I need some help!!!

First of all, what we all think of as Area 51 is really AFFTC Det.3

I'm in contact with the Project For Government Oversight group. They're looking for some information about Area 51. Really what they want is what to investigate and bring up to the government.

What are some things I should tell them that any of you know from your research into Area 51? Any details you would have them research, or point out?


Thanks!


Here's the email response I got from the POGO about Area 51:

"POGO investigated environmental crimes at Area 51 for many years. Our investigation led to two law suits and better evironmental compliance at the facility. The problem, however, is that it is a "black" facility and therefore we don't get information about the activities or budget. One of the law suits was dismissed based on the government's claim that EVERYTHING at the base was classified, which made it impossible to proceed. The courts agreed and the case wasa dismissed on naitonal security grounds rather than on the merits of the case. Do you have any leads or documents that you could share. I would love to get back into the Area 51 world, but I need help doing it.

Thank you for contacting POGO and please point me in the right direction."








So c'mon people!!! What should I tell him?

[edit on 14-10-2005 by meshuggah1324]

[edit on 14-10-2005 by meshuggah1324]

Why dont you tell them your private phone number to the base? Maybe they give them the info they want.

I'm in contact with the Project For Government Oversight group. They're looking for some information about Area 51. Really what they want is what to investigate and bring up to the government.

Hmm...the government investigating the government...overseeing they're own people huh.

sounds leget

[edit on 14/10/2005 by SportyMB]

They're not part of the government smart guy. They want to over see the government. Ever heard of checks and balances?

Did you read? "POGO investigated environmental crimes at Area 51 for many years. Our investigation led to two law suits and better evironmental compliance at the facility."

Yeah, my private number to Area 51! Pffffffft

[edit on 14-10-2005 by meshuggah1324]

You have made so many *interesting *topics that its almost impossible to believe you. U2U me the link to that email, then and only then will i believe you.

ModEdit: Please be nice

[edit on 10/15/05 by FredT]

Originally posted by meshuggah1324
... "POGO investigated environmental crimes at Area 51
for many years. Our investigation led to two law suits
and better evironmental compliance at the facility."

I'd like to hear more about this supposed "better
environmental compliance" that the private group
claims responsibility for.

I thought A51 was exempt from environmental laws
by presidential order signed by Clinton and just
renewed by Bush.

Sarge

Well if you remember the Area 51 employee who died after being expossed to toxic substances they were burning "on site". I think that was in the 1990's and they were involved in that case I think. Others have been less public.

You can find their email address on their web site.

You guys crack me up

Originally posted by meshuggah1324
Well if you remember the Area 51 employee who died
after being expossed to toxic substances they were burning
"on site". I think that was in the 1990's and they were involved
in that case I think...

The question I asked was, how did this group you've found
help enact "tighter environmental controls"?

Both of the dead A51 workers lost their lawsuits.

Presidential decree exempts A51 from environmental
controls and accountability. There are no environmental
controls at A51. Sat photos continue to show open burning
in the same pits that produced the dioxin and other toxins
from the 90's.

Now how is it, exactly, that you "think" this group
of yours has/had anything at all to do with A51,
environmentally or otherwise?


Sarge

Go to their web site and have a look around...

I need more proof, where is that link i asked for you to U2U me?

Originally posted by meshuggah1324
Go to their web site and have a look around...

No Mesh. YOU support your wild claims with YOUR
evidence.

Let's see some support for the stuff you claim.
Let's see some evidence that you did some
real research.
Let's see something of substance that can
be simply and unquestionably verified.

You've got less credibility than a "National Enquirer"
reporter.


Sarge

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Above is a link to a news article on the main ATS site about one of the cases of worker death at Area 51.

As you will note, the worker's family lost the case, and although Area 51 became subject to examination from the Environmental Protection Agency, all reports become classified as exempted by former-President Clinton.

[edit on 16-10-2005 by SimonGray]

For once, Meshuggah is right. If I am saying that, it should carry some weight, since I am usually at odds with him over his wild claims and often shoddy research. But, you can't argue with solid facts.

The Project On Government Oversight is a legitimate nonprofit organization that seeks to expose abuses of power, waste, and fraud committed by the Federal Government and its contractors. They were founded in 1981 and were quite active in the series of lawsuits regarding environmental misdeeds at the Groom Lake test site.

I am not sure why POGO is having such a hard time getting information. Much of what they need is available (and has been for some time) on the Internet. The official mailing address for DET3, AFFTC, was posted years ago on Glenn Campbell's web site and it is no secret that the Groom Lake facility is run by the Air Force Flight Test Center. There is no mystery. They should just go to the source (AFFTC) and plead their case. They may be rebuffed or get caught up in FOIA requests that drag on for years, but at least they will be making an effort with the right people.

Some of the environmental activities at Groom Lake can be monitored by any citizen with access to acomputer. By studying aerial and satellite images of Groom that have been taken over the past 20 years, anyone can see that the infamous "burn and burial" trenches at the site have been cleaned up and that the base landfill is now all the way down by the Engine Test Cells at the extreme southern end of the facility. Aircraft parking ramps, possibly contaminated with spilled fuel and lubricants, have been excavated and repaved. Old buildings and trailers (dating to the days when asbestos was used freely) have been replaced with modern structures.

Use of overhead reconnaissance is not the same as getting in there and making independent evironmental assessments, but it is a start.

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
...the infamous "burn and burial" trenches at the site
have been cleaned up...

Hmmm. Sure enough, you're right. Apparently the
photos I referred to showing the burning pits were
from the 90's. I concede to your more current, and
more correct research. My apologies for MY less than
complete research this time.

I'm interested in this EPA monitor/inspection situation.
I'm still not sure what POGO had to do with that, but
involved or not...Does EPA inspect and then make
recommentations that have to be followed? All
classified? What would happen if A51 didn't meet
the recommendations? In civilian businesses, there
are fines, lawsuits, some times criminal charges.
What happens on other, less secret mil bases
in terms of EPA monitoring?


Sarge

Originally posted by meshuggah1324
First of all, what we all think of as Area 51 is really AFFTC Det.3

What are some things I should tell them that any of you know from your research into Area 51? Any details you would have them research, or point out?
[edit on 14-10-2005 by meshuggah1324]

First off, Area 51 (A.K.A. Groom Lake) is NOT Det.3. Your contact is wrong about this! Allow me to explain:

Det is short for detatchment. By definition, a datachment is a subsection of a unit. At the Airforce Flight Test Center, there are two main units: the 412th Test Wing at Edwards AFB, and the 414th Test Wing at Eglin AFB. The 412th Test Wing conducts service testing of Air Force aircraft. Now the 412th Test Wing has several smaller test units that are not based at Edwards AFB. These Smaller units that are not based with the main wing are called Detatchments or Det for short. Detachment 3 (det 3) of the 412th test wing is based at Groom Lake in Nevada.

Another exampe of this was when Det 1 of the 9th Strategic Reconnance Wing if base at RAF Mildenhall in England. Det 1 flew SR-71 Blackbirds in the 1960's, 1970's and '80's. The base always was (and still is) called RAF Mildenhall. However, the unit at the base that flew the SR-71's was Det 1 of the 9th Strategic Reconnassance Wing.

Now that the Det issue is addressed, I would advise that you check the ATS archives for some more information. Here are some good starting links for you:

Groom Lake- Here's the Truth

Groom Lake Research Project

Hope we can finally put this issue to rest!

Tim
(EDIT: fixed title)

[edit on 18-10-2005 by ghost]

The operating location at Groom Lake is Det 3, AFFTC. It is not a detachment of the 412th Test Wing. That would make it Det 3, 412TW. It is a direct reporting unit to the Air Force Flight Test Center, not the 412th Test Wing.

In 1979, AFFTC leadership initially designated the unit as a squadron, reporting to the 6510th Test Wing. A month later, it was retroactively assigned as a detachment of the AFFTC to shorten the chain of command. It has since grown to wing strength itself.

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
The operating location at Groom Lake is Det 3, AFFTC. It is not a detachment of the 412th Test Wing. That would make it Det 3, 412TW. It is a direct reporting unit to the Air Force Flight Test Center, not the 412th Test Wing.

Intresting, I didn't realize that. I was going by an old Air Force orginization chart that I have. On that chart Det 3 is listed amoung the squadrons of the 412th Test Wing. It seems that my chart might have a misprint!

Tim