Could Israel win against Iran

Don't underestimate Israel in any way. They are a strong and defiant state and their military is top notch. I have to also believe that air strikes would be the beginning, followed by a ground assault from the Israeli armies and a strong push by the Americans from the Iraqi borders. The Iranian army has an army troop wise, but their technology is still cold war and I would have to question their resolve when faced with an invasion from two sides. If China or Russia were to get involved it's simple - WWIII.

Originally posted by BlackOps719
Don't underestimate Israel in any way. They are a strong and defiant state and their military is top notch. I have to also believe that air strikes would be the beginning, followed by a ground assault from the Israeli armies and a strong push by the Americans from the Iraqi borders. The Iranian army has an army troop wise, but their technology is still cold war and I would have to question their resolve when faced with an invasion from two sides. If China or Russia were to get involved it's simple - WWIII.

just to point out it would be impossible for isreal to lauch a good ground assult against Iran because of the sheer distance unlike Iraq where the US had its allies to base its troops before invading.
Israel would have to get through 1-2 countries
and have its armed forces dwarfed by the sheer numbers of Iranians

even if Israel us did take hold togther Israelis would be targeted more then americans more armed and trained maltia

and on further note israel wouldnt attack because it can be easily struck back with iranian missiles in a counter attack and iran has a lot of toys unlike its neigbour

as the saying goes never underestimate your foe

[edit on 4-3-2006 by bodrul]

Israel can whup anybody and everybody in the Middle East, one at a time or all together.
Israel has already established it's superiority in every respect to other nations in the theatre. A bunch of incompetants is bad enough; a chyt load of incompetants ain't nothin but worse.
Nobody with a brain wants to fight the Israelis in the Desert. Of course that statement leaves millions in the Middle East qualified as those that might want to try to fight them. Some folk jest never learns.
skep

I'll just respond to that by saying..
Pakistan can 'whoop' Israel as many times over as it wants.And this coming from me, an Indian..
Don't underestimate Iran.
They're almost as strong as Pakistan.
The only thing that they may lack is the intellect and/or know..
Pakistan may be more than willing to supply that.
You think that the Israeli AF is top notch?!
Check out the exploits of PAF pilots that were lent out to the Eqyptians in the Yom Kippur war .You may be surprised..
Israel can defend an invasion..It cannot mount an attack on Iran.. It cannot take out those nuclear reactors.
Maybe loads of crusie missiles and/or B-2 bombers can, but a conventional air raid looks very unlikely.
And saying that AFTER Osiraq, isn't easy but, thats the way it is..

Originally posted by Daedalus3
The amount of missiles Iran has will overwhelm most missile defence systems.

Israel has their own JSFs and ICBMs??!!
And someone said they had a 1MT warhead..
What next? Don't tell me they've already put a man on the moon??!

[edit on 4-3-2006 by Daedalus3]

Israel does have ICBM's www.rense.com...
www.stevequayle.com...

JSf's will be sold to Israel www.jsf.mil...
aimpoints.hq.af.mil...

load your head before you shoot your mouth

Originally posted by urmomma158

Israel does have ICBM's www.rense.com...
www.stevequayle.com...

JSf's will be sold to Israel www.jsf.mil...
aimpoints.hq.af.mil...

load your head before you shoot your mouth

with this kind of fire power i guess Israel can fend off evry single missile that is thrown at it by Iran


Iran should be carefull since not one of their missiles will reach their destination as Israeli AMD can destroy all incoiming misssiles

sarcasem off.

one the JSF has just been produced and put into production so it will be a while before they get their hands on them.

two Israel may beable to stop missiles with its AMD but its not always full proof so it wont be able to stop all missiles thrown at it and Iran have plenty to throw



[edit on 4-3-2006 by bodrul]

Originally posted by Daedalus3
I'll just respond to that by saying..
Pakistan can 'whoop' Israel as many times over as it wants.And this coming from me, an Indian..

Don't underestimate Iran.
They're almost as strong as Pakistan.
The only thing that they may lack is the intellect and/or know..
Pakistan may be more than willing to supply that.
You think that the Israeli AF is top notch?!
Check out the exploits of PAF pilots that were lent out to the Eqyptians in the Yom Kippur war .You may be surprised..
Israel can defend an invasion..It cannot mount an attack on Iran.. It cannot take out those nuclear reactors.
Maybe loads of crusie missiles and/or B-2 bombers can, but a conventional air raid looks very unlikely.
And saying that AFTER Osiraq, isn't easy but, thats the way it is..

pakistan!?!? are u serious the Israelili military has over 400 nukes and the US as their great military supplier dont be foolish once the jsf's are sold to israel they are sinister and probably modify them to carry amraams internally therefore the JSF's would destroy any pakistani fighter jets and air defenses without a doubt Israel already has a powerful and formidable air force i suggest you look it up is better than pakistan pakistan has brely any BVR sure they're getting sparrows but no match for AMRAAMs the AIm 120C has a 45 nm range and the new d model will have 50% more range if pakistan fights with israel the US will give them THAADS patriots and meads to intercept paki bombers and fighter not to mention arrows and JSF's and israel ahs way more nukes pakistans ground forces will bedestroyed true israel has no power projection but if they invaded israel they would be killed by the nukes dropped by JSf's and other bombe not to mention iICBM's

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by urmomma158

Israel does have ICBM's www.rense.com...
www.stevequayle.com...

JSf's will be sold to Israel www.jsf.mil...
aimpoints.hq.af.mil...

load your head before you shoot your mouth

with this kind of fire power i guess Israel can fend off evry single missile that is thrown at it by Iran

Iran should be carefull since not one of their missiles will reach their destination as Israeli AMD can destroy all incoiming misssiles

sarcasem off.

one the JSF has just been produced and put into production so it will be a while before they get their hands on them.

two Israel may beable to stop missiles with its AMD but its not always full proof so it wont be able to stop all missiles thrown at it and Iran have plenty to throw



[edit on 4-3-2006 by bodrul]

true they're not foolproof but if they have nough it will be good to give em a better chance than the iranians and if iran declares war israel ahs a better chance at intercepting them veryone knows they're not foolproof and if u mess wit israel the US will nuke iran and israel will retaliate desteoting them plus you have to remember the US will always back up israel and so will britain ven if u destroy israel iran will be toast literally

[edit on 4-3-2006 by urmomma158]

Originally posted by urmomma158
true they're not foolproof but if they have nough it will be good to give me a better chance than the iranians and if iran declares war israel ahs a better chance at intercepting them veryone knows they're not foolproof and if u mess wit israel the US will nuke iran and israel will retaliate desteoting them plus you have to remember the US will always back up israel and so will britain ven if u destroy israel iran will be toast literally

and you get this asumption from?
in this day and age there is repocations for such acts
no country would use nukes in a first strike mutual destruction. and no one would stand idol and let someone kill millions of people (so think twice on that)

people seem to forget one thing Iran also has the ability to destroy Israel
with bio weapons and long range missiles Israel its self is a very small country.

Israel may have the upper hand in air force and so on but Iran its self have the abilty to punch back (just remember that)

also the US is bogged down in two diffrent countries losing men by the day
you really think they want to get screwed in another war? (maybe the govermeny and a minority of americans)

justr read through past Iran topics about their fire power and so on
i cant be botherd to retype them or get the topics up

dont underestimate ISrael 's retalaition as soon as one ballistic missile is fored it will retaliate with enough to turn iran into a crater and true its a lose lose situation for both countries but i was referring to deadulus's ignorance of israel''s ballistic missiles and upcoming JSF's

due to some news ive heard...

well I also heard elvis is alive and well.

you know better....clean it up.

-DT

Hi guys,

Take a look at the geographical picture and you'll soon realise that Israel's part in the upcoming conflict is to take care of Palistine and Syria while the US and UK take care of Iran.

Russia have done their bit already while China will wait to see what transpires, before moving. India and Pakistan dare not move as this would weaken their defences against each other.

Japan and Taiwan have to be taken into account when talking of China's response; plus Russia will be a little more than interested.

Russia is a puzzle rapped up within a conundrum! What have they sold and who do they see as an enemy - too fractured too call accurately, but they are not necessarily enemies of the US et al.

Bush has been calling in favours; UAE, India and Pakistan to name but three. Naval and Troop movements will be interesting in the next 7-14 days.

Originally posted by urmomma158

Originally posted by Daedalus3
The amount of missiles Iran has will overwhelm most missile defence systems.

Israel has their own JSFs and ICBMs??!!
And someone said they had a 1MT warhead..
What next? Don't tell me they've already put a man on the moon??!

[edit on 4-3-2006 by Daedalus3]

Israel does have ICBM's www.rense.com...
www.stevequayle.com...

JSf's will be sold to Israel www.jsf.mil...
aimpoints.hq.af.mil...

load your head before you shoot your mouth

Looks like I have new cannon fodder here..

Launching satellites means you have ICBMs??!

There's a wee lil' bit about re-entry technology,guidance tech and CEP..

By the logic propounded by that article of yours, every freaking country that has the know-how to launch satellites, has ICBM capability..
I was under such an impression once (ages ago), but its all rubbish..


Countries with launch Capability

According to that article All the countries mentioned in the first paragraph of the above linked article have ICBM capablility, but obviously India,Japan, Brazil do NOT have ICBM capability as of now. And they(India/Japan) launch payloads into space MUCH more often than Israel and much further too.
Actually except for the US,Russia and China, IMO the only other country to have a purely indigenous ballistic missile(here SLBM) is France with their M-45
onwards missiles.
Having the "ability" is VERY different from actually allocating funds/resources and time to such programs.
Then comes the ardorous task of testing, and operational deployment..
You can't just strap on a nuclear warhead to a satellite launch vehicle and hope for the best!!
Hence I seriously doubt Iran's capability with the Shahab-3 onwards missiles as I have stated in a thread elsewhere on this forum, since they don't even have satellite launch capability.
Also as I've said before on this thread, it is impossible for a country to hold 200+ operational nuclear warheads w/o even testing a SINGLE one EVER.
Yes I agree that weapons with kiloton yields that range in single digits CAN be simulation tested on supercomputers, but thermonuclear yields and beyond (somebody was talking about 1MT!!) cannot be computer simulated!!
UNLESS...unless these weapons are not indigenous to Isreal at all!!
And if thats the case then yeah..Maybe Israel can just use a peacekeeper/minuteman..
And about the Israelis getting JSFs;I heard right here on ATS: there was some friction w.r.t. that when the Israelis sold some UAV tech to China..
Don't know what happened to that issue..So as far as I know the Israelis do NOT have JSFs as of NOW..

I indeed DO load my head before I shoot my mouth thank you very much..

Daedalus3

You sure like using smilies

Israel is a fingernail on the map, if the nuclear genie is let out of the bottle in the Middle East then there may be a few surprises when everyone puts their cards on the table. Imo, it would be a scenario of MAD for the whole region, unfortunately.

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by urmomma158

Originally posted by Daedalus3
The amount of missiles Iran has will overwhelm most missile defence systems.

Israel has their own JSFs and ICBMs??!!
And someone said they had a 1MT warhead..
What next? Don't tell me they've already put a man on the moon??!

[edit on 4-3-2006 by Daedalus3]

israel doesnt need ICBM's as long as they missiles to reach iran cns.miis.edu...
www.fas.org...



Israel does have ICBM's www.rense.com...
www.stevequayle.com...

JSf's will be sold to Israel www.jsf.mil...
aimpoints.hq.af.mil...

load your head before you shoot your mouth

Looks like I have new cannon fodder here..

Launching satellites means you have ICBMs??!

There's a wee lil' bit about re-entry technology,guidance tech and CEP..

By the logic propounded by that article of yours, every freaking country that has the know-how to launch satellites, has ICBM capability..

I was under such an impression once (ages ago), but its all rubbish..


Countries with launch Capability

According to that article All the countries mentioned in the first paragraph of the above linked article have ICBM capablility, but obviously India,Japan, Brazil do NOT have ICBM capability as of now. And they(India/Japan) launch payloads into space MUCH more often than Israel and much further too.
Actually except for the US,Russia and China, IMO the only other country to have a purely indigenous ballistic missile(here SLBM) is France with their M-45
onwards missiles.
Having the "ability" is VERY different from actually allocating funds/resources and time to such programs.
Then comes the ardorous task of testing, and operational deployment..
You can't just strap on a nuclear warhead to a satellite launch vehicle and hope for the best!!

Hence I seriously doubt Iran's capability with the Shahab-3 onwards missiles as I have stated in a thread elsewhere on this forum, since they don't even have satellite launch capability.
Also as I've said before on this thread, it is impossible for a country to hold 200+ operational nuclear warheads w/o even testing a SINGLE one EVER.
Yes I agree that weapons with kiloton yields that range in single digits CAN be simulation tested on supercomputers, but thermonuclear yields and beyond (somebody was talking about 1MT!!) cannot be computer simulated!!
UNLESS...unless these weapons are not indigenous to Isreal at all!!

And if thats the case then yeah..Maybe Israel can just use a peacekeeper/minuteman..

And about the Israelis getting JSFs;I heard right here on ATS: there was some friction w.r.t. that when the Israelis sold some UAV tech to China..
Don't know what happened to that issue..So as far as I know the Israelis do NOT have JSFs as of NOW..

I indeed DO load my head before I shoot my mouth thank you very much..

www.fas.org... of course i know they dont have JSF's they wont go to war soon anywayz it will be the US to defeat iran not israel they have IRBM though good for reaching iran and once they have detcted a nuke missile being launch they will launch a few t iran so anywayz both countries would die

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by urmomma158
true they're not foolproof but if they have nough it will be good to give me a better chance than the iranians and if iran declares war israel ahs a better chance at intercepting them veryone knows they're not foolproof and if u mess wit israel the US will nuke iran and israel will retaliate desteoting them plus you have to remember the US will always back up israel and so will britain ven if u destroy israel iran will be toast literally

and you get this asumption from?
in this day and age there is repocations for such acts
no country would use nukes in a first strike mutual destruction. and no one would stand idol and let someone kill millions of people (so think twice on that)

people seem to forget one thing Iran also has the ability to destroy Israel
with bio weapons and long range missiles Israel its self is a very small country.

Israel may have the upper hand in air force and so on but Iran its self have the abilty to punch back (just remember that)

also the US is bogged down in two diffrent countries losing men by the day
you really think they want to get screwed in another war? (maybe the govermeny and a minority of americans)

justr read through past Iran topics about their fire power and so on
i cant be botherd to retype them or get the topics up

true but u forget that the Iraqi war was poorly planned and dont forget as sson as they detect a nuke flying in the air they're not gonn wait for it to hit the ground tey're gonna launch all nukes at iran you dont have to wait for it to hit the ground

u dont necessarily need icbm's to hit iran from israel but u keep ignoring m e wheni say its a lose sloe situation FOR BOTH COUNTRIES they will both destroy each other when thew first few irbms are launched they will be intercepted of course i know they wont be able to stop all but the first few is good enough and good to warrant a retaliation looks like a stalemate for botth countries

Originally posted by urmomma158
true but u forget that the Iraqi war was poorly planned and dont forget as sson as they detect a nuke flying in the air they're not gonn wait for it to hit the ground tey're gonna launch all nukes at iran you dont have to wait for it to hit the ground

read through the posts above and you will see my reply to this

but anyhow Iran would only retaliate with missiles if attacked by Israel
like any soverign nation has a right to that defend them selves

that reply u just quoted is a reply to your reply where you state Iran cant do anything if attacked by Israel

One problem I see in this thread is that many either overestimate Iran or under estimate Iran.
Iran has some high tech equipment, but they are limited in how many they have and their ability to use what they have.
Iran's AF is outdated and the planes they are making are really changes to old Soviet Aircraft, of course they do have the Mig-29's that Iraq flew there, but again, they only have a few of them and maintence, as well as rearming them would be a problem in a war for Iran.

Iran may have plenty of missiles, but the accuracy of those missiles is suspect. Also how well trained are they in their use? How many replacements do they have when they start losing their trained people?

As for Armor, Iran has old Soviet Equipment, plus the tanks they are making which are not battle proven as are the US armor units in Iraq.

As for Naval power, well Iran really is majorly outclassed here. One Carrier Group gives the US an advantage not only on the seas, but also in the air. Iran has subs, diesal, but the US has the ability to remove them in the first shots of the war.

As for Israel, Israel could pull off an airstrike, but it would require US assistence even if only to allow the flights over Iraq. Still Israel would not have enough to pull off hitting all the Iranian Nuclear Sites in one strike.

As it stands now, I do not expect fighting to break out anytime soon over this. I look for Sanctions to go into effect first. Iran does not want this to happen and I think that given the amount of noise and threats they make when the possiblity comes up, they must realize that they will be hurt by them more then they can hurt others by restricting oil flow.

It may even become Iran that makes the first strike if sanctions go into effect, if that happens, then Iran will be in major trouble. Not only cause the US has ample forces in the region to defeat any Iranian offensive, but the US could counter strike and take key areas right away to ensure oil flow in the gulf. Then you would have the EU3 getting into the fight and Russia and China would not get into the mix.

China realizes that they need the west far more then they need Iran, plus by not getting into the fight, they get to see the West spend more and more while they continue to grow. This works to their advantage.

Russia would be hard pressed to back Iran in any fight. Remember they do not have a good history with Islamic Repulics at all, and I don't think they could convince their own countrymen to come to the aid of Iran for that reason alone.