Abydos Temple Hieroglyphics

I looking at Egyptian hieroglyphics the other day when I came across Abydos Temple in Giza. Alot of sites seem to have images of hieroglyphics which include helicopters, submarines, army tanks, flying saucers, rods and lots of other strange looking contraptions. My first thought was hoax but people are bringing pictures of it back from their holidays. I find it highly unlikely that people snuck in there and carved images in such detail for a hoax.

I hadnt heard about this until I saw it. Does anybody here know anything about it?

Heres some images:





If these are genuine hieroglyphics then the ancient Egyptians obviously had a flawless method of predicting the future or technology such as helicopters have been around alot longer than we know of. The temple is more than 2000 years old.

Those are real pictures, I remember reading about them before, and I think there is an ATS thread about it from several months back. As I recall, there was some 'official' explanation that basically said those shapes only resemble modern images by coincidence. I would hope that Byrd sees this thread, she knows a lot about this sort of thing, and I'll bet she has seen this before.

Wow, even the ancient Egyptians were fans of "Star Wars". Damn, it really did take place a long, long time ago.

This site gives this explenation:

The glyphs are a result of both erosion of the stone surface (evident elsewhere in the temple) and the process of filling in and re-carving the stone to replace some of the original hieroglyphics. The technical term for such a surface that has been written on more than once is a palimpsest. The usurping and modifying of inscriptions was common in ancient Egypt throughout its history. The Abydos glyph was modified at least once in antiquity, and perhaps twice. Some of the filling has fallen out in places where the older and the newer inscriptions overlap, and the result is unique and odd-looking.
...
Read more on the website

With this picture to support their statement

Edit: Don't know why the picture isn't showing... Here's the direct link...
See the Picture

I'm not convinced. Although they make a valid point. The hieroglyphics should be seen in context, and not as pictures of say helicopters... Remember that it's actually a sentence written there... In the correct context the sentense should read something like...

The one of the Two Ladies, who suppresses the nine foreign countries.

Whatever... I'm still not convinced... I think it's some sort of hoax. Or maybe... Err... Who knows!

[edit on 26-9-2005 by Gemwolf]

Nygdan also has an excellent post on the origins and meanings of the hieroglyphs on this page of another recent thread, dealing with out of place artefacts.

Originally posted by DragonsDemesne
I would hope that Byrd sees this thread, she knows a lot about this sort of thing, and I'll bet she has seen this before.

Wait, Byrd is a woman?

Originally posted by Jeremiah25
Wait, Byrd is a woman?

Yes, I am. Always have been.

Originally posted by drinkinlikeafish
I looking at Egyptian hieroglyphics the other day when I came across Abydos Temple in Giza. Alot of sites seem to have images of hieroglyphics which include helicopters, submarines, army tanks, flying saucers, rods and lots of other strange looking contraptions. My first thought was hoax but people are bringing pictures of it back from their holidays. I find it highly unlikely that people snuck in there and carved images in such detail for a hoax.

Good reasoning there: people are bringing back pictures and for a century and more (even when there were helicopters around) and it was only recently that someone decided it was a helicopter.

These are victims of Enthusiastic Over-Photoshopping.

Look closely at this one:

[img]

At the far left is a round circle (sun) and you can see the whole thing is enclosed in a cartouche. Take a look at it in closer aspect and in context:
www.altarcheologie.nl.../Pharaoh's%20Helicopter.htm

What happened was that it was decided to replace the name of Seti I with Rameses II sometime back in ancient history -- rededicate the temple to Rameses rather than Seti. So they had to replace the titles. Rather than recarve, they plaster over the section and carve on top of that... as bits and pieces fell off, you get the strange effect.

(I don't have my texts here so I'm going to do the "quick and dirty" and hope to get to the actual translation later this evening)

Next to the date, we see the year of the inscription and next to that, the bee and the sedge that indicate the title, "Pharoah." So roughly, it translates out to "Rameses, Pharoah, who protects Egypt from the bows of the nine evil forign countries" -- this is part of a formal title (like "Knight commander of the royal navy") known as a "two ladies" title and one that appears

Remember that the Egyptian hieroglyphs are similar to our own letters (one symbol stands for one or more sounds.) So, on the face of a one dollar bill, you see "United States of America" and not "Un(OMG!! --it's the symbol for a phase drive!)ed St(OMG!!! Wild looking UFO!)tes of A(hyperdrive engine!) (Phaser-saber!)rica"

The other cue is that writing of that era was usually illustrated with drawings. If there had been something about UFOs or subs, there would be a huge painting or drawing next to it with the details.

[edit on 26-9-2005 by Byrd]

Erosion my a$$!!!

The probability of erosion actually making a helicopter, submarine, fighter jet and flying disk to appear all together at the same time is ...0.

Who are they kidding?

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Jeremiah25
Wait, Byrd is a woman?

Yes, I am. Always have been.

You start letting them online next they'll be wanting to vote...

Originally posted by masterp
Erosion my a$$!!!

The probability of erosion actually making a helicopter, submarine, fighter jet and flying disk to appear all together at the same time is ...0.

Who are they kidding?

No not your ass...

Also sorry but it's nothing special.

If they had such things, why are there no texts? Why does the text have another meaning? Can you re-translate all the hieroglyphics and give us an alternative view that'll hold up?

You can see the overcarving all over the pampliset if you just know how to read hieroglyphics. I do (rather badly, I should add.)

Here's the semi-original (photoshopped) version:



Now, just look at what was done to the names:
Here's that darling son, Ramses, whose Praenomen is Setepenre Usermaatre


And here's dear old dad (Seti) - Menmaatre to his buddies -- the one whose temple his darling little boy was appropriating for his own glory:


And because my tracing is SO bad, here's what the two cartouches really look like (both nomen and praenomen):


Seti's full name (nomen and praenomen) is Menmaatre Sety-meryenptah and Ramses has a big mouthfull of a nomen and praenomen with Usermaatre-setepenre Ramesse-meryamun

Ramses the Modest's name can be loosely translated as "Powerful in Truth, Chosen of Ra" (and that was his first name) "Ramses - Beloved of Amun" (second name)

Anyway, that's why to Egyptology buffs like myself (and to archaeologists and so forth) that we know it's an overinscribed panel and that part of the old is showing through. And how we know what the rest of the title says.

I hope it's okay if I don't tie up our bandwidth with the rest of the exercise, which was done at that link above. But if you look at the original and look at the many other times this title was repeated (we have other examples), you can very clearly see the overcarving.

Oh yes, and the bee and plant next to the cartouches mean "king of upper and lower Egypt."


[edit on 26-9-2005 by Byrd]

[edit on 26-9-2005 by Byrd]

Although its a very good explanation byrd, I agree with masterp, theres no way erosion could leave perfect carvings of helicopters, submarines, rods, birds and the other engravings on the picture. Its clear that to the left of the rod or fish looking engraving that is meant to be a moth or butterfly.

The carving on the top right of the fish or rod looks looks identical to a helicopter. I the idea of that being a coincidence ridiculous. Thats like saying the pictures of the birds and insects are coincidences too.

[edit on 26-9-2005 by drinkinlikeafish]

My only question is "Where are they?" If the Egyptians had subs, and helicopters, and planes, where are they? There should be SOME evidence found of them other than a carving on the wall. If it was a prediction, how come it's only shown up on ONE cartouch (sorry if my spelling sucks)? Shouldn't it show up in more than one place?

Byrd I can see you know what your talking about when it comes to hieroglyphics. After seeing your last post I have to take your explanation into consideration but im not disregarding the idea, as crazy as it may be, that it is in fact a representation of a helicopter. Something for me to research.

Originally posted by drinkinlikeafish
Although its a very good explanation byrd, I agree with masterp, theres no way erosion could leave perfect carvings of helicopters, submarines, rods, birds and the other engravings on the picture. Its clear that to the left of the rod or fish looking engraving that is meant to be a moth or butterfly.

Erosion didn't leave them.

Seti had a temple. Ramses wanted the temple for himself. Dear Old Dad was conveniently dead. He told his workmen "go in, plaster over dad's name so it doesn't show up any more. Then carve MY name into the stone (and plaster up any traces of dad) and carve MY titles there so that I can turn it into a temple to ME!" You can tell by his name that he was such a modest boy.

They did. So you get a double carving. He erased his dad's other title and replaced it with his new (important) one "defender of the land from the nine foreign countries" to commemorate some of his victories.

Erosion (moisture, sand) caused the plaster to fall off so that you see BOTH engravings -- Ramses' sneaky temple-stealing one and the original to Dear Old Dad.

[edit on 26-9-2005 by Byrd]

My only question is "Where are they?" If the Egyptians had subs, and helicopters, and planes, where are they? There should be SOME evidence found of them other than a carving on the wall. If it was a prediction, how come it's only shown up on ONE cartouch (sorry if my spelling sucks)? Shouldn't it show up in more than one place?

Good point zaphod, I thought of the same thing. There are only a couple of explanations I can think to explain the lack of physical evidence.

1.) It was a prediction.

2.) It wasnt the egyptian people that possessed the technology but an advanced life form which since then has developed means of leaving the planet and chooses to remain hidden from the lower life forms, therefore they destroyed all physical traces of themselves and manipulated history in order to remain hidden to humanity.

The former is slightly more realistic but like you said it doesnt make sense that there would be only one engraving in one temple. Maybe it was a prophecy or dream from the pharoah of that particular temple and was never taken seriously by the others.

Question for byrd.

You seem to have alot of knowledge on hieroglyphics. Out of curiosity how did you gain your knowledge? Did you study anthropology in college or do you do your own research on the net?

I believe this is Byrd's professional field, going by some of the other posts, but forgive the rudeness, as I don't mean to answer for her.

I'd known about the erosion and misinterpretation, but it's nice to see the detailed deciphering, etc. IMPRESSIVE!!!

Originally posted by drinkinlikeafish
Question for byrd.

You seem to have alot of knowledge on hieroglyphics. Out of curiosity how did you gain your knowledge? Did you study anthropology in college or do you do your own research on the net?

Byrd is not really a person, but a machine controlled by 'The Man'. [Who is a Jewish banker -shakes fist-].

Me and Byrd have talked a bit before and from what I remember she is involved in the field and thus has a lot of 'work related' knowledge. Some people are lucky enough to get jobs in subjects they enjoy.

Originally posted by drinkinlikeafish
Although its a very good explanation byrd, I agree with masterp, theres no way erosion could leave perfect carvings of helicopters, submarines, rods, birds and the other engravings on the picture.

Perfect really? I have seen them up close, and I can attest that only by the imagination of those who enhance the image for their wanting to believe that aliens had anything to do with Egyptian buildings can these be equated to modern machines. Let us take a close look this time:Do you see a rotor on the tail of the so-called helicopter? And what clearance exactly does the one rotor have from the tail? How about pilot seating, is there actually a cab, or is it open to the elements? How about the UFO, the midsection is not only visible meaning it is made of at least an opague substance but requires a tailfin to traverse space. Why do you suppose that is?

Then we have the bird, the letter 'P', a 't' and a couple of 'L's' as well, should this mean that the aliens attempted to speak to us in either Roman or English? Maybe Canadian, since I see in the lower right what obviously must be a curling stone. And that submarine, is there a propellor somehere, or is it a yacht?

I followed the link that Byrd posted…

So I’ll buy the erosion / palimpsest swamp gas theory explanation, it seems to be valid. However, that web page stated that If the Egyptians built helicopters Then one would expect to find the required support industry needed to build and maintain helicopters and no such support industry has been found, ergo…

This miffed me.

This is the same type of fallacy I would expect to find off of one of those nutty crunchy crystal gazing pyramid hugging ufo worshiping web pages.

No one is claiming that the Egyptians built advanced aircraft… at least no one on this thread has made such a claim.

Perhaps Egyptians (and other ancient peoples) witnessed such things and incorporated their observations into their artwork and legends.

Both the web page in question and people on this thread have asked a valid question: If such things existed in the ancient past, then where are they now?

Good question.

The ever popular “absence of proof is not proof of absence” comes to mind.

Buggy whips and gaslights used to be very popular…

At the close of WWII there was mega tonnage of military hardware left over, from both Axis and Allied forces… how much of that stuff is still sitting around now?

Five years ago there were a couple of really big towers standing down on Wall Street….

Things go away. That doesn’t mean they never were.