Coach resigns after pre-game prayer ban.

Thumbs up to this courageous coach! Someone on this high school team needs to step up and be a leader, and lead the pre-game prayer. The resignation is not official till the next school board meeting, and from what I hear they are begging him not to quit.

This mythical seperation of chuch and state thing is getting ridiculous. How is saying a pre-game prayer establishing a national religion?

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This mythical seperation of chuch and state thing is getting ridiculous. How is saying a pre-game prayer establishing a national religion?

No, not ridiculous at all. Apparently if some players complained they felt and were right that the coach was forcing his views on them. The players can pray with each other, however the coach(who is paid by the state) does not need to be the leader.

Many need to grow up about this. I'm tired of hearing about the whiners who think that GOD is not strong enough, and actually needs a prayer said to him.

I don't want anyone who is a member of the government leading my GOD loving child in prayer. Absolutely unnecessary. If this was allowed to continue than we might as well put on our swastika/cross. Imbed the two symbols into each other, and we'd have exactly what GOD does not like.

No, not ridiculous at all. Apparently if some players complained they felt and were right that the coach was forcing his views on them.

How is wishing everyone a safe inury free game considered "forcing" views upon someone? If some players do not like it...that's cool, they do not have to participate, they don't have to bow their heads and pray. But if people want to do so, then what's the big deal, let them do it.

It's those right's of parents and the law that'll get ya every time when you try to use your position as an educator to witness your faith.

East Brunswick coach Marcus Borden was told last Friday by Schools Superintendent Jo Ann Magistro that some parents had complained about prayers Borden initiated at pregame meals and before the games.

Darn parents and their rights. Make Authoritarian Hulk mad. Smash civil liberties! SMASH!

A spokeswoman for the district, Trish LaDuca, said students have the right to pray on school property during school events, but the prayer must be initiated by the students; otherwise it violates the law.

Pray all you want. But teacher's can't lead the prayer against parent's wishes.

Got it surrogate daddy state fans?

Why the heck should the players have to participate in some prayer? If his guy was a muslim coach or he wanted to have the players jump over a fire to zoroaster, would you view the seperation as 'mythical' then??

Originally posted by Nygdan
If his guy was a muslim coach or he wanted to have the players jump over a fire to zoroaster, would you view the seperation as 'mythical' then??

Depends upon the sport and what state you're in. I know some high school teams that would be glad to do a Zoroastrian fire leap if it would help 'em win, and nobody would care. But you gotta WIN, BABY!!!

Really, if a player or players want to pray before, during, or after a game, nobody's stopping them. And who'd know? But there should be no teacher/coach leading prayers at a public school. Although I can tell you for a fact it happens every week.

How is wishing everyone a safe inury free game considered "forcing" views upon someone? If some players do not like it...that's cool, they do not have to participate, they don't have to bow their heads and pray. But if people want to do so, then what's the big deal, let them do it.

So your saying that if they don't want to participate in a prayer led by the government it is okay to stand there and then be ostracized by the coaches and other players who do participate? I'm all for prayer. I'm not all for it being led by a member of the state, and you are required to be in even the same room when it takes place. Let the players lead the prayer without the coach. I would hate for the coach to take names of those not participating in his religious belief, and the boys end up sitting on the pine.

Do you believe in a "religion" being ingrained into our government? Are you saying that GOD is so weak he has to be propped up by a government?

Again the players are the ones protesting. They are protesting a member of the state leading prayer. I don't want any member of gov't leading a prayer in a room that I was required to be in.

Really would you feel the same if the coach led a prayer praising Satan?

Originally posted by yeahright
I know some high school teams that would be glad to do a Zoroastrian fire leap if it would help 'em win, and nobody would care. But you gotta WIN, BABY!!!

Borden, who has led the football program for 23 years. He has a 116-100-1 career record

Maybe the school board really wanted to hire a new coach and this was just a convienient way to get rid of him.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Maybe the school board really wanted to hire a new coach and this was just a convienient way to get rid of him.

That's probably a lot closer to the truth than we'll ever know. School boards put up with a lot worse than a little coach prayer action if the team's winning.

There were a lot of options available to this guy short of resigning. I think his actions speak more about whether he was making some players feel pressured or not. If he felt moved to participate in prayer prior to the game he should have had a "meet at the pole" where only those who wanted to attend showed up, and he could have let players initiate the prayer.

He could have done a lot...and if you accept that your life is to be a witness, he kind of threw away the opportunity to continue to be a role model to the teenagers he interacted with...and in his words just for the g.p.'s of it. General principles don't trump common sense, or the optimal path.

My cousin was on this coaches team, so I called him when I heard this happen. I grew up in the next town over from where this coach coached
My cousin informed me that the coach NEVER made anyone participate and those that didn't participate were never ostrisized by anyone. I always love how many people make assumptions.

Furthermore, my cousin informed me that there was no "dear god" or mention of god...it was simply

"Watch over our players, protect them from harm, keep them healthy....lets have a good game"

How on GOD'S green earth can anyone find that offensive.

Oh and for the record, the individuals that complained, (there were two of them), don't even have players on the team, and one for that matter doesn't even have children in the High School.

If someone is offended by them do a nondenomination prayer then I would suggest they not participate.

The town, the parents, and the current as well as ex players are rallying around this man, as they rightfully should. If this is the worse thing that this individual does in his lifetime then we should count our blessings. I love how a football coach is "forced" to quit, yet we hide petofile coaches because of the exposure and negative publicity

GOD BLESS US ALL if this is the way america is going. And if my prayer just offended you.........tough!!! You have no constitutional right against NOT being offended

The coach of this team is a paid state employee, and therefore represents the state in an official capacity at all school-related functions and activities. Therefore, it is up to the coach to enforce and comply with all school and state policies, procedures, etc.

The courts of the land have repeated stated that it is perfectly permissable to pray on school property or during school events, as long as the school or state does not force it, endorse it, or initiate it. Prayer must be initiated and led by students, not the school faculty or staff. By leading his team during a prayer, the coach was initiating and endorsing a specific religious belief, which is counter to the previously mentioned policy. Therefore he was inviolate with standard school/state policy and procedure. End of story.

Now, is it a big deal to me that he led the prayer? Not really. I played HS football and we prayed before each game. We all (mostly) thought is was kinda corny and that the coach thought he was some kind of Knute Rockne or something, and we payed little attention to it. No one ever complained, that i knew of.

However, I could certainly see how it would be offensive to some people, just as I find the philosophies and teaching of certain other religions offensive and absurd. I would never want any child of mine to be subjected to indoctrination of those religions. So, if there are parents who find the philosophies and teachings of the standard Judea-Christian belief system to be offesnive and absurd, I believe that they are within their right to demand and expect that their children be not indoctrinated inot those systems.

Originally posted by cw034

If someone is offended by them do a nondenomination prayer then I would suggest they not participate.

THIS is exactly the kind of mentality that the ACLU uses as an example of why state-sponsored relion is unconstitutional and wrong. According to this invididual, if you don't share our beliefs, then you can go without our team/school/activity/education (insert whatever state-sponsored activity you desire).

Whats next, if you don't believe in our God, then you can go find somewhere else to learn your ABC's? Or, maybe, if you don't believe in our God, you can't live in our town? Its a slippery slope, people........

I meant don't participate in the prayer NOT in the sport. But then again I would expect that type of response from most

The coach simply shouldn't be saying a team prayer before the game, the non-christians and what not shouldn't have to recuse themself from the rest of their own team. And, again, what if this guy was a wiccan, or an actual satanist, then he can do this and there's not a problem?

Its interseting that the people that complained weren't people on the team tho. If no one on the team is complaining, and we'd all agree that they can 'privately' pray, then wtf, why worry 'bout it.

Originally posted by Nygdan
If no one on the team is complaining, and we'd all agree that they can 'privately' pray, then wtf, why worry 'bout it.

Because we're a society of professional umbrage-takers with too many all too ready to save us from our stupid selves. Didn't you know there's plenty of people who know better than you do what's best for you? Just ask 'em. On second thought, don't bother. They'll tell you anyway.

Beware the Slippery Slope

This discussion is a microcosm showing why no official of the "state" should lead anyone in any sort of "religious" exercise. Too many different people with too many different beliefs and value systems.

The true "slippery slope" is letting the "state" get involved in religion of any type.

I am a GOD loving individual. However, I don't care for any official of the "state" showing any representation of any type of religion. That is why there are churches.

Again one has a mighty weak GOD if government props him up.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

Is this coach forcing government to pass a law when he says a pregame prayer? Or is the government restricting his free exercise of religion and thus his freedom of speech?


For those against, once again.

How does saying a pre-game prayer establish a national religion?

i think someone needs to define "Prayer" and what is wrong with it. Becasue to me the coachs "prayer" is nothing more then a gambler would say before rolling his dice "Daddy nees a new pair of shoes!" is that a prayer? obviosuly this school board thinks so and is being rather arrogant abotu the whole thing. Just becasue a group of people bow down thier heads and listens to the words said by a person.. do0es not neccesarily mean it is a religious prayer

Now if he said "Dear Father son and holy ghost, lets burn these guys like toast" then I would agree is isn't appropriate.

but wouldn't the better step would be to DISCUSS the issue with said coach and complainers before making rules?

The coach resigned, he wasn't fired, and the school can fire him even if he isn't violating a strict interpretation of the constitution. He's a public employee, directing a secular public school football team, therefore he shouldn't be saying prayers before the game. I wouldn't complain if I was one of the kids, and, ironically, none of them did.