UFO's. Yeah right!

If you want to know , what happened to me and two of my co-workers was more of a Close Encounter. And at the time I was fairly confident then and now that the object was not Human Technology.

Since then I read almost everything I can find about UFOs , and I think that the evidence is there and that the evidence supports the ETH. I also think there is tons of Dis-info and plain out and out lies and mythology associated with the UFO Phenomena and if you haven't seen for yourself that UFOs are real objects that people are reporting , I can understand how easy it might be for someone to dis-miss the entire subject.

And of course I , like everyone else, am frustrated by the lack of Good solid evidence as Proof. However , many people must also have had encounters with these objects over the years , at least many report having witnessed and encountered them too, and like my encounter the object simply did not fall apart in front of them to give them the opportunity to collect hard proof that it was there.

So either these objects don't crash or fall apart , or the evidence of that has been successfully suppressed.



[edit on 3-10-2005 by lost_shaman]

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation


1). Why keep it secret? (Presedents like Reagan had a fantasy that the proof would unite the world)

Necessity.

2). Why do we have absolutely no difinitieve proof?

Define difinitive proof. What we are looking for may not be what is presenting itself.

3). What could Elitists or whoever have to benifit from keeping it a secret?

Good question. Any logical answers?

4). If it exists, why wouldn't NASA have a better direction in their space plans?

Perhaps their directions in their space plans are dictated for them, at a pace that is relative to the ideology of this planets ruling species.
[qoute]
5). If you beleieve, what do you believe? What makes any sense?

Many things make sense. But, logic dictates, only a handfull fully explain the whole of the mystery. That handfull requires a stretch of the imagination into the realm of what is still possible.

UFO's have no purpose, or yet I haven't seen one... Maybe you guys have...

No purpose?

I'll choose a UFO over any automobile anytime to get from point A to point B.


[edit on 2-10-2005 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

don't think people were seeing grays in the 18th century. If anything they'd see gargoyles and monsterous apparitions, such as we see depicted in carvings on their buildings. The grays and flying saucers are recent. But they're all from the same source -- spirit beings known as fallen angels. These creatures CAN materialize, and CAN mate with humans. (man is made in the image of God, and the angels were referred to as "sons of God" in Scripture.

So the UFOs are not hallucination. They are real. The military knows what they are. The military is controlled by the Illuminati -- devil worshippers. The military is the biggest practicer of mind control of anyone. I'm talking the high up ones, and especially CIA, NASA, FEMA. Also the Mafia, KKK are satanists. They all work together. Freemasons are devil worshippers. It's all the same.

But the UFO stuff, that's coming from the military. Walter Cooper, former Naval Intelligence, whistleblower, who had a radio show Hour of the Time, now deceased (murdered) called the ones working, collaborating with the reptilian demons "UFOologists."

Hollywood and the media is controlled by the Illuminati also. That's why you get the Star Treks and Star Wars. The people doing these shows are under the control of the Illuminati. Same with Disneyland -- full of occult, and up with animals, down with people message. The Illuminati plans to kill 90 percent of the world population and rewild the planet, give it to the animals. They are definitely Satan's henchmen -- for he too comes, Scripture says, only to lie, kill and destroy.





What?????? You speak as though you wrote the book on aliens. First of all there is no proof that the Scriptures you speak of were ever written by any of the apostles. for more into visit www.nobeliefs.com

Your idea of Satan and Demons has just as much evidence as ufo's or the loch ness monster. And as soon as you labled the Illuminati as "Satanists" I knew you were fanatical. The problem is you do not search for the truth objectively. You have an agenda base on biblical belief and it really makes you look biased and uninformed. To say that the illuminati is trying to destroy 90 percent of the country like it is fact is ridiculous. Your paranoia has started to control you. Imagine going to a world conference with the worlds top scientist to discuss the possiblity of some form of life in the universe and you bring up your theory. Insert laugh here. I assure you the reason the world is not so concerned about ufos is because they have a bigger problem. Bio-warfare and the biological agents the are no longer accounted for(stolen, lost). We don't have time for ghost and goblins when we have a strain of HIV that can be transmitted through sneezing. THe public is not aware of this but I am. I work for a bio-logics manufacturing agency in DC that I will not name. TRust me we have bigger problems than ufos and illuminati. Oh yeah and did you know that there was a huge infectious biolo gics company in New Orleans that was 9 feet underwater. Bet you didn't hear that on Fox news. Now thats scary

Originally posted by Kleversdad


Your idea of Satan and Demons has just as much evidence as ufo's or the loch ness monster.

When was the last time that Demons or the Loch Ness Monster were targeted on RADAR and visually confirmed?

Or taken seriously by the U.S. Air Force, Soviet Union, MOD, Brazilian Air Force?

Or left behind trace evidence ?

Or reported by millions of people from every corner of the Globe.

Or fighter Jets had to be scrambled because Satan was in U.S. , Soviet, Brazilian , French , British, Australian, Iranian ,Canadian, Mexican or Belgian Air Space?

The point being that there is good evidence that the UFO phenomena represents an Unknown Physical phenomena.

I assure you the reason the world is not so concerned about UFOs is because they have a bigger problem. Bio-warfare and the biological agents the are no longer accounted for(stolen, lost). We don't have time for ghost and goblins when we have a strain of HIV that can be transmitted through sneezing.

Last I checked we weren't dropping everything to focus on " Wee Beasties".

One question you guys still didn't ask is, how does one define "Devil" or "Satan" or "Demon"? A few hundred years ago certain natural phenomena were considered either acts of God or the Devil. As such, anything can be labaled "Satanic" and anyone can be labeled a "devil worshipper" and anything that is non-human can be called a "demon" if we want, but it does not make it so. It's sort of like explaining anything we don't understand as "magic" and "miracles". And more to the point, so what if someone DID worship the devil? Who says the devil even exists and that it matters at all?

The devil is a monicker, just a name, like the name "God" - and a name means nothing. Even the Bible says "by their fruits shall you know them" - so getting hung up on the name of the deity they worship is not what defines the person, it is their actions and intentions. If you consider the actions of the Church itself over the course of history, if you consider how religion has been used to manipulate and control humanity through fear and false promises and how the most horrible atrocities were committed in the name of "God" and deemed as "good" and "holy" deeds, you sorta get the idea that the name of who you worship really means nothing!

And it seems to me that religion is what uses fear, threats, temptation, and control mechanisms to subdue and force people into obedience, so if those things are any indication, then religion is the most Satanic thing of all...

Originally posted by lost_shaman

Originally posted by Kleversdad


Your idea of Satan and Demons has just as much evidence as ufo's or the loch ness monster.

When was the last time that Demons or the Loch Ness Monster were targeted on RADAR and visually confirmed?

Or taken seriously by the U.S. Air Force, Soviet Union, MOD, Brazilian Air Force?

Or left behind trace evidence ?

Or reported by millions of people from every corner of the Globe.

Or fighter Jets had to be scrambled because Satan was in U.S. , Soviet, Brazilian , French , British, Australian, Iranian ,Canadian, Mexican or Belgian Air Space?

The point being that there is good evidence that the UFO phenomena represents an Unknown Physical phenomena.

I assure you the reason the world is not so concerned about UFOs is because they have a bigger problem. Bio-warfare and the biological agents the are no longer accounted for(stolen, lost). We don't have time for ghost and goblins when we have a strain of HIV that can be transmitted through sneezing.

Last I checked we weren't dropping everything to focus on " Wee Beasties".

Yeah I have heard those stories too. I also heard about bigfoot even saw a little footage on him, Does that mean it's real. Let me let you in on a little secret. People lie sometimes. How many of those radar sightings have you seen for yourself? How much trace evidence have you seen personally? Like I said before, a lot of people have motives driven by attention and greed. So before you throw out "facts" about planes being scrambled in Belgium, unlesss you were there, don't preach it as gospel. I'm not saying these did not happen and that these people did not see anything. But i'm sure you did not happen to be in these countries in the radio control room scrambling fighter jets to intercept aliens or demons or whatever. At best it was our military using advanced physics in some way the general public is unaware of but doubtful. Please do not present what you have read on the internet as fact unless you were there to see it.

Originally posted by Kleversdad
Yeah I have heard those stories too. I also heard about bigfoot even saw a little footage on him, Does that mean it's real.

True, but there is much more evidence to suggest the reality of UFO's and aliens than there is of bigfoot! Don't forget the historical artworks depicting UFO's. And also the foo fighters that were widely reported by pilots during WWII.

Let me let you in on a little secret. People lie sometimes.

Have to be able to discern when it is likely to be a case of everybody suddenly lying, and when it's not. The great thing about this is, of the thousands of UFO witnesses, pictures, videos, and experiencers, it only takes ONE of them to be true to settle the issue of the existance of UFO's and alien presense here. You'll not find absolute proof, but if you take all the evidence available into account, you start having a good idea. Personally I assign this a very high probability that entities from other realities are interacting with humans and have always done so for various reasons, some of which are for purposes of control.

How many of those radar sightings have you seen for yourself? How much trace evidence have you seen personally? Like I said before, a lot of people have motives driven by attention and greed.

If only people had the same attitude with terrorists and other government propaganda! How many terrorists have people personally seen? How many of them are truly muslim extrimists? How do they know they don't work for government or CIA or Mossad or MI5 etc? I think the attitude you present is very useful to discern the truth in any given situation, as long as you form your probability-based (as opposed to absolute certainty-based) opinion based on all the evidence you have thus far, instead of seeing all the evidence and sticking to an old opinion just because you are used to it, etc.

I agree that many people are lying and some are even intentionally spreading disinformation and confusion to lead others astray, instead of just for personal greed and attention desires. For example, release a bunch of UFO videos and photos that look authentic but are in fact fake, and then prove them to be false and this will work very well to dissuade many people from believing in the validity of the entire UFO phenomenon.

And yet, despite all such efforts, the evidence is indeed overwhelming that we are indeed visited by other intelligences. It is not just a few videos here and there, it is thousands upon thousands of people, sometimes simultaneously witnessing craft that simply are above and beyond any technology we could even dream of now. Governments working overtime to deny and suppress all this phenomena is even more telling. And this has been going on for thousands of years, but has gotten all this attention only in the 20th century because of how "in you face" these contacts and experiences are becoming. Of course there is no absolute guarantee for anything, but this is true for all things, and the best you can do is just work with the evidence that you have, since you'll never find absolute proof of anything at all.

Please do not present what you have read on the internet as fact unless you were there to see it.

Many people DO present things that they have personally seen! There are countless of reports of professional pilots, military, and police personell stating with total clarity what they have seen, and how befuddled they are by it. Most people never experienced or witnessed a tornado either, but it doesn't mean tornados are also just a myth. Again, it's a matter of seeing the bigger picture based on ALL the evidence available. And even if you yourself see a UFO or have an "encouter", who is to say just what the hell you saw and whether it was extraterrestrial by nature? Again, it is not any single piece of evidence that gives you an idea of what's going on, it is many things combined.

[edit on 3-10-2005 by lilblam]

Originally posted by Kleversdad

Yeah I have heard those stories too. I also heard about bigfoot even saw a little footage on him, Does that mean it's real. Let me let you in on a little secret. People lie sometimes. How many of those radar sightings have you seen for yourself? How much trace evidence have you seen personally? Like I said before, a lot of people have motives driven by attention and greed. So before you throw out "facts" about planes being scrambled in Belgium, unless you were there, don't preach it as gospel. I'm not saying these did not happen and that these people did not see anything. But I'm sure you did not happen to be in these countries in the radio control room scrambling fighter jets to intercept aliens or demons or whatever. At best it was our military using advanced physics in some way the general public is unaware of but doubtful. Please do not present what you have read on the internet as fact unless you were there to see it.

I guess you missed my statement that I have had a Close Encounter with a UFO in my earlier post. So yes I have seen for myself that some UFOs are real objects. I reported my Close encounter , and in that way I know that not all people reporting UFOs are lying or seeking attention or even misidentifying Prosaic objects.

Of course most UFO sightings can be explained , but on average one in every five good UFO reports with adequate information can not be explained. ( Blue Book listed 22% of the reports investigated as " Unknown", The Condon Report was even less efficient than Blue Book leaving 30 % of its investigations listed as " Unknown")
I am not interested in the ones that can be explained , but the ones that can not.

Just because I was not present at an event does not mean I have no right to talk about the facts. For instance are you suggesting that UFOs were not sighted over Washington D.C. two weekends in a row in Sept. 1952, or that Fighters were scrambled more than once. Or that the UFOs were seen both on RADAR and by thousands of Civilians , Politicians , and the Fighter Pilots?

I wasn't even born in 1952 , but facts are still facts, and facts can be checked.

Your logic doesn't hold water , just because people do lie sometimes, and the key word is sometimes, doesn't mean everything you read or hear about UFOs is a lie. I would say that the majority of people reporting UFOs have much more to loose by coming forward with a UFO sighting, than to gain by lying because of the social stigma associated with people who report UFOs.

99.9% of the people who report a UFO sighting never make a red cent from the sighting, and attention is almost always negative and some people even suffer financially after reporting a sighting.

First of all define close encounter. Second of all people lie. I believe you to be one of them. You say all the attention you get is negative about your "sighting" yet you have all of these people on this board who want to believe and want to hear what you have to say. You have your own little audience right here to preach at. You feed off of arguing statements that cannot be proven and live to try to convince others you are not lying by stating articles of public panic. Truthfully you have no idea what flew over washington because you were not there and I doubt you no anyone who was. Yes I saw that newspaper article. Well then where are they now. It seems the more advanced our film tech. gets our pictures of them get blurrier and fuzzier. To the rational Human being it does not make sense. A Global secret? give me a break Iraq, syria, Iran, and North Korea would have spilled the beans a long time ago. Use your brain. The lie is up. You say how many people claim to have the same stories or similarities in there stories. Well then lets get 100,000 people to describe a T-Rex. We will then compare the similarities in the description. We will then ask how many people have had a close encounter with a real T-Rex. Your points hold no water. Not mine. You still try reel in sympathy by saying you recieve negative attention but I say it is I who recieve the negative attention for having the "audacity" to call B.S. on you. You present your evidence as fact even though it is not. Do you understand the difference in technology advancement we have had in the last 60 years. And yet the more advanced we get the less proof we have. (Insert Global coverup here). Please. There is no futher room for arguing here. I say they don't exist you say they do. Until you go on national television with any real phsical evidence..say I don't know an alien.. Then stop presenting them as real. Bottonline. Pick any living thing that is alive and obtainable and I will bring it to your front door to show you the difference between reality and wishfull thinking. Have a nice day

we live in a world where over 100 million people have a camera in there pocket on there phone and still nothing. I know I'm not part of any alien suppresion sure I can't speak for the other 99,999,999 people but the right side of my brain tells me there not in on it either. Or maybe they used there camera phone detectors to not go near people who would spill the beans. Keep creating theories to rationalize your stories after all the best argument is one that cannot be settled. I am not saying you didn't see anything but cmon this cannot be ignored or answered. There is absolutly no reason that like you said out of the millions of people who claim to have had contact there is not one.. not one piece of video that would even remotely come close to prove the existence of intelligent life from any other planet. So for you to say you are pretty sure that what you saw was not of human origin is not only ignorant its impossible. How you be "pretty sure" something was not of Human origin if you have never seen anything that wasn't? You would have nothing to base your comparison on. Just because you see something you do not understand certainly doesn't give you any authority to classify it as non-human. Statements like that lead me to believe you do not hold any objective view and that by classifying something as non human with no contol object for comparison just shows your method of wishful thinking

So either these objects don't crash or fall apart , or the evidence of that has been successfully suppressed.



[edit on 3-10-2005 by lost_shaman] [/quot

Or they don't exist

I beleieve people that have yet fullfilled that void inside them, which is the ultimate understanding of our purpose here, will more easily accept something which has no realistic proof. UFO's to one person may just be a glimpse of the astral world to another? Any thoughts?

Anabsolute creation, you are obviously a smart person. I would put you up there with people like Leonardo Da Vinci, Fredrick Neitzche, Jarid Gibbs, and Albert Einstein. I usually do not throw out compliments like this (read my last few posts) but you seem to posess that certain.. I don't what. How does it feel to be classified among such great minds?

Kleversdad,


I think that anything that looks like a technological device that is defying gravity would give a person a damn good idea that it is not Human technology.

I also base that on the Fact that these objects have been reported similar to the one I saw for hundreds of years. They were called "Foo Fighters " in WW2.

J. Allen Hynek classified a Close encounter of the first kind as any sighting of a UFO within 500 yards or less.

A "Foo", or what Hynek would classify as a Night Light , was seen by me and two of my co-workers , after several minutes the NL moved across the Field and Hovered 30 yards from my parked car for five minutes.

I have absolutely no reason to lie about it.

I don't have any fans on ATS contrary to your belief.

Has it occurred to you that maybe the reason I sit around and talk about UFOs on ATS is because its possible that I've seen one!

Of course you don't consider that possibility because you already know that UFOs just can not be possible. So I must be a liar. Making up fairy tales all day just to trick unsuspecting people into thinking maybe some UFOs are real objects.

Maybe if you took an honest look at the evidence and ask yourself does the evidence that is available suggest that all people reporting UFOs throughout history are all Liars and Tricksters, or does the evidence suggest people are witnessing and reporting real events?

The evidence suggests people are reporting real events.

But its always easier to personally attack me than it is for you to justify your beliefs with the evidence available to you , because the evidence does not support your belief.

It was you who mentioned Carl Sagan earlier in this thread, let me quote a few words from Carl Sagan.com and tell me you are following his logic.

Carl Sagan's Common fallacies of logic and rhetoric

Ad hominem - attacking the arguer and not the argument.

Appeal to ignorance (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence).

Caricaturing (or stereotyping) a position to make it easier to attack.

Some Advise from Carl Sagan

Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view.

Arguments from authority carry little weight (in science there are no "authorities").

Spin more than one hypothesis - don't simply run with the first idea that caught your fancy.

Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it's yours.

Quantify, wherever possible.

If there is a chain of argument every link in the chain must work.

Observational selection (counting the hits and forgetting the misses).

I have to think that you are not following Carl Sagan's advice , and are falling prey to some of Carl Sagan's common fallacies of logic and rhetoric.



[edit on 3-10-2005 by lost_shaman]

Originally posted by lost_shaman
Kleversdad,


I think that anything that looks like a technological device that is defying gravity would give a person a damn good idea that it is not Human technology.

I also base that on the Fact that these objects have been reported similar to the one I saw for hundreds of years. They were called "Foo Fighters " in WW2.

J. Allen Hynek classified a Close encounter of the first kind as any sighting of a UFO within 500 yards or less.

A "Foo", or what Hynek would classify as a Night Light , was seen by me and two of my co-workers , after several minutes the NL moved across the Field and Hovered 30 yards from my parked car for five minutes.

I have absolutely no reason to lie about it.

I don't have any fans on ATS contrary to your belief.

Has it occurred to you that maybe the reason I sit around and talk about UFOs on ATS is because its possible that I've seen one!

Of course you don't consider that possibility because you already know that UFOs just can not be possible. So I must be a liar. Making up fairy tales all day just to trick unsuspecting people into thinking maybe some UFOs are real objects.

Maybe if you took an honest look at the evidence and ask yourself does the evidence that is available suggest that all people reporting UFOs throughout history are all Liars and Tricksters, or does the evidence suggest people are witnessing and reporting real events?

The evidence suggests people are reporting real events.

But its always easier to personally attack me than it is for you to justify your beliefs with the evidence available to you , because the evidence does not support your belief.

I believe you. I haven't got one doubt in my mind you had an encounter with a UFO. I'm just trying to tell you what it was you had the encounter with. It was not a spaceship that travelled light years to get here just so they could harass you. But nonetheless, they are real creatures, and what you saw was not a dream or an optical illusion.

Check this first one out. Then check out the others.

educate-yourself.org...

Svali interview
educate-yourself.org...

The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave
educate-yourself.org...

Deeper Insights into the Illuminati Formula
www.whale.to...

Monarch Mind Control Programming: What It Is
mindcontrolforums.com...

And my personal favorite, David Icke:
www.davidicke.com...



[edit on 3-10-2005 by resistance]

I'm kinda on the fence about the origin of aliens myself. The christian side tells me , yes!!, they are fallen angels and are in cohorts with the shadowy side of the gov. But the scientific side says, they could be from the past and have learned through time to accomplish these great things.

I feel one reason disclosure hasn't been made is the immediate change in how we operate this planet. As far as oil and such. Alot of people would loose alot of money. It would also take awhile to implememnt new technologies, such as free energy, non gas powered items and such...

I don't know, but if you really stop and think about certain things and how they work, it all seems kinda predetermined to me.

MSTKN

Hey guys, a little of topic here.. Can someone tell me how to put a picture in my signature? I tried and it just hi-lighted it, and you can't see it.

Thanks in advance!!

MSTKN

So I guess we are now saying that UFO's are NOT from from this Universe. But are from some other deminsion that has a sinister control over our way of life. Sounds interesting... My question is this... Who is in control of this information? And what does China think about this?

I beleieve people that have yet fullfilled that void inside them, which is the ultimate understanding of our purpose here, will more easily accept something which has no realistic proof.

ufostreams.com...

How do you account for many of the implants that are taken out of people, which have been scientifically proven to have strange and unusual behavior, and some have differences in elemental isotopic ratios that are not of this world.

In addition:

www.alienscalpel.com...

I removed the object from the surgical sponge and placed it in the solution of blood serum for safekeeping and transportation. When this was done I noted the stainless steel instrument I had just used to transfer the object had been magnetized. This again is strange because these instruments are made to reduce the possibility of this occurring.

www.alienlovebite.com...

"The findings of these implant surgeries are highly unusual," reported Dr. Leir. "In all these cases, there was virtually no inflammatory response." This is not the usual finding in foreign tissue reactions. Normally, foreign bodies embedded in tissues result in some type of acute or chronic inflammatory response, and may include fibrosis and cyst formation. Such was not the case here. The pathology reports of the first two surgeries revealed that the metallic objects were encased in a very dense, tough, grey membrane consisting of proteinaceous coagulum, hemoseridin and pure keratin. More simply, blood protein and skin cells that are usually found in the superficial layer of the skin. The tough, biological "cocoons" encasing the implants were also found to contain nerve proprioceptors - nerve and pressure cells of the wrong tissue type for that part of the body. These implant cocoons also fluoresced a bright green color in the presence of an ultraviolet light source.

The implants from the two women from the second set of surgeries did not exhibit metallic properties like the implants from the first set of surgeries. In fact, the spheroid, whitish objects did not contain the tough, biological outer jackets, or fluoresce from a UV light source. These types of implants (possibly biological) also lacked the expected inflammatory response, according to the pathology reports. The crystalline-like object excised from the foot in the most recent surgery, also lacked the tough, grey, outer membrane and had virtually no inflammatory response, as in the other implant surgeries. Test results from the first set of implants revealed that the lammelar, needle shaped metallic objects in question are basically meteoric in origin, containing at least eleven different elements.

My question is this... Who is in control of this information? And what does China think about this?

Some say it could be the military/air force/navy. If this is so, when was the last time any of these three spit out information they did not want to leak out? If these three are in some form of control, any form of technology gathered from supposed crashed aircraft would want to be kept secret by these three, rather than just giving it out for the "greator good" of humanity.

In other situations, top secret programs in the CIA(or any high level agency) can also have access to this type of information. Would that mean that everyone in the CIA would know? Nope. Compartmentalization is the key.

Different countries have different methods of control. Sometimes the best strategy is to not brief the president on issues which he does not need to know, and can be handled by others.

In addition, if the UFO field was all BS like some others have claimed here, you should realize the Brazilian Air Force officially reconizes UFO research and has released classified documents this year. Why keep classified UFO documents if there all just BS?

www.rense.com...

So the hardcore secrecy doesnt apply to every nation. There will eventually be a straw that will break the camel's back.

I think he was joking about china. At least the Faulk-dog would be joking.

[edit on 3-10-2005 by Kleversdad]