Dark forces in disguise??

Greetings!

I recently tuned into an online radio show called "Dreamland" with Whitney Strieber. The interview that I listened to was about "dark forces" that surround occultic practices and so I just wanted to know what others thought about this idea. Though I have not practiced my hand at summoning spirits or anything of that nature, I have had an ongoing relationship(mostly an armchair one-lol!) with magick and occultism. I just never thought of the danger of being attacked by these evil forces before. Is there a real threat out there that I should be aware of? oh: one more thing - in the interview this guy Peter Lavenda kept saying that you need a certain level of initiation to be able to protect yourself.. I just don't get it. To be properly initiated wouldnt someone need to join an school of the mysteries? AND THEN there is all this talk of the dark forces disguising themselves as ascended masters--(erm- I read something onlline about this after I listened to the interview)

Ack! anyway: anyone out there who cares to share their opinion on this??

Hi MerryMistressMarie/

My opinion based on experience with ''magick and occultism'' is not to get involved in the first place....
I use to do seances and call spirits........fallen angels ,rulers of the air....Demons to be exact!

Although my own experiences were not so bad,(scary at times)others that I have heard of were quite disturbing.
If you don't know what you are dealing with, then it's best to leave it alone.......

My opinion on the subject......

helen

MaryMistressMarie -

I assume you are dabbling , or just sniffing the flowers, of this subject? Oh well, it does not matter since you should have this information to think about.

For your information this may be generally said about the so-called dark forces:

Going back only to the 19th century when the subject of spiritualism became popular, there were "dark" forces located on our planet. Their origin is known and their work is disputed. They made any attempt to receive information between genuine spiritual forces and the human mind very difficult and, at times, impossible.

They were not interested in harming or causing the death of anyone, but they were interested in destroying the work of the higher realms on our planet in the name of their own government. They were rebels.

The problem was so severe during the 19th century that all attempts at revelation to man was withheld until the "darker forces" were either imprisoned or brought before the supreme court of the universe.

Accordingly, near the end of the twentieth century, in the fall of 1985, the Supreme Court in our part of the universe declared the dark forces and their insurrection done, finished.

The adjudication declared the following:

All spiritual beings associated with the insurrection on our planet had two choices: 1- re-train for other work and in a sense, they must do community service until otherwise determined; or, 2 - Within a small amount of time, either accept that grave error, evil, and sin was done by these actions or face extinction. Most of the leaders would not accept this offered mercy and the extinction orders were issued. The extinctions were carried out in the fall of 1985 by our calendar.

What is left after the trial of the darker forces?

Mediumship, or for that matter any other kind of transmission communication processes, are no longer subject to the harrassment of the dark forces. They have been abolished after nearly 200,000 years of existence on our planet. None of you can come into contact with them anymore.

However, and this is important for the next few years to be aware of:

There are pockets of left over negative energy that have to be removed. Depending on how sensative you or anyone else happens to be, one can trip or bumble into them and it can be unpleasant. "Unpleasant", means that one can feel depression and a deep imbalance in one's psychic nature.

It is wise before entering communications with the celestial side these days to trust in the indwelling spirit resident in your mind circuit - that is the same circuit you use to communicate to the other side. Request of this indweeling spirit to keep the self protected from the emotional harm associated with these left-over negative energies until they are removed.

Removal of such energy is likely to take a few years, but after that, there is smooth sailing.

I will also say this about contact at this time. Many humans are fearful even before they start. Fear attracts negativity and no such mind-to-mind communication with the other side should be attempted if there is any doubt that this should not be done.

The indwelling spirit in each of us, located in our minds, is always going to protect one against outside forces, but he is practically helpless from our inside forces unleashed by our own fears and trepidation concerning what we do.

I hope this is some help to you as you figure out what to do.



[edit on 29-9-2005 by Aronolac]

Originally posted by MerryMistressMarie
anyone out there who cares to share their opinion on this??

OK. Nothing can scare you like you can. The only Dark Forces to worry about are the ones you bring to the table. If you believe it, it's real. To you. People can really screw themselves up with this stuff. Operant wording is: "screw themselves...".
Just my opinion, and only because you asked.

Aronolac

I appreciate your explaination. I do agree that fear of the unknown or unseen can really do a number on one's mental state. I was mainly just concerned with how to practice a little discernment when it comes to the spirit realm... I do not live in fear of these negative energies and by no means do I consciously invite them in to my mind.. I just want to maintain a healthy distance from them if I have inevitably opened a doorway to the otherworld. You know when you are getting ready to make a commitment to a particular current or spirutual tradition, a lot of thinking is involved.. at least for me, anyway. lol We capricorns tend to live in our heads!
MMMarie

MMMarie -

You sound smart enough to be able to address the problems of becoming good at these communications.

There is not great obstacle to them except probably ourselves.

The greatest thing you can do to my knowledge to prevent finding or attracting to you the negativity left over from the rebellion is to always address (verbally or in your mind) the protecting spirit that indwells you. He really does have the power and the love to see to your wishes safely. He is also the one who is capable of surrounding you with the white light that defeats negativity. In fact, the Indwelling is white light, and is what the angels call the pilot light in each human.

This Gemini wishes Capricorn MMMarie her successes!

Ron

There are evil forces. They hate God and mankind. They use deception and their end goal is to keep you from God and to bring death.

Neither you nor anyone should get involved in this in any way. If you are already involved STOP it immediately.

I totally agree with the above. There is no way to win pursuing these practices. Deception is their way so, yeah there very much are dark forces in disguise. Please stay away from it.

Originally posted by helen670
If you don't know what you are dealing with, then it's best to leave it alone.......

If all of mankind adopted this attitude we would still be living in the dark ages and believe the world is flat. Seriously, exploring the unknown is what allows (wo)mankind to advance. At the same time, if you strap some cardboard wings to your arms and jump off of cliff you are dead. Respect the unknown, research what others have said on the subject but by all means explore it if you have the heart to explore.

Btw, I think this thread existes twice because I already replied to the other one. In brief I said, there is no such thing as black/white magic, it's all about intent. Don't try and harm others or take away their free will and you have little to fear(except as the man said, "Free itself). And again my ussual warming: Don't mess with summonings unless you Understand what you are doing.

vas


[edit on 30-9-2005 by Vasilis Azoth]

Originally posted by Aronolac
MaryMistressMarie -

I assume you are dabbling , or just sniffing the flowers, of this subject? Oh well, it does not matter since you should have this information to think about.

For your information this may be generally said about the so-called dark forces:

Going back only to the 19th century when the subject of spiritualism became popular, there were "dark" forces located on our planet. Their origin is known and their work is disputed. They made any attempt to receive information between genuine spiritual forces and the human mind very difficult and, at times, impossible.

Very profound, this was about the same calendar time [1984] the Sirius vortex was opened our teacher Lazaris tells us.
Thanks for adding another view.hid

mod edit to shorten quote

[edit on 3-10-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

In the 10+ years that I've employed what might be refered to as "Esoteric Talents" I have NEVER encountered ANYTHING that could be construed as a demon or "Evil Spirit".

I tend to agree with the poster who stated that we are more likely to harm ourselves through our on fears and superstitions than we are likely to BE harmed by some disembodied Evil Thing.

Granted, I do not adher to any recognized, or even recognizeable, religion; though I was priviledged to sit in on a Wiccan coven many years ago. I had my fill of religious rituals as a result of enduring as a rather precocious child through 12 years of Roman Catholic education.

As near as I can, or care to, understand it, my employment of the native abilities we Humans possess arises from my understanding of the relationship between Reality vs. Probability.

In what some of my Wiccan friends refer to as "Psychic Majik"; through intent, or "Will-power", I influence the as yet undetermined probalilities of neighboring Realities, or Continuums, to manifest a desired outcome, a Proximate Reality.

Perhaps to avoid the Dark Forces so many practitioners warn of, it is only necessary stay on the "light" side; Just think good thoughts!

Aronolac as much as I find your explanation fascinating I also find it quite crazy. What I find the craziest is the idea that dark forces where sentenced to extinction in 1985 or that they were only 200,000 years old.
I'm not using the word “crazy” out of disrespect but simply because I strongly feel that what you are saying is wrong, and because it is wrong I think it is dangerous; especially as advice put across authoratively to someone considering dabbling in the supernatural.
All I can say to MerryMistressMarie is that there have been many examples (recently and less so) of people who have dabbled in the supernatural at great expense to themselves or their sanity. Now it could well be that the supernatural is just your own psychology influencing your own mind; and that “victims” have simply been messing with their own heads. I don’t buy into that as a complete explanation, but it’s certainly a good one which surely points to real risks. So for a start “dabbling in the supernatural” is dangerous for your own psychology.

I don’t buy into the psychology explanation as “be all and ends all” because I believe that there are real dark forces; and I believe that people who seek them can often find them.
From my knowledge what we call demons could be as old as the universe itself, and perhaps older (if such a thing is possible). I firmly believe that demons tend to be way more intelligent than ordinary humans, and I think they can view us in a similar way we often view animals.
I don’t think all demons are completely bad. In fact I doubt many of them would exist or be nearly as powerful if they were completely so. Many probably have good reasons for viewing us as inferior beings, or being angry with us, and or mankind as a whole.

But the idea of doing a ritual to deliberately and decisively contact them is in my opinion stupid. If they wanted to help you, and if you were trying to be good as a person or in your relationship with god, then they could only help you out in line with that relationship with God.
Certainly regardless of your morality most demons seem only to be able to have anything to do with when you decide to have something to do with them.

So when you do a ritual your protection from your relationship with “what’s right” (in my view God) or your protection from your status as a free born human being is severally compromised. Almost by definition of a ritual, you are going onto their territory.
So don’t expect these powerful, god or bad beings to be particularly kind to you if you do decide to go their territory. Especially if they view as something they can harm, play with or damn.
Because once you go into a ritual these are all possibilities. And after all it’s your fault-it’s your agreement because by desiring an “authentic black magic experience” you have (probably stupidly) decided to meet them, and therefore expose yourself to them. Simple like meeting a bunch of gangsters you are putting yourself in danger by deciding to meet them.

One thing I do agree with you with on Aronolac is the idea that these dark forces are rebels. But what sort of rebels they are is something I don’t know. It could well be that at least some these “forces” have a just purpose in this world. Of course if you believe the bible enough you would believe that they are just Satan’s minions who where thrown out of heaven, along with him at some time during dhe darn of creation.

As a last bit of advise: Apart from having nothing to do with these things in rituals, I would caution you strongly that if you decide to do a ritual anyway that you…
A. Be very respectful
B. Don’t ask for anything from them (remember that than in all probability what you have done by contacting them in a ritual is to also ask and receive something from them, i.e. their communication-attention, ect).
C. Tell the dark force “that it can go” after you have finished communicating with it.
But remember that you are talking to something that is higher than you during you period of conversation at least. It’s “higher” than you because you owe it for responding to your request, and it’s higher than you because you choose out of your free will to contact you. I don’t necessarily mean “higher than you” in terms of closeness to God, I do mean higher than you in terms of unworldly power. Surely you agree, don’t mess with it.
What do you think? That there are dark forces you can have a conversation with (presumably sitting around since the dawn of man), but which can’t harm you, follow you around or contaminate the place where you contacted them with an energy of their own?

P.S In my book an Ouija board most defiantly counts as a ritual. For one thing at least: It has certainly messed certain people up. I often recommend TAPS as a good website for supernatural advice (Trans Atlantic Paranormal Society).

Hello Liberal84

I think we can discuss our differences without being disrespectful as well, and I do understand how differently you view the subject.

First, as you also indicate, there is a right way and a wrong way to approach this controversial area. I am not supporting any willy nilly desire to contact the universe (celestials) without having a very good reason to do so. Mere curiosity opens the door to a lot of disappointment and often misunderstanding so great, everything is dropped concerning being educated about the spiritual life.

Spiritual life involves real spiritual personalities. Eventually, every one of us will work with one or a dozen of such personalities. It is a choice whether that ministry is conscious or un-conscious. Some people prefer to look in the eye those who help them, but that has to be through our personality circuits and not through literal site. That is where imagination and fear come in. Fear happens, but it can be grown out of as most of us who deal with close contact have proven again and again.

I claim no personal authority and do not insist on any belief that is contrary to the reader's belief. That is the reader's business, but we can exchange views and actually learn of other possibilities we may never have considered before. I do, however, have great information that is flooding into our planet even as we speak, and this information is being broadcast with what I certainly would call authoritative sources.

Are you aware, Liberal84, that there is something called planetary broadcasts? There are, and the plan is to make them available to every mortal on the face of the earth when the word to go is given. Then these kind of contacts which have to be 100% relied upon will not carry the full burden to get this information out.

Perhaps what I have spoken of in 1985 is incredulous to you. Probably so, and since there is no antecedent information that comes with that fact, it will be viewed by most individuals as ludicrous. Nonetheless, it is true and as I have reported it.

We, meaning the whole world, are about to experience a spiritual renaissance in the next 5 or 10 years, and what I have spoken of is quite mild compared to what will be introduced as our planet's history. It is my hope that the few things I feel I may mention will be remembered in bits and snatches when the new dispensation is declared and the dust goes up in the air over all the confusion that will undoubtedly occur in our institutions and in our selves.

The young lady that started this thread should be encouraged to intelligently investigate all she feels led to do. Such investigation is a wonderful teacher of what is real and what is not. This world operates on high octane mysticism because we have been led to believe this is how the spiritual world operates. For the most part, it does not operate this way, although miracles do happen, but they are not magic.

People should be encouraged to find a way to center themselves, which is but another way to say, find the calm spot in the self and rely upon that center of calm to lead one into those decisions that will help the material, intellectual, and spiritual development of the individual so involved.

There is a whole world out there forming into groups very quietly to learn to do just this. It is the Teaching Mission undertaken by no other than a whole corp of celestially trained teachers who give lessons to we humans that teach how to anticipate these changes and how to be centered enough not to be panicked by so much change coming.

Not everybody wants to be so instructed, or even believes they exist much less do they think they are important to pay attention to. Such free will choices not to participate are fully respected and no one will coerce anyone to join in with the path to the cure of being afraid of the coming spiritual revisions to our planet.

What I have said is going to be questioned and debated, but until you or anyone can make the connections that allows you to verify information, most will find themselves stuck within a belief system rather than moving within a constructive paradigm of thought that comes from direct contact with the Value Giver.

It is clear you care a lot for people and have experienced enough of the problems that come from what we may call the occult. Your warnings are valuable, but they should not exclude all activity that is natural for people to want.

The middle ground is the best place to be. We are designed for this very possibility or otherwise we would not have the mind connection that allows it. But one can approach contact like a bull in the proverbial china shop. One should at least understand why the contact is important first, and second, that it is entirely safe when purged of one's own fear. Fear is the great spiritual poison we foist on ourselves and one must learn to do without it.

Thanks for your remarks. They do bring into focus the elements of debate that will go on for awhile on the subject of celestial contact.

Ron

Dear Aronolac
I have replied to some of the points you made by creating a new thread at...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Entitled: Should the Government Fund more Supernatural Reasearch and Why Messing in the Occult is Not a Good Idea.

Hope you find it of value, Alex.

Edit/ moved to thread:

"Should the Government Fund More Research into the Supernatural and More Reasons Why Dabbling in Occult"

Reply was posted here by error.

Aronolac

[edit on 3-10-2005 by Aronolac]

To label everything, even in a sense an 'act of God' is to absolve yourself from any involvement as a human being in this world. Acts of God are few and far between - extremely rare. Everything that happens in this world, and the consequent repercussions are due to acts of MAN.

Nature has its own realm, and we don't affect it that much, but if we do, it can usually be discerned an act of Man by the obvious fingerprint that Man leaves on it.

Occult is nothing more than the random toolings of the imagination. If you want to see something, you will... then you will use your brain (which should be used for figuring out reality), to extrapolate and justify reasons in reality for what your imagination just caused you to believe.

You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear, and for many people that live in this very real world, it is anything but reality.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Everything that happens in this world, and the consequent repercussions are due to acts of MAN.

Nature has its own realm, and we don't affect it that much, but if we do, it can usually be discerned an act of Man by the obvious fingerprint that Man leaves on it.

"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travailth in pain together until now" (Romans 8:22, in context of vs. 18-25).

All creation has been affected by sin and mankind has affected the weather because of sin.

Originally posted by MerryMistressMarie

I was mainly just concerned with how to practice a little discernment when it comes to the spirit realm... I do not live in fear of these negative energies and by no means do I consciously invite them in to my mind.. I just want to maintain a healthy distance from them if I have inevitably opened a doorway to the otherworld. You know when you are getting ready to make a commitment to a particular current or spiritual tradition, a lot of thinking is involved.. at least for me, anyway. lol

We capricorns tend to live in our heads!
MMMarie

MerryMistressMarie,

Cultivating discernment is my specialty as a spiritual medium and Solist Mystic.

I agree with a number of people in this thread that there are indeed evil forces at work in the discarnate realms. An indication of that is the major terrorist attacks that occurred in recent years. Demonic spirits work through and around evil people in the flesh, empowering them and giving them energy to help them pursue violent acts to one or more innocents. Rapists and murderers have often reported that they were just listening to the voices in their head that prompted them to commit a heinous crime. Those voices come from people on the Other Side who are on a self-destructive path.

Evil contains the seeds of its own destruction.

Whenever you have Spirit work through you without a highly developed filtration system, there are big problems with accuracy. Channelers and mediums are likened to human telephones. Sometimes, through no fault of their own, they get a bad/crank call.

You can't always prevent a deceptive influence but there are ways to detect if one is attempting to come through with faulty or misleading information.

The easiest way is to close your eyes and clairvoyantly see or sense the Dominant Aura Color of the Spirit or Spirits that are giving you the information. If you perceive anything other than White or Sky Blue -- like Violet, Yellow, Red or Orange -- REJECT THE ENERGY AND THE COMMUNICATION IMMEDIATELY. Wait a while and let the energy dissipate before attempting another spiritual correspondence.

I cover a lot of this in the "twofer" podcast that I had with Brother Amon/Majic.

[edit on 4-10-2005 by MerryMistressMarie]

Discerning Spirits

You of all people probably have access to sources that may have something to say about these so-called "dark forces".

We are receiving lots of confirmation that the "dark forces" have been removed permanently from the planet. When I saw "we", there is a collective of an estimated 150 receivers who have independently taken the same information: the final adjudication per our calendar was the fall of 1985 and they are no more.

In particular, if you are accessing the celestial world, ask for the presence of Abraham - a high official in our planetary government's educational program. He is of the most dependable white-light source anyone can receive, and the fact that there has been this removal of dark forces should be known by everyone.

I would be most happy to receive what reply you would wish to make as received from Abraham, or from whomever wishes to speak to the adjudication of the dark forces, either to my email address [email protected], or even here on this thread if you feel so inclined.

I would be happy to share with you the transcriptions of several celestial individuals who discuss the removal and their comments.

Thank you very much.

Ron

EDIT 04/10/05 to append this excerpt from the education corp under Abraham concerning this issue:

Celestial Teacher:

"This world at this time is poised to receive new understanding, and it is by persons passing on insights that this new understanding can occur on a societal level. You have been taught many things over more than a decade now, but there are common themes which can be shared if done in a thoughtful and reflective manner such that people will be influenced by the idea even if they are not influenced by the process.

"One of the primary messages that will allow further evolution on your world is that the universe is friendly rather than sinister in nature. Spiritual beings with dastardly plots do not exist. A large number of people on your world still reside in the dark regarding this concept. Although it will not come about over night, the sharing of this concept will make inroads toward relaxing the fears of many on your world."

END excerpt



[edit on 4-10-2005 by Aronolac]