Warning about gun shows!

I don't go to gun shows; I purchase my weapons needs from a reliable gun store in town. If I have a problem with any purchase (I never have so far), I know where to go to find the guy who sold me the product.

I was in that store earlier, drinking coffee and discussing the state of the union when I guy came in with a MAC-90 that wouldn't fire. He'd bought it at a gun show.

After the guy left, I disassembled the rifle. Guess what? He bought part of a weapon. The bolt was missing! The good news is, as is, the one round the dummy had left in the magazine is all he'd ever need.

Remember, those gun shows are dumping grounds for faulty weapons, and weapons that might look nice but are weapons that you might not be able to get parts for, anymore. This guy is in luck, as the part missing is one that can be found, but his "bargain" will cost him another 50 bucks or so.

Guns show shoppers; Buyer Beware!

[edit on 26-9-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

Yeah, I learned the hard way doing this as well. I wanted to purchase a handgun for home protection and decided to pick one up at a gun show/flea market. I'm not to gun savvy so I really didn't know what to look for.. needless to say, the gun almost took my life the first time I fired it.

Anyhow, I ended up breaking down and spending a few more on a gun from a store... along with the gun, I get service, they showed me how to dismantle the gun, clean it, put it back together, and to look for wear.

Alot more then the gun that blew up in my face.

Sound advice.

I personally have purchased firearms at gun shows and never had a problem. But I always go with a bunch of friends and we all know a decent amount about firearms and would never buy a gun with something like a bolt missing.

I have never bought from online sites like Gunbroker but im sure that advice would be well used online aswell.

How is this secret?? Shouldnt this be in BTS ??

Weapons forum isn't necessarily about conspiracies.

Most booths at the shows I attend are run by regional/area dealers. I'm always on the lookout for the two types:

a) The ones who are using the gun show as primarily an advertizing space for their store, and want to start a long-term relationship with you. If you ask for an unusual piece, they are quick to give you a business card and assure that they have what you want in stock at the brick-&-mortar address, but they couldn't bring everything to one show. Usually, something like "call the shop and ask for Dale, he's the one who works on the side-by-side shotguns for us . . ."

b) The ones who don't care about their reputation. They expect there to be no follow-up or accountability. They usually try to sell you a "1 of a kind" piece. Which you could get for 20% cheaper if you went to dale's . . .

I have not been to many gun shows, but I know around here its mostly a gathering of small business owners and isnt too shady. Perhaps some bad buys, but overall its pretty good.

If a fella bought a weapon, and didn't know if there was or was not a bolt in it....I can't generate much sympathy. How did he check it at all? No bolt, no way to rack the action. This guy was a walking cash machine.

Buyer Beware indeed.

I get my best deals at shows, tons of cheap ammo too. But then, I know what I'm looking at...and can tell the difference.

Indeed, Army, when I pulled the trigger and it felt "mushy", I knew something was definitely wrong.

The weapon was a "kudzu commando" weapon; with the airborne folding stock - the type of weapon a wannabe would pick up.

I can't fathom picking up a weapon from a unknown, but being that others out here in cyber-world may not look at life as I do, I figured I might better raise the alarm.

I can't tell you how taken aback I was to find out that this is not an uncomon occurance, so I thought I'd better let folks know. According to my gun dealer friend, there are a few unscrupulous people out there who will sell you a weapon without the bolt assembly!

I dont usually go to gun shows to buy guns. I go for reloading supplies. Guns I get from only certain dealers or individuals I know. I also know a bit about guns since I reload for several calibers.
Specific bullets powders and primers is what I go for. Specific empty brass too.
It definitely helps ..to know something about guns as a starting point no matter from whom one buys. Similar to buying a car.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Interesting thread. Im not a gun owner myself, but have fired weapons before at a local firing range. If I may ask a question... I am constantly amazed by how easy it seems to actually obtain a firearm in the USA. Being from Australia our firearm laws are incredibly strict. We are not even allowed to Import those Air soft replica bb guns.
Sorry im getting away from the topic here but what exactly are the limitations on weapon buyers in the USA. Im Assuming Military weapons such as an M16A2 would be off limits but in other discussions on this forum I have heard users say they own AK-47's along with various other military grade rifles. Are there any differences between a civilian AK47 and the military issue. Are you able to just go out and purchase an M16 or similiar battle rifles with just a standard liscence.

By the way Im not interested in owning a gun. Just curious is all. So any information would be greatly appreciated.

Gun laws vary quite a bit from state to state. Much of state gun laws are determined by the demographics of that state.

For example, in the mid-west United States, where hunting is a very common pastime, gun laws are more relaxed, as the people who live in those states are much more used to being in the vicinity of guns. And then there are smaller, more urban states, such as the New England region and Atlantic East Coast states, which are more urban/suburban in nature, which greatly restrict firearms ownership and usage. Some larger cities have city ordanances that prhibit gun ownership within city limits, such as New York City.

And then there are federal firearms laws, which are implemented by Congress and are enforceable in all 50 states. The federal government has volumes of firearms laws and statutes on file which all states must obey, including the prohibition of the ownership of automatic weapons, silenced weapons, and certain large-capacity assault weapons which the government have deemed to be dangerous to the general public.

So, despite popular internation conceptions, there are plenty of gun laws and restrictions in place. The average American cannot simple walk into a store and walk out with a weapon (especially if that weapon is a handgun). Most Americans do not own guns. However, in a free society as ours, crimimals will find a way to obtain that which is illegal, and thus Hollywood-bred misconceptions are born.

Thankyou for the information Pyros, From what you have said, The American gun laws do not seem that different to our own. I appreciate it, clears up a few common misconceptions

Thanks
Red Rose

In Texas, you can apply for a concealed carry license.

They do criminal and background checks, then fingerprint & photo ID. It looks like a drivers' license, with a ton more info on it.

The last time I checked, it cost about 200 for the license, and 200-400 for the 6-week training. It's basically what you'd get at a police academy.

They cover types of weapons, cleaning & reassembly, and then accuracy and dealing with tense situations, as well as gun law.

Texas has had this set-up for 10 years now. In all that time, with probably 100,000 licenses issued, there have been 5 shootings that resulted in criminal charges filed. And one of them was clearly premeditated. Not bad in a state of 20 million people.

Most cops are in favor of the program, and their spouses or adult children hold licenses. Generally, the license holders are the least likely civic element to be involved in crime. Most organized crime types are afraid to apply, b/c of the intensity of the background check.

When the law was enacted, the gun control crowd freaked out, because in TX, if you have a CC license, there's no waiting period for you. You are on record with extensive info about your work and family history, more than is done in a "5 day waiting period background check."

MOST people who buy at a gun show have a CCL, since they can buy anything on the spot. Others have to wait and pick it up next week, which really hurts sales.

The last few gunshows I've gone to, you had to show ID at the door.

Buying a new gun from a gun show really shouldn't have any risk associated with it, but buying a used gun from anywhere is a very risky business unless you know what you're looking at. For example, how many people know how to check for excessive cylinder shake in a revolver, or carry a headspace gauge set around in their pocket - not many.

But if you really want to take a walk on the wild side, try buying reloaded ammunition at gun shows, that's where the truly stupid live.

Thomas that is true in all cases.

My Dad owns a gun store here in Stockton, CA. We went to gun shows all over the area selling guns (quality guns), and if there was ever a problem we took care of it, and made sure they knew how to contact us.

Oh yeah I should also mention that we obeyed all laws. To often we here that guns bought at gun shows are bought without following ATF laws (NOT TRUE)

Just beacuse one person will rip someone off doesn't mean we all will.

But common sense should be followed no matter what, or where you buy anything.

Great point about reloaded ammunition at gun shows. This is why I prefer to load my own. I shoot quite a bit both rifle and pistol. Most of my practice loads for pistol are low velocity for economy and life of my firearms.
I often stock up at the guns shows because you can sometimes get good deals..especially on the last day when dealers dont want to haul alot of that stuff back with them.

Also good point about cylinder shake. Also how many people would even know what a headspacing gague is much less use one or carry one around.

But ..if you are careful and prudent..you can learn intresting things at the shows. Same with the olde timers at the gun range where I go. They are full of intresting tidbits of information. Historical and practical.

I love to look at the historical firearms displayed at many of the shows..books too. Also finely made very accurate .22 rifles and pistols.
A fine piece of wood and machinework showing fine design and workmanship is a pleasure to behold. At a well thought out gun show there is much of this present in the displays.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Red Rose
I have heard users say they own AK-47's along with various other military grade rifles. Are there any differences between a civilian AK47 and the military issue. Are you able to just go out and purchase an M16 or similiar battle rifles with just a standard liscence.

You need a permit for fully automatic weapons, but you can buy the civilian version of many types of military rifles. I could go buy an AR-15 today without a permit or license of any type. Of course they restrict the clip size, but that's not an issue. 30 round clips are easy to find in army surplus stores.

If you wanted to fork out the cash you could even purchase a .50 rifle that could take down a target a thousand yards away with ease. Again, no permit needed.Why you would need a rifle that can penetrate a sandbag 1,000 yards away or 1 inch body armor from 50 yards is beyond me, but hey! This is the United, gun-toting, States of America.

Here's a list of state gun-laws if you're insterested.

AR-15s use magazines NOT clips, arrrggghhhh I'm having an Internet rage attack, GARANDS USE CLIPS, arrrggggghhhhhh. Rappers are not a good resource for firearms related terminology. Just kidding

That firearms law link is incomplete and out of date, this one is used by many as a definitive resource.

www.packing.org

PS - .50BMG rifles are not legal in all parts of the USA

www.cbsnews.com...

[edit on 27-9-2005 by Winchester Ranger T]

Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T
AR-15s use magazines NOT clips, arrrggghhhh I'm having an Internet rage attack, GARANDS USE CLIPS, arrrggggghhhhhh. Rappers are not a good resource for firearms related terminology. Just kidding

That's funny. I never actually understood the seriousness that some people put into the terminology of what to call the thing the rounds, bullets, ammunition (Covered all bases) go into. Maybe this terminology war all goes back to Full Metal Jacket.

"This is my rifle, and this is my gun....."


[edit on 27-9-2005 by dbates]