To Masonic Light and All Freemasons

Originally posted by Wind
I am reading a book by freemasons that says that many things are done under freemasonry's name are wrong, and that this name has been taken advantage of for political gains and other gains. i would like to ask , if the greatest architecture the freemasons believe in is not God, as claimed by the book, then who is he?

Could you give us the name and details of the book? Maybe some of us have read it already and can comment.

What do you mean by the phrase ' if the greatest architecture the freemasons believe in is not God'?

Thanks

Hi ,
the book is translated so I will try to retranslate it to English . Its name would be : Masonry Between Divergence and Rootinization. It says that is the work of several Grand Masons.

have you read it?

It says that the greatest architecture of the world was explained by the deviant masons as God. The author asserts that freemasons consider that architecture who is different than GOD OF THE RELIGIONS. cAN YOU ELLABORATE ON THAT?

THNX

[edit on 4-10-2005 by Wind]

Ok - I was just wondering if this was from, a well known masonic author, but I suspected it wasn't. The authors need credibility and unfortunately you haven't even told me who they are so I can't make any judgement on that.

No - I have never heard of this book. All masonic writings are the opinion of the author, and when you tell the book isn't even published in English it makes me very suspicious. If these authors are masons at all it is possible that they are quite irregular (i.e. not masons at all).

Either way, and to try and answer your question, let me say that there have been a few individuals who are also masons who have done some bad things in the past. No different to any other organisation, except of course it it more disappointing in an organisation that promotes self-improvement.

Freemasons all have their own understanding of God before they join freemasonry, and that understanding does not change after joining. Indeed freemasonry encourages members to continue in their own faith. There is no 'masonic God'.

I'm afraid I have no idea what your authors are on, or on about. It may be that their particular brand of quasi-freemasonry believes something different from the rest of us.

I hope that answer helps, as I've struggled to understand the question.

Wind - I'm going to try and track this book down. Please let me have the title, authors, publisher and ISBN code and I'll see what I can do. It may very well be published in English too.

problem is that the authors didn't say who they are. The translator who translated it to arabic is Youssef Doumet. Its name (translated again to english) is stated above: masonry between divegence and rootinization.

OK. Well that will be a dead end then. All I can say is treat with great suspicion information with no verifiable source.

How can you have an annonymous 'insiders expose'??

And does anyone here have any idea what "rootinization" means?

I googled and can only find:

Lemma : When in corpus analysis, I attach several forms (sequence of
alphabetical letters separate by space or ponctuation) on a same unit
the lemma. I have heard about two ways of using "lemme" :
1) More common, It's to merge together differents forms which are
different in flexions such as case, gender and number, or verbs
conjugation forms. You would have one lemma "simulation+" for the forms
["simulation, simulations"]
2) A strongly less common uses for lemma is to catch every forms issued
from a same root. For example in a corpus, it could be usefull to attach
"simulator", "simulation", "simulate" and also "simulators",
"simulated","simulations" and other words to the same unit "simul+".


The 2nd lemmatisation process could be decribe by the term
"rootinization".

Originally posted by Nygdan
And does anyone here have any idea what "rootinization" means?

No, that one escaped me too...

From what Wind was saying he read the book in Arabic but it was originally in another (unspecified) language. Maybe this is a translation problem, but at this stage only Wind can help.

It would also be useful to find out who these 'Grand Masons' are; but as this description is not used in freemasonry they are probably either fraudsters or from some quasi-masonic organisation (some would say there is no difference).

Phrases such as 'deviant masons' and suggesting that masons do not believe in God, leads me to conclude that the book has some strange perceptions of freemasonry. This doesn't mean it might not have anything interesting to say, mind you; but it is rather a pointer in that direction without any more available info.

I am sorry for the inconvenience in translation, I meant by rootinization following masonry documents like they are, with no divergence. By the way trinityman, they say that true freemasonic lodges sshould get out of belief and religions, like everyone follows his religion, they say it is totally wrong to do so, and these are deviant lodges.

And the book didn't say garnd freemasons but someone high in masonry , I think, sorry for inconvenience again

[edit on 5-10-2005 by Wind]

[edit on 5-10-2005 by Wind]

Originally posted by Wind
By the way trinityman, they say that true freemasonic lodges sshould get out of belief and religions, like everyone follows his religion, they say it is totally wrong to do so, and these are deviant lodges.

Again, Wind, I'm finding it hard to follow the meaning in your post. Are you saying that the book says that it is wrong to 'get out of belief and religion' or the opposite? Also, what do you mean by 'get out of'?

I'm sure if we continue to persevere we'll get to the bottom of this

Dear Trinityman
the book says that the greatest architectureo f the universe is the core of freemasonry, but many lodges has forgot about him or just turned him to a christian God or allowed its followers to engage each one in a religion. Although they take some of the bible symbols, they remain out of Belief , these are jusst symbols. Freemasons should think about the architecture and understand how he formed the universe, however deviant lodges has played dirty games trying to get to politics (PS., he says that judeo-christian beliefs enforced in some lodges, turning them into disguised churches as is mensioned, the ones who are playing politics and trying to help Israel in the ME.). Another false, belief, according to the book, is that freemasonry originated not long time ago. The book says the Egyptian builders were masons, leaded by the pheroe and the pyramids still contain signs of the "unification circle" if I translated it well.
regards

Originally posted by Wind
Dear Trinityman
the book says that the greatest architectureo f the universe is the core of freemasonry,

The Great Architect of the Universe (or GAOTU) is the name given in freemasonry to the Supreme Being. Individual freemasons will interpret him differently, but there is no doubt that a loving, moralistic Supreme Being is at the very heart of masonic teachings.

but many lodges has forgot about him or just turned him to a christian God or allowed its followers to engage each one in a religion. Although they take some of the bible symbols, they remain out of Belief , these are jusst symbols

I'm not quite sure what is meant by this. All lodges will follow the direction of their Grand Lodge, but within regular freemasonry (with one notable exception) GAOTU is not specified as the 3-In-1 Christian God - that is up to the individual freemason. There are side orders within freemasonry that 'specialise'; e.g. the A&AR in England is Christian, but these are offshoots to Craft Masonry.

There are organisations who purport to be masonic but allow atheists to join, defining GAOTU in much broader terms. These organisations are not considered regular by mainstream freemasonry.

I don't know what you mean by 'engage each one in a religion', sorry.

Freemasons should think about the architecture and understand how he formed the universe...

Agreed (I'm sure you mean Architect, not architecture)

...however deviant lodges has played dirty games trying to get to politics

There are examples of quasi-masonic lodges (e.g. P2 in Italy) that interfere in the politics of the country in which it is based. This can range from just having an opinion through to active interference. None of these lodges are regular and, despite what they may claim, are nothing to do with true Antient Freemasonry

(PS., he says that judeo-christian beliefs enforced in some lodges, turning them into disguised churches as is mensioned, the ones who are playing politics and trying to help Israel in the ME.).

See above. Any group of people can get together and call themselves a lodge, a church, a charity, etc. One should judge these groups by their actions rather than their words to determine their legitimacy.

Another false, belief, according to the book, is that freemasonry originated not long time ago. The book says the Egyptian builders were masons, leaded by the pheroe and the pyramids still contain signs of the "unification circle" if I translated it well.

There are many theories as to the origins of freemasonry. Most masonic scholars acknowledge the development of the Craft out of operative stonemasonry in the Middle Ages in Scotland and England. That freemasonry has been influenced by what many call 'the ancient mysteries' is IMO without doubt, but that is not the same thing as having directly descended from them.

There were no speculative freemasons in Egypt, despite what some people may tell you. Really, there weren't; and there is no evidence whatsoever to support such a theory. I suspect this is, however, a different thread.

As an alternative to the book you have read might I suggest 'Freemasons Guide and Compendium' by Bernard E. Jones. It often comes up on eBay and is an invaluable source of information on any number of masonic matters.

thnx for clarifications
no this is not the book I read, I have translated it up according to my limitations in English.
They say that in the pyramids there are freemasonic signs. TheP2 is mensioned with disgrace as you said. religions or political ideologies shouldn't take over in the lodges, only the Architect. thnx again

Originally posted by Wind
They say that in the pyramids there are freemasonic signs.

Ah... 'They'.

There are symbols used in freemasonry that are not exclusively masonic e.g. the Triangle, All Seeing Eye, etc. It would be wrong to suggest that finding one of these in a pyramid means that freemasons were there, as they have meant different things to different cultures over the centuries.

Are you is a position to tell us what those symbols are?

No, but I think those ppl are in a position to tell.

Wind, I beleive 3ntyman means, what are the symbols.
These:
external imageexternal image

?? Or different ones?

there is a mension of the compass. few signs are put like the the cubed rock, the star, etc..

Masonic Light,
I have sent you a U2U. Please reply to me about it via aU2U. thnx

Wind,

Please re-send it, I didn't get it, thanks.

did it reach you now, Masonic Light?