planet?

Leaving aside for now the conspiracy implications you raise, I realized that we very often fail to view human environmental impact from a macro-environmental perspective.

Humans may surpass other natural forces as earth movers

Think of large earth moving projects: highway interchanges, coal mines or Boston's Big Dig. According to Roger LeBaron Hooke, a University of Maine scientist, such activities have propelled humans into becoming arguably the most potent force in shaping the planet, surpassing rivers, wind and other natural phenomena. He finds this achievement troubling, and other scientists are taking note...

Hooke has put human earth moving into an historical context. After all, people moved rock to build monuments such as Stonehenge in England and pyramids in Egypt and the Americas. In the journal Geology in 2000, Hooke estimated that over the last 5,000 years of human history, the total amount of soil and rock moved by people would be enough to build a mountain range about 13,000 feet high, 25 miles wide and 62 miles long.

In the last century, powerful technologies have enabled people to accelerate this process. At current rates, the size of that metaphorical mountain range could double in the next 100 years, he wrote. "One might ask how long such rates of increase can be sustained and whether it will be rational behavior or catastrophe that brings them to an end"...

Among the environmental problems linked to these activities are acid mine drainage and river sedimentation. Mountaintop removal, a technique for strip mining coal in the Appalachian coal belt, results in the destruction of river valleys, he adds.

This article certainly puts into perspective the scale of the issue, but it is still somewhat hard to visualize.


That had me thinking about Valhall's post:

Originally posted by Valhall
1. Oil extraction does not cause a big subterranean cavern. By and large oil is extracted from the pores of the rock, much like drawing fluid from the pores of a sponge. Though there may be a few oil "pools" in which there are actually significant voids filled with oil, it is extremely rare and does not constitute the majority of oil production. Concerning any "pools" or voids that are created by these rare cases...The earth is about 8000 miles across. Pretending we could create a void with the typical oil reservoir, we're talking about a hole around 1000 ft high and maybe 3000 ft in radius in all directions.

That's equivalent to a pore on your left cheek. And that's not what happens day in and day out.

2. A chamber tends to dampen amplitude. So if you wanted to formulate that the EVIL oil companies are causing voids in the earth...you'd be working against an amplification of waves since any significant void would cause a diminishing of the amplitude. (Hence the reason dampening chambers are used in pressure pulsing situations - to dampen the amplitude of the pulse.)

If you think about the issue on a global basis- all of the drilling (on shore and off), all of the mining, and all of the development- it does tend to raise the question of whether in the aggregate those activities make a difference? Let's remember that these activities tend to be heavily clustered in a variety of places across the planet.

Now, returning to Valhall's post, she points out that in the case of drilling, most often what is left behind is a porous material, as opposed to a cavernous void. However, I also assume that when a well runs dry, or drilling is no longer productive, that the porous material that remains is either dehydrated or geologically filled with water. That would certainly change the properties of these fields to one characteristically different in a geological sense from the fields they were when filled with oil or natural gas.

I could not help but visualize a kind of 'swiss cheese' effect we might potentially be creating. Consider for a moment the items below:


All of the regions that have produced oil and natural gas in the South Central United States

and...


Interactive Gulf of Mexico Oil Rig Map

It's hard to imagine that all of that activity would not have at least some impact on the geological characteristics of those areas. Is that enough to change an area's behavior during seismic activity? I don't know...but, I suspect it.

Consider also the following:

MELT data sheds new and surprising light on birth of oceanic plates

PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- The East Pacific Rise, a vast volcanic mountain range submerged in the eastern Pacific Ocean, is one of the fastest seafloor factories on the planet. Here, along a rocky spine that runs about 1,000 miles west of South America, oceanic crust is created from magma bubbling up from deep within Earth's interior.
Forces that shape these young oceanic plates have come into clearer focus through research conducted by scientists at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, Brown University and the Japan Agency for Marine-Earth Science and Technology.

The research represents the first time that seismic and electromagnetic data were analyzed in tandem from 1995 Mantle Electromagnetic and Tomography, or MELT, Experiment. MELT employed 51 ocean-bottom seismometers and 30 magnetotelluric receivers two miles under the sea to measure sound waves and magnetic fields along the East Pacific Rise, making it one of the largest marine geophysical experiments ever conducted.

In a paper published in Nature, the team notes that in rock down to a depth of about 60 kilometers below the ocean floor, electrical currents conduct poorly and sound waves travel rapidly. Deeper down, beyond 60 kilometers, there is a dramatic increase in electrical conductivity, and sound waves travel at their slowest.

A switch in seismic and electrical properties with depth was expected. Researchers were surprised, however, at how close to the East Pacific Rise this structure develops and how little it changes with increasing distance from the rise.

Brown marine geophysicist Donald Forsyth said the team, led by Robert Evans from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, has a theory about the cause of the sudden compositional changes at 60 kilometers: dehydration.

As magma migrates to the surface to form crust at the rise, it leaves behind a dry, residual layer about 60 kilometers thick. This change from "dry" surface rock to "damp" rock below it increases electrical conductivity and slows seismic velocity, the researchers write.

Here is what they did not expect: These changes occur, the team found, less than 100 kilometers away from the highest point on the ridge. And the seismic and electrical measurements remained nearly constant at least about 500 kilometers away from the crest.

Separating seafloor guides magma up to mid-ocean ridges such as the East Pacific Rise, where the molten rock erupts, fans out along the ocean floor and cools to form new crust. Cooling allows sound waves and electrical currents to travel faster. But scientists thought this cooling – and the resulting changes in the rock – would be gradual.

"About two-thirds of the Earth's surface is oceanic crust – and it is all formed at ridges," Forsyth said. "So this work helps us better understand the basic processes of how this crust is formed."

In what light does this place my theoretical 'swiss cheese' and its behavior with regard to seismic activity?

Even if our current level of drilling, mining and development activity is not enough to make a difference now, then how much is? Do we know? Shouldn't we know?

I wonder...

Or as soficrow would say..."ya gotta get some informaaaaattttiiiiioooooooonnnnnnnnnnn".



[edit on 15-10-2005 by loam]

One thing that complicates it further, and tends to weaken the reports referred to originally, is that let's say for this map



it' very easy to jump to the conclusion that we've got this huge plane of orange that now has a "layer" that is some how weakened by the oil extraction. The problem is, it's not showing you the area in 3D. All those areas in orange are at different depths. So it actually isn't a plane. It's very discontinuous "spots" where oil or gas as been produced. One field's producing zone might be at 20,000 ft and the other might be at 3,000 ft. So the orange doesn't actually "connect together"

Hope that made sense.

EDIT: Corrected pre-coffee homonymal dysfunction.

[edit on 10-15-2005 by Valhall]

PODcast: GEEK ALERT: Quakes trigger Quakes (reply 3)
Responding to Valhall, TrueAmerican, nrky, and loam.

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file: atspodcast_574.mp3
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status: live (at time of posting)

[edit on 10/15/2005 by Amorymeltzer]

*sigh*

My responses did NOT reflect a belief that "nothing is wrong" OR that this would just dissipate away...

When the big Indonesian quake hit back in December of last year, in the following months scientists described it as "ringing the earth like a bell". It sure seems to have. This year is turning out to be a record-breaker for the databases of the past 3 decades. It is common sense that movement in the earth's crust in one area would cause either movement or a stress build up in another area (adjoining that is) if the movement in the first area is not such that the energy is completely dissipated. But I don't believe we have had, in modern times, any example of the connectivity in the earth's crust as we have this year. I truly believe the data shows we are still moving and adjusting due to last December 26th's massive quake. And what is unclear to me is whether it will take another large-scale quake to dissipate the energies down to a level that the earth can find a restful place again.

That's my original post. Where do you see me brushing anything under the carpet? I watch the seismic record and keep up with it because I personally believe the earth's overall seismicity is increasing. I also believe that the December 26th earthquake caused an energy release into the globe that could cause more large-scale quakes - just as I stated above.

I don't understand seismicity and I'm still a groupie and have concerns. Why would I want somebody else to not be concerned just because they don't understand? I wouldn't, and I absolutely didn't say that.

You asked me a follow-up question the the above post:

What do you see the implications being, Val? ...I don't see the 'end of the world' - but I do think we're in for a rocky ride

Here's my response to that:

No, I don't see the end of the world. But I think we could have some more (what the modern world deems to call) catastrophic events that are seismic UNLESS, the earth can dissipate in a slow a manner. In other words, if the increased activity of the past year is a mechanism by which the earth dissipates this stored stress, it may very well continue to shake, rattle and roll, but not in some great magnitude way.

Two important things here - this second response by me is a re-statement of what I said in the first post (as quoted above) and of more importance, I believe we agreed. My response was in agreement with your statement above.

So if you are going to interpret my statement as an attempt to brush something under the rug or diminish the concerns some one might have about the seismic state of the world - you must be doing the same thing, right?

With that said, I would like to request that you provide reference information to the two reports you speak to in your original podcast. If there is no link, and if it's a hardcopy publication, just give the bibliography reference.

Thanks.

[edit on 10-15-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall

I would like to request that you provide reference information to the two reports you speak to in your original podcast. If there is no link, and if it's a hardcopy publication, just give the bibliography reference.

The references are posted above, with links, under "BACKGROUND - NEWS." [Second post down, I think - someone beat me to my follow up post.]

...I didn't mean to misrepresent your positions - didn't think I did - and am sorry if that's the case.

...Am trying to focus on the sciences here - and to categorize everyone's contributions appropriately, according to scientific criteria. I categorized your responses as "social and political science" because you didn't substantiate your positions with specific physical science theories...

We're into a new scientific age - and all the best work is multi-disciplinary. Which means that it's getting more and more difficult to sort through all the information. ...I find that being specific helps me to understand things, and I'm hoping it will help others as well.


.

Well, we need to hurry and get this new science out then, because there are a lot of geologists and seismologists that are tremendously misled. They've been operating off the fact that the greater the density variation between two media at a boundary layer, the greater the reflection angle and the less transmitted through the less dense media. Furthermore, they've been under the impression that S-waves can't even be transmitted through fluids, so they're in a heap of a mess on that one.

And besides that, I don't know how we've gotten away with using mufflers to this point...they shouldn't be working! Under this new science we're likely to blow the windows out of the shops when we go down main street unless we take the muffler off.

It depends on whether you want the wave to transmit to the surface or reflect back and continue to dissipate as it bounces about the inside of the planet. I contend that if we had a giant layer of honeycombs there'd be no way for a quake to transmit from one point on the earth to another...it would just bounce about inside the earth losing a bit of energy each time it reflected against one of these baffles, until it completely dissipated.

But that's because I'm deeply entrenched in the old science.

Oh man, I just thought of something else. That horrendous semester I spent in Vibrations where they lied to me and told me about the dash-pot. That's all wrong too. We should be all walking around with bruised bums because there is no way a gas-filled shock absorber could work.

I'm getting my money back on that class.

[edit on 10-15-2005 by Valhall]