Israel radiates 100000 kids; my first Israel basher thread

I remember promising a while back to start making threads that bash Israel. Well, when I found out about this atrocity, it made my job a little easier. See, I just knew there was something strange about this country the way people act when you criticize it. Anyway, here is some seriously bad stuff that they did...

www.newciv.org...

portland.indymedia.org...

Now that's a shame. Those fools can fry the stuff out of KIDS, yet wonder why people criticize some of the stuff they do. It's pathetic. Even worse is that our govt gave the people money to do the stuff

Israel is a messed up country for this and the other stunts they pull. More people should attack the them in their govt responsible.





[edit on 12-10-2005 by asala]

Not much in the way of real proof, is there?

Sounds like this was put out by the same type of idiot that put out the fox moon hoax crap.

This is mostly carried on conspiracy sites but I was able to find a Government site that had the results of the findings so I think there is at least some truth to this.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Dept. of Clinical Epidemiology, Chaim Sheba Medical Center, Tel Hashomer, Israel.

The mortality experience of 10,834 children treated with x-rays for ringworm of the scalp between 1948 and 1960, 10,834 matched comparison subjects, and 5,392 siblings was evaluated over an average follow-up period of 26 years. Mortality was ascertained by linking unique personal identification numbers of study subjects with the national death registry. Radiotherapy in childhood was associated with an increased risk of death due to tumors of the head and neck (relative risk (RR) = 3) and leukemia (RR = 2.3). No other causes of death were significantly elevated after irradiation. The excess of brain tumors (average intracranial dose = 150 rads) confirms that the central nervous system of the child is sensitive to the induction of cancers by radiation. The bone marrow dose averaged over the entire body was approximately 30 rad, and the estimated risk coefficient of 0.9 excess leukemias per million per year per rad is consistent with other studies of whole-body exposure. A significant excess of bone and soft tissue sarcomas (RR = 9) was also observed. The pattern of cancer risk over time was bimodal; an early peak due to excess leukemias occurred within a few years of exposure, whereas excesses of solid tumors were most apparent after about 15 years. Despite the excess of cancers among exposed persons, over 50% of the deaths in the entire study population were from external events, mainly accidents or events related to military service. An estimate of the total impact of radiogenic cancer after childhood irradiation will require additional years of observation since the population irradiated is just now entering the age ranges normally associated with high cancer risk.

.

Just another run of the mill Barry Chamish conspiracy based on partial and twisted facts.
Remember his garbage conspiracy on the Rabin assassination, etc?

All his material is posted on nothing but holocaust-denier and conspiracy-type garbage sites [Rense, ConspiracyArchives, IsraelInsider, Truthseekers, Indymedia, etc.], for Chamish is nothing but a holocaust-denier and a tool for anti-Semites.
He has transitioned from a worthy, credible writer to one who simply spews fact bits twisted to fit his anti-Israel propaganda. I guess that is where writers are making the big-bucks these days....

Anyhow, Chamish misses many points, mainly that the history of medicine and medical research alone is filled with horror stories of the like and type, and all aside from what currently goes on in medicine and medical research today.
People simply have no real clue and if they do, spin it so that it fits their agenda methodologies, Chamish included. He takes a real story and simply TWISTS it to the point of being so absurd that anyone who reads his accounting will realize that. His numbers are off. His "35,000 times the dose" are so far off, they smack in the face of reality, but then again, mis-printing fact and then twisting it into garbage is something Chamish specializes in. Nothing new here, really.

Chamish and his version of the story is front page tinfoil hat crap.
Nobody set out to deliberately poison Sephardi children.





seekerof

[edit on 12-10-2005 by Seekerof]

Apparently the use of x-rays for treating scalp ringworm was not a practice unique to the middle east.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

Sometimes I wonder about the medical profession.
www.ratical.org...

another study

Of course we used to treat some illnesses with deliberate blood letting, and asbestos was once used as a cigarette filter.

Chalk this up as just another example of good intentions with unfortunate, long term consequences.


edit to shorten link

[edit on 12-10-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

i'd like to see some evidence to back up your post...until then, i wont comment except to say that the united states irradiated an entire division of troops during the 50s to see what the effects of nuclear bombs would be to soldiers at different distances from the blast site....the russians did the same thing.

THOSE are your answers to this? So, we have different opinions, but basically 4 answers for this:

1. This whole thing is a lie and never happened.
2. This is a lie, not because it didn't happen, but because the radiation dose is wrong.
3. This thing is true, but nothing's wrong with it because they didn't know what would happen.
4. This thing is true, but nothing's wrong because govts routinely do this kind of stuff.

I think 3 and 4 offer the best explanations. Sometimes, you just have to try out new stuff like radiation when you discover it, and it's best to do it on kids. Besides, if we didn't use human guinea pigs, how would we learn the effects of stuff like this?

Originally posted by snafu7700
the united states irradiated an entire division of troops during the 50s to see what the effects of nuclear bombs would be to soldiers at different distances from the blast site....the russians did the same thing.

Thanks, snafu, this shows that it is totally acceptable to fry people with radiation. Guess this excuses all those experiments the Nazis did on folks. See, Nazis weren't bad, they were just seekers of knowledge. Everybody experiments on people, it's one of the greatest learning processes...

Originally posted by truthseeka

THOSE are your answers to this? So, we have different opinions, but basically 4 answers for this:

1. This whole thing is a lie and never happened.
2. This is a lie, not because it didn't happen, but because the radiation dose is wrong.
3. This thing is true, but nothing's wrong with it because they didn't know what would happen.
4. This thing is true, but nothing's wrong because govts routinely do this kind of stuff.

I think 3 and 4 offer the best explanations. Sometimes, you just have to try out new stuff like radiation when you discover it, and it's best to do it on kids. Besides, if we didn't use human guinea pigs, how would we learn the effects of stuff like this?

Originally posted by snafu7700
the united states irradiated an entire division of troops during the 50s to see what the effects of nuclear bombs would be to soldiers at different distances from the blast site....the russians did the same thing.

Thanks, snafu, this shows that it is totally acceptable to fry people with radiation. Guess this excuses all those experiments the Nazis did on folks. See, Nazis weren't bad, they were just seekers of knowledge. Everybody experiments on people, it's one of the greatest learning processes...

umm, how do you get "i think its acceptable" out of my post? its absolutely not acceptable, but you better look around at everyone before you go and bash one country in particular. hell, bash everybody if you want, but be fair about it.

oh, and i'd still like to see some proof....its nice to have theories of how horrible everyone is, but back it up with something substantial, as in something more than heresay and opinion.

Aight,

Where's YOUR proof about what you said about the US and Russia? I posted 2 links about what I had to say. The first time I looked it up, I saw at least seven different sites talking about it, but when I came back it was harder to find these sites. So, I posted what I found.

What's wrong with my "lack" of proof, anyway? Is it that there's only 2 links I could find? Or that the person describing the pain isn't credible? Why don't you look up The Ringworm Children or 100000 Radiations? Somebody believes this stuff.

Besides, the point of this thread IS to bash Israel; what did you expect?

There were some incredibly stupid uses of x-ray technology in the early 50's.
And the resulting effects were poorly understood.

1–2 Sv = Light radiation poisoning, 10% fatality after 30 days
1 Sv = 100rem
rem = effective rad
1000 millirad = 1 rad
1.5 Sv is about 150rads x 95% (the amount typically absorbed)

150rads all at once should make a person pretty sick, just to kill ringworms.
(what were they thinking?) In reading a little history of radiology, it seems there were many "experiments" on the general population, in the 1950's, before people realized what the result was.

But some of the numbers on those website links, are kinda high. It gives the impression the x-ray machine could do something it couldn't. Something 35,000 times a dosage limit would kill a person 40 to 80 times over, immediately.

That would be more like a Star Wars weapon, in it's output. Not to mention the incredible amount of power in the AC current that would have to go into it.

btw, 80% of your annual dosage limit of 360millirads is from the natural everyday environment, the other part is from your doctor's x-rays.

www4.nationalacademies.org...

Radiation is not a new hazard for military personnel. More than 200,000 service members participated in U.S. testing of nuclear weapons between 1945 and 1963, and numerous laws passed in the last two decades attempt to provide just consideration of claims for compensation for health problems that some atomic test participants attribute to radiation exposure. The committee's report acknowledges the difficulties encountered in resolving these veterans' claims that are due, in part, to inadequate exposure records. Its report does not address past exposures, however, and focuses instead on the military needs of the future.

www10.antenna.nl...://www10.antenna.nl/wise/628/index.php

The U.S. tested a total of 1,054 nuclear devices between 1945 and 1992. Until 1963 a total of 289 atmospheric tests were conducted in the Pacific and Nevada test site, releasing large amounts of radioactivity into the air. Soldiers, at close proximity to the blasts, were exposed to the radiation and at larger distances citizens were exposed due to radioactive plumes ('downwinders'). Many people were also exposed to radiation in the weapons production facilities, such as uranium mines.

www.findarticles.com...

Soldiers and junior officers equipped with no protective gear except goggles and rubber gloves, which were useless, otherwise wearing only shirts and trousers, were ordered to ground zero to read instruments an hour or two after an explosion. Only when the nuclear warhead of a straying missile went off close by were troops hustled away. A mobile shower-truck, hardly a common amenity of the Red Army, allowed them to wash off contamination. They were then ordered to resume the clothes they had been wearing. Quasi-independent physicians allowed to survey the health hazards in the polygon were bludgeoned by the KGB into silence, thus ensuring that nothing would be done to help the victims.

is that enough, or you want more?

notice my sources are world renowned scholars....yours are posts from some anonymous person that may or may not be true. see the difference? i'm asking you to come up with some real proof. i dont know why you get your hackles up over that, except that maybe you know its BS?

edited for typos



[edit on 13-10-2005 by snafu7700]

Truth seeka: I dont know if you know but ATS is PRO-Isreal if not run by Isrealis. So just dont bring up "those" topics and you will be fine. Dont believe ? do a serach on Israeli based topics and seen how many of those members are now banned.

[edit on 13-10-2005 by helium3]

Originally posted by helium3
Truth seeka: I dont know if you know but ATS is PRO-Isreal if not run by Isrealis. So just dont bring up "those" topics and you will be fine. Dont believe ? do a serach on Israeli based topics and seen how many of those members are now banned.

Why would people get banned for that. A message baord is about opion and why would ATS favor Iseral im not saying there bad but still 100000 kids go missing thats something you don't ignore easliy?

Originally posted by geekboy
but still 100000 kids go missing

Israel is a child centric society.



We became one of the first countries to ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.



Dozens of volunteer organizations deal with various aspects of children's rights - the oldest and largest non-governmental organization in Israel is the National Council for the Child (NCC) which acts on behalf of all children in Israel, without geographic, religious or economic boundaries

Our approximately 2.2 million children Source= comprise 33% of the population.

Where go 1000,000 kids missing? In Israel definitive NOT.

I've worked around x-rays for years now. That would have to be a HUGE x-ray machine to put out that big of a dose per person. And there's no way that any of them would have survived it for longer than a few days tops.

Originally posted by geekboy

Why would people get banned for that. A message baord is about opion and why would ATS favor Iseral im not saying there bad but still 100000 kids go missing thats something you don't ignore easliy?

Did you do a search like i said ?. NO, your signature states
"Those know the truth must reveal the truth. Have a nice day- thank you"
I tried to reveal some truth and you where to lazy to investigate it. Everyone knows this place is PRO-Israel please

down with zionism!!!!!

Originally posted by snafu7700
i'd like to see some evidence to back up your post...until then, i wont comment except to say that the united states irradiated an entire division of troops during the 50s to see what the effects of nuclear bombs would be to soldiers at different distances from the blast site....the russians did the same thing.

Actually it was more than a single division, as your later post indicates.

One of my uncles was in the service durring that time period. I don't know if he participated in those tests, but I suspect that he did. He died of cancer in his late 40's back in the 1970's.

There was a made for TV movie with Martin Sheen about the Nightbreaker tests a few years back.

Some people even claim that John Wayne among others developed cancer after working on a movie set down wind of the Nevada test site.

Originally posted by helium3
Truth seeka: I dont know if you know but ATS is PRO-Isreal if not run by Isrealis. So just dont bring up "those" topics and you will be fine. Dont believe ? do a serach on Israeli based topics and seen how many of those members are now banned.

[edit on 13-10-2005 by helium3]

Yep. All the moderators who vehemently disagree on just about everything else are stalwart in their support of Israel. Those members were just trying to expose the truth in a through, factual way, presenting evidence supporting their views. Their banning had nothing to do with this.

It was interesting, though...I did many searches, and couldn't find anything...Was looking forward to quoting the enlightened, now banned members who tried to expose the truth. What are you searching for?

Helium, let me make something very, VERY clear for you; we do not allow ignorant bigots to mindlessly spew garbage on this baord, got it?

This place is biased? Don't like it here? Do you need to be shown the door, pal? We don't want you to be here against your will, you know.