Do the Genocidal Policies of the Jewish Torah dim Simon Wiesenthal's Memory? (see Deut 20)

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
Hey Howlrunner:

Down boy. (Methinks the Lady Doth Protest a Little Too Much...)

I merely asked why Simon Wiesenthal took MONEY from right wing racist zionist torah believing Jews to finance "houses of tolerance" which of course cost MONEY to build.

It would be like a presidential candidate (or any public official) taking money from the KKK or from the neo Nazis.

Why? Why would it be like that? It would be like Silvio Berlusconi taking money from the Catholic church, Tony Blair from the CofE, George Bush from the Baptists or the governor of Utah taking money from the Mormons. Yours is a flawed analogy to back up a flawed argument that is nothing more than character assassination.

He was also curiously SILENT about what Dr. RABBI Baruch Goldstein did in the Cave of the Patriarchs in late Feb in 1994.

Hmmm, who else didn't speak out against this? Why was Mikhail Gorbachev so silent? Why didn't John Major condemn this? Where was Helen Clark's strident denunciation? Why should an Austrian born in the Ukraine be expected to speak about this?

>Personal attack alert<

As for ladies protesting too much. Your use of Shakespeare is evidence that you know a few famous quotes, but little else. In common usage it is the done thing to modify the gender to fit the person the comment is aimed at, but aah well...

As I said before, I have lived in a country that suffered from genocide in the twentieth century, have you? I have dealt with its survivors on a daily basis, have you? I have family who survived genocide, have you? I have seen and touched the tools and results of genocide, have you?

I take great umbrage at your anonymous attack on a man who thought he had lost everything and dedicated his life to serving those who had lost everything.

Your position is baseless and your argument specious.

Simon Wiesenthal was a man known to few people under the age of 50, who did so much more than publicity-seeking, multi-millionairre gloryhounds of the 80s and 90s who do so little for others but demand so much attention for it, and yet all you can do is tear him down.

And call me a dog again and I will become eloquent in a manner you will remember for a long, long time...

Hey Howl-whatever4:

I see that you feel warmly in the matter…still, it doesn’t excuse your rather un-artful dodging of the question posed on this threadlet…

I will assume from all that foaming at the mouth that I must at least have struck a nerve somewhere …

That’s the logical conclusion from reading all those silly red herrings on your last post, which shows that you are still entertaining deep-delusions-of-denial (under the cloak of “irrelavence”) that the inherent racism in the “chosen people” Weltanschauung of the Paleo-Hebrew Torah (and the later oral laws codified in the Talmud during the Middle Ages) is somehow totally “irrelavent” to this whole discussion about how to regard the validity of Wiesenthal’s Self Serving Houses of Intolerance in the 21st century---

To judge from your tireseome, clichéd responses to this argument, it is clear that you are the product of an ancient and heavily greased “zionist propaganda machine”, a phrase you might as well get yourself familiar with, because you’re going to hear a lot about it on threads like these which tend to deal with uncomfortable things like, well…facts for one.

Now… permit me to re-phrase the point of this threadlet AGAIN for you--- viz.

Why did Herr Wiesenthal TAKE SO MANY HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS from so many overtly racist and sexist right wing radical Zionist militant groups within “torah abiding” world-Jewry (including some highly placed persons in the WZO and other racist bigots like like Menachem Mendel Schneerson and Rabbi Elyashiv) to oversee and build all those self-serving “houses of Tolerance” when these very same groups regularly spout to their followers such endearing sentiments as :

“A million Arabs are not worth one Jewish Toenail” ??

(sound familiar? Can you say Meir Kahane ? (may-his-bones-be-dust…)


Who was it, do you think, who taught our Little-Loveable Brooklyn-Born Racist-Rabbi Goldstein how best to use his handy dandy automatic weapon against all those kneeling human beings (whom he called “Amalekites” for some strange reason…) worshipping their God—just because they were praying in a direction which the prophet Hezekiel thought was un-kosher?

And now some of the same vicious orthodox Houses of Tolerance building persons of Brooklyn want to erect a statue in his honour…!
Can you honestly say that Wiesenthal DID NOT KNOW where the money that poured into his organization year after year came from? Do you REALLY think he was THAT senile?

Your specious claims that “ancient texts having nothing at all to do with” Herr Wiesenthal’s monied circle of friends-- as if the “ancient texts” of the Torah aren’t still to this day read week after week after week after week after sickening week to illiterate wide-eyed congregations world-wide, and in several modern languages too---some begin to believe almost every other word of it--especially if they hear it blasted into their ears often and loud enough since childhood—words that smack of the the racial exclusivity, separatism, ethnic cleansing, and brutality inherent in torah abiding zionism, words that fly in the face of the most basic elements of international law and human rights practices.


Again, I have to ask you one more time:

Why are these buildings even called “Houses of Tolerance” in the first place when the persons MOST responsible for financing them are among the modst radical elements of the MOST INTOLERANT and XENOPHOBIC groups on this planet?

Just in case you’ve conveniently forgotten, here’s a sampling from the Torah (which for the generous givers to Herr Wiesenthal’s larger organizations is the “word of G-d” with some kind of specious “divine authority” ) for you to chew on-- just to hold you ‘til dinner time:

"You must genocide them all; you shall make no alliances with them at any time, you are ordered to show absolutely no mercy to any of them. You shall not make marriages with them, neither shall you be giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons."
The Hebrew Torah of G-d: Deuteronomy Chapter 7 verse 2)

If you think all of this is “irrelavent” to Herr Wiesenthal’s Warped Weltanschauung, you might want to pause between foaming at the mouth for a minute and ask yourself a very poignant question:

Why did Rabbi Baruch Goldstein scream all those memorized paleo-HebrewTorah verses from Deuteronomy chapter 7 and 13 as well as those charming epithets found in the xenophobic book of the manic-prophet Hezekiel, chapters 8 and 9 when he did his dirty work with that automatic weapon of his all in the name of YHWH in thet Hebron Mosque in the Cave of the Patriarchs on the morning of Feb 25 1994—this from eye witnesses whom I myself interviewed who were there listening to him rant and rave

(“Go, son of man, and wipe out every man praying, facing the East, saith Yahweh: yea, show no Mercy…genocide them all, every one..!!) ?

And this very group that our charming Rebbe belonged to (including, but certainly not limited to, the overtly racist Jewish Defense League) are the ones building all those Houses of Tolerance for the world to gawk at---with not an iota in them about, say for example, oh, I don’t know, the 28-million religiously-exterminated native Americans whose blood is screaming from the ground even as I write (and contrary to your idiotic pre-suppositions, I DO IN FACT live in a country that is STILL reeling from the effects of three hundred years of Torah-sponsored racial genocide, a fact which I have to bear every single day of my life).

I would suggest you think a little before you start raving again…or I might have to bring you to heel once again…

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
(including some highly placed persons in the WZO and other racist bigots like like Menachem Mendel Schneerson and Rabbi Elyashiv) to oversee and build all those self-serving “houses of Tolerance” when these very same groups regularly spout to their followers such endearing sentiments as :

“A million Arabs are not worth one Jewish Toenail” ??

Could you please provide a source , that quotes a "highly placed person" World Zionist Organization member or The Rebbe saying so?

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS

MOST INTOLERANT and XENOPHOBIC groups on this planet?

which groups are you refering to here?

Onward Christian soldiers,
Onward Buddhist priests,
Onward, fruit of Islam,
fight 'til you're deceased,
Fight your little battles,
join in thickest fray
for the greater glory
of Dis-cord-i-a!

Hail Eris! You guys have fun.



[edit on 2-11-2005 by The Parallelogram]

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
this from eye witnesses whom I myself interviewed who were there listening to him rant and rave

(“Go, son of man, and wipe out every man praying, facing the East, saith Yahweh: yea, show no Mercy…genocide them all, every one..!!) ?

And this very group that our charming Rebbe belonged to (including, but certainly not limited to, the overtly racist Jewish Defense League) are the ones building all those Houses of Tolerance for the world to gawk at---with not an iota in them about, say for example, oh, I don’t know, the 28-million religiously-exterminated native Americans whose blood is screaming from the ground even as I write (and contrary to your idiotic pre-suppositions, I DO IN FACT live in a country that is STILL reeling from the effects of three hundred years of Torah-sponsored racial genocide, a fact which I have to bear every single day of my life).

I would suggest you think a little before you start raving again…or I might have to bring you to heel once again…

Aah, finally, Neoamadeaus, you reveal yourself.

So, this is is nothing more than you choosing a high profile Jew to lash out at, a man who never, as far as I know, took Israeli citizenship and who never lived in Israel.

The dog reveals who he is barking for.

Like so many others on this site, you are able to quote passages of text out of context.

I can do that too:

Jesus wept.

Cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war.

Apology accepted, Captain Needa.

Unlike you, who had the luxury of his parents dying in a climbing accident, my father took his own life.

You played it for her, you can play it for me. Play it, Sam.

This last one I find particularly useful, as you've turned into a broken record, the needle is stuck in that track and no matter how hard the stereo is bumped, it just won't move.

Tell me, when will you start a thread critical of Hamas? or Hezbollah? After all, they do "good" with their schools and hospitals, but also sponsor and carry out anti-Israeli terrorism. Hamas, as pointed out in another thread, is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Shock, horror, a genocidal policy.

Hmm, Torah-sponsored racial genocide. 300 years. Didn't know Israel had been at it that long. Oooh, you mean the Old Testament, right? Which would make the deeds...Christian?..

Tell me, is your outrage based on being a Palestinian or a Native American? Do you have family that survived genocide? Or can you only quote colonial-era grievances?

I used to live in central Australia, and without even travelling to the US I can assure you that what we've done to the various Aboriginal nations is far worse than what happened to the American Indians.

Why don't you try a thread critical of Rabbis with automatic weapons?

Because you need the hook of Simon Wiesenthal to get people in, standard marketing ploy. "Starring Simon Wiesenthal", for about 20 seconds.

The fact is you're a very small person, desparate to make yourself heard. Much like Ian Holm's portrayal of Napolean in Time Bandits, really. You attack a man so much bigger in many htings he did than yourself and justify that attack on the grounds of racism. Whose racism? His or yours?

You say I'm dodging and ducking, using red herrings. No, I'm merely holding up a mirror. If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out.

Again, I ask you, why should Herr Wiesenthal be singled out for failing to decry the attacks of American Rabbis?

How about condemning the Reverend Ian Paisely for his statements about Northern Irish Catholics? Why don't you give us a thread on that?

Why don't you condemn former Lebanese President and Prime Minister General (ret.) Michel Aoun for taking money from Saddam Hussein?

"It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

-Shakespeare

Originally posted by marg6043
Christianity humble beginnings were nothing but peaceful and good.

What about the parts where the Christians wiped out other competing Christian sects? Were those beginnings peacfull and good as well?

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
Onward Christian soldiers,
Onward Buddhist priests,
Onward, fruit of Islam,
fight 'til you're deceased,
Fight your little battles,
join in thickest fray
for the greater glory
of Dis-cord-i-a!

Hail Eris! You guys have fun.

The problem of course, is that they're perfectly content to take you and I with them.

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by marg6043
Christianity humble beginnings were nothing but peaceful and good.

What about the parts where the Christians wiped out other competing Christian sects? Were those beginnings peacfull and good as well?

Until you acknowledge that in the last 100 years atheists behaved worse than anything they allege about anyone else, everyone will merely ascribe these comments to bigotry.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Originally posted by roger_pearse
Until you acknowledge that in the last 100 years atheists behaved worse than anything they allege about anyone else, everyone will merely ascribe these comments to bigotry.

Why would I admit such bigoted nonsense Roger? You got that off some apologetic website.

Atheist states such as communist Russia have committed some fairly unpleasant atrocities over the past century, but I don't think you can blame these on their lack of faith.

The fact of the matter is that humans are the problem, not gods... the latter just make useful scapegoats.

Originally posted by roger_pearse

Originally posted by spamandham
What about the parts where the Christians wiped out other competing Christian sects? Were those beginnings peacfull and good as well?

Until you acknowledge that in the last 100 years atheists behaved worse than anything they allege about anyone else, everyone will merely ascribe these comments to bigotry.

Really?

What about the Reverend Jim Jones?

Or David Koresh?

And there's nothing atheistic about Mohammed Atta and co. They REALLY believe in the existence of God.

Not to mention that "the stolen generation" of Australia was the result of "Christian" policies and the children were often raised in church-run orphanages.

Or the rash of abuse claims made against, but not limited to, the Catholic church.

Do you know anything about the Lord's Resistance Army?

I'm a christian and I sure don't ascribe those comments to bigotry.

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
Atheist states such as communist Russia have committed some fairly unpleasant atrocities over the past century

...so has the US, a "christian" nation. ...so have virtually all the Muslim nations. ...so has Japan. The allegation wasn't about the legislated theology or lack thereof of some state, it was about atheists. Few people in the atheist USSR were actually atheists, just as few in China are actually atheists.

Right, but the people of the masses who retained religion weren't the ones committing atrocities, either.

Religion is just one of any number of straw men commonly used to justify horrific acts. An Atheist state can exterminate life just as readily as a Christian one; the example of the French revolution comes to mind, as do the actions of Josef Stalin and good ol' Chairman Mao.

So, on topic, just because ancient Jews did some things that are awful by today's standards doesn't mean their faith is any less valid (for them) for having done so. I don't subscribe to any of these religions, but I respect their right to exist, and I also believe that the son, so to speak, should not to be blamed for the sins of the father.
I
t is not my place to judge the beliefs of others as right or wrong any more than it is mine to judge them by the color of their skin, and I don't believe that Simon Wiesenthal's contribution to society is diminished by the actions of his predecessors.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by The Parallelogram]

Originally posted by The Parallelogram
Right, but the people of the masses who retained religion weren't the ones committing atrocities, either.

Really? Who pulls the triggers? Who drops the bombs? For that matter, what are you basing the conclusion that the leaders themselves were atheists, or that atheism was the cause of their murderous behavior?

While it's true that Stalin was an atheist, as was Mao Tze Dong (25 million murdered combined), Hitler was not, nor was Truman, nor LBJ, nor Hideki Tojo, nor Clinton nor Bush, nor the Ottoman Empire (50 million just on that one!).

If we are judging based on the willingness to murder fellow humans for personal or national gain, the 20th century had hundreds of theist leaders (including Christians) willing to do this and a few atheist leaders.

IMHO, any leader willing to kill civilians for political gain, be it their own citizens or noncombatants of an enemy, is equally mad.

If you are trying to demonstrate that atheists as a whole have less respect for human life, you might want to investigate the religious stance of convicted sociopaths and see whether they are atheists at a greater rate than atheists in the general population (hint, I already know the answer).

Perhaps we should judge based on the relative level of peace and prosperity within a society? The UK is the most atheist nation on earth, while Indonesia and Nigeria are the least. Where would you rather live?



(for all you eschatologists out there, you might want to check out Israel. It's #4 in the rankings of least theistic nations. 25% of the citizens don't believe in any form of god)



[edit on 3-11-2005 by spamandham]

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
I have only one question, why haven't you distanced yourself publicly from the words of Pope Gregory the Great, who said it was a Christian's duty to kill Muslims in the holy land?

Islam wasn't invented until 150 years after Gregory the Great.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

[edit on 4/11/2005 by roger_pearse]

[edit on 4/11/2005 by roger_pearse]

You are correct.

Errata:

Obviously I meant Pope Gregory VII, I just didn't bother to check my memory against the facts. Now if I could just find that damn quote so I don't look like a complete fool...

Hey Howl4Nothing:

The term is "Erratum."(A neuter singular Latin noun you might as well get used to.)

"Errata" is the plural neuter form of the noun.

But I digress.

You seem to be having some trouble making connexions between the overt genocidal racism in the “Holy” (!) Torah (the textual core of Judaeism) and the larger self-serving “houses of Tolerance” mission of Herr Wiesenthal’s worldwide org, which took so much money from the racist-apartheid-xenophobic right wing elements within world Jewry over the past 30 years, especially the heinous Lubovichers (and others related to their warped Weltanschauung) who seem to willing at times to exploit the atrocities of the Nazi Holocaust for their own purposes.

The larger “Intolerance Conundrum Question” posed on this thread is not necessarily directed against old man Wiesenthal himself but rather against his larger worldwide organization which he headed up by the more radical religious elements of World Jewry, and which was responsible for the construction of all those Houses of Intolerance which were primarily financed by religiously bigoted individuals who make no bones about what they believe--especially the more vocal right wing extremist Lubovicher Rebbes and other persons who have no scruples about where they get their money from or how they get it---something about which the general public is kept firmly in the dark.

But to help you see a little better in the dark when it comes to the validity of all those “Houses of Tolerance” (!) let’s play a little game called …”Follow the Money,”

I onlyh bring this up now, since (especially recently) the covert funding for the greater Wiesenthal organization has been the source of innumerable complexities, contradictions, and cover-ups.

And some of us DO bother to quibble about such matters.

Matters such as the current investigation of Ameriquest Capital Corp. under Chairman Roland E. Arnall, developer and financier who co-founded the Simon Wiesenthal Center in 1977.

As you may have heard, Rabbi Marvin Hier, a top official at the Wiesenthal Center, has received several large cash contributions for the Wiesenthal Center from California Arnold Schwarzenegger, in return for Hier’s giving Schwarzenegger's father clearance from the charge that he was involved in war crimes.—since after all we all know that Arnold Schwarzenegger's own father was a member of Hitler's bloody SA stormtroop in Austria.

This kind of quid-pro-quo (or Cash for Silence) is called Blackmail.

And Simon Wiesenthal’s larger organisation has not been above such tactics in order to raise money any which way they can over the past 30 years or so to finance their worldwide Houses of Intolerance Building Campaigns.

Well, imagine our Shock and Awe.

Thinking persons (if they are presented with the facts) will immediately pause and wonder if there could be perhaps SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE of SO-CALLED TOLERANCE…and may well wonder if there were perhaps any hidden agendas at work.

Which is exactly WHY I have introduced this question on this Threadlet, and left it deliberately open ended:

I would like to hear a coherent answer to it from a larger audience—if there is one…And I have not heard a coherent answer from you or anyone else so far. Just a lot of mindless How Dare You’s, which is becoming most tiresome…

Again, let me ask the Question (and we’ll leave the Blackmailing tendency of his organization’s Torah Abiding Fundraisers out of this discussion, for now at least)---

Should we regard Wiesenthal’s Tolerance House Building Schemes as in any way hypocritical in view of what it says in the Torah about the best ways to exterminate the Goyim ?

This whole issue clearly still bears further discussion viz. the wider issue of Tolerance of Difference in the 21st century, which subject generally is coming under so much attack in recent months, especially in the US, due to the present Administration’s stance on such matters, for example).

Now listen very carefully and follow the Bouncing Ball…

At its most basic, this discussion boils down to the racist Chosen People Weltanschauung (espoused in the Torah and its related xenophobic writings which many so-called believers hold as “the word of God” even to this day) and the contradictions inherent between that impossibly racist World View and any conception of "Tolerance" in any meaningful sense of the term.

The two ideas simply CANNOT co-exist.

And people who believe that it CAN co-exist have a Giant Blind Spot that they deliberately walk around with so they won’t have to look at it square in the face.

Few persons in the US are willing to say anything in public about this whole mess (despite all the grumbling you hear set at a much lower volume) and especially about the pernicious double-standard that is applied to say the actions of the “religious right” among the world’s Jews (and many, especially in the US press, even are loathe to criticize even secular activities relating to the state of Israel---but that is another matter for another thread, I’d afraid.).

This hesitation on the part of say the corporate sponsored News Agencies to voice an opinion publically against the whole idea of the impossibly arrogant Chosen-People-Weltanschauung is also rife among the so-called “fundamentalist Christian” set who manipulate the same Weltanschauung to their own advantage, mainly applying to themselves for example as The New Israel…

Yet the inherent racism imbedded in the (albeit textually conflicting) copies of the Hebrew Torah has even percolated down to modern schismatic “Jewish” movements in late antiquity (like early Nazorean Messianic Christianity, for example-- from which circle the so-called “Gospel of Matthew” seems to have emanated) where the “chosen people racism” is at the bottom of many overt sayings that are even placed (albeit in bad Greek) into the mouth of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean (“Jesus”):

Yet few “bible believing Christians” are able to even begin to make the connexion here—or even to admit the man was a Jew at all, much less a Royal-Daviddic Rebbe with his political agenda, as well a good deal of home-grown race-prejudice of his own to boot (being a child of his time and place like anyone else born under Foreign Occupation).

In fact most persons who style themselves as “bible believing Christians” that I have met also have a similar “Giant Blind Spot” when it comes to seeing the inherent racism in their own (partially goyim-adapted) religious tenets & general Weltanschauung, simply because they have not bothered to read around their own texts very closely to gain a wider worldy context, or dare not see what is in fact before their very eyes—because it goes against the grain of the Believe the Bible at All Costs Propaganda they’ve been exposed to since childhood.

I can probably guess that your own apparent Giant Blind-Spot on this subject (witness all the mindless non-sequiturs on your last post) is somehow linked to the fact that you’ve admitted to belonging to a very similar sub-set of “blind-leading-the-blind” --who have their own Tendenz to worship (we won’t go as far as to say Cannibalise) Crucified 1st century Galilean Daviddic Seditionists who like to wield Swords and Cut Ears on Mounts of Olives hoping for Miracles of Angels to save him, screaming overtly racist verses like e.g

“The Times of the Goyim are Completed… Believe the Good News of the Coming Kingdom…!”

Or

“These be the Days of Vengeance of our God !”

And who was certainly not above shouting other overtly racist epithets as is found in the Greek text of say “Matthew” chapter 15 (which incidently is even more racist in the Greek, if you have the time to study it…)

You remember the story (or maybe not…) where a Non-Chosen-Syro-Phoenecian-Gentile (“dog”) came to the Good Rebbe for help with her dying daughter:

“And the disciples told her to go away.

And Iesous said to her, ‘The Son of Man was sent O-N-L-Y to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel…”

Her repeated pleas for help for a healing for her daughter lying in exremis were met with a sneer:

“Since when is it right to take the Children’s Bread out of their mouth as throw it to the DOGS under the table?”

The term “dogs” is the same charming phrase applied to Gentiles in the Dead Sea Scrolls corpus as well, many of which were still being copied out while our little lovable Rebbe was still walking around examining the Tyrian northern border of his so-called “kingdom”.

Of course, modern day Christians are rarely pointed to uncomfortable and highly inconvenient racist verses like these, (but which close reading will show that there is a lot more to the early Church story than meets the eye---as all those non-publishing hiders of the racist Dead Sea Scroll corpus well knew back in the 1950s which cast persons like “Iesous” in shall we say a rather inconveniently Un-Universal light…).

But since you are unwilling to see even basic connexions here, you might well think all of this 1st century Nazorean ranting agains unclean goyim “dogs” in the Nazorean gospel is neither here nor there…

As I said…you seem to have a slight problem making connexions and drawing conclusions from evidence…but that is no excuse for you, or others like you.

All I ask is that people open their eyes, and don’t be afraid of following the evidence…wherever it leads.

Now see if you can step back and try to answer the actual question posed on this Thread.

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
Hey Howl4Nothing:

The term is "Erratum."(A neuter singular Latin noun you might as well get used to.)

"Errata" is the plural neuter form of the noun.

But I digress.

Yes, constantly. There were two errors there. If you can be bothered to look closely enough.

since after all we all know that Arnold Schwarzenegger's own father was a member of Hitler's bloody SA stormtroop in Austria.

Do you even know what the Sturm Abteilung were? Do you know the difference between SA and SS? Which one wore brown shirts? Which one had a death's head? Which one answered to Ernst Rohm and which one answered to Heinrich Himmler?

Yet the inherent racism imbedded in the (albeit textually conflicting) copies of the Hebrew Torah has even percolated down to modern schismatic “Jewish” movements in late antiquity (like early Nazorean Messianic Christianity, for example-- from which circle the so-called “Gospel of Matthew” seems to have emanated) where the “chosen people racism” is at the bottom of many overt sayings that are even placed (albeit in bad Greek) into the mouth of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean (“Jesus”):

Yet few “bible believing Christians” are able to even begin to make the connexion here—or even to admit the man was a Jew at all, much less a Royal-Daviddic Rebbe with his political agenda, as well a good deal of home-grown race-prejudice of his own to boot (being a child of his time and place like anyone else born under Foreign Occupation).

Oh. My. God. Did you all hear that? Jesus was Jewish!

No, really? I mean, being born to Jews in Gallilee and being interrogated by the Pharisees...You mean he wasn't a white, Anglo-Saxon with blue eyes and blonde hair? I renounce my membership and demand my money back.

Ahh, so my religion, which preaches, at its core, "Love thy neighbour as thyself", "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" (tautological, I realise) and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" is racist and genocidal.

This is also the religion which illustrates these concepts through the parable of the Good Samaritan.

As I said…you seem to have a slight problem making connexions and drawing conclusions from evidence…but that is no excuse for you, or others like you.

See above.

As for the original question. It is stated in the title. I adressed it.

Simon Wiesenthal preached tolerance and hunted genocidal war criminals across the globe in the 20th century. How does a book thousands of years old dim that memory?

Now you're trying to separate the issues.

You simply don't like the fact that you can't "re-educate" me. But that's okay, neither could Mao. Or John Howard.

The semi-trailer transporting my Karma interstate just flattened your dogma.

Hey Howl:

Just a quick Question, since I don't have time this morning to elaborate much...but we'll go into more detail later, so stay tuned...

How do you square the racist-zionist sentiments placed into the mouth of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ("Jesus") as expressed in the Greek of in Matthew chapter 15 (e.g. the racist treatment of the gentile "dog" woman or later in the infamous "ear cutting episode on the hill" which inconveniently is found in all 4 gospels) with all that "Love Thy Neighbour as ThySelf" stuffaroo?

You don't suppose that our little loveable Rebbe "Jesus" (who according to your logic, just happened to be executed for armed sedition against the Maiestas of Rome during a 100th Anniversary of an Invasion and during a major Feast...) was perhaps, maybe, talking about persons only WITHIN his own community with all that love dovey "brother" stuff, do you?

It's called the old US v. THEM Weltanschauung.

("Only to YOU is given the MYSTERY OF THE KINGDOM...to ALL THOSE OUTSIDE everything must remain in Riddles....")

That is the same tired message of this whole Warped "Chosen" Weltanschauung bigotry which is still found among the present day right wing "orthodox set" of the Jews (as it was among the "pious" Dead Sea Scroll sect to judge from their warped writings as well as the contemperanous earliest "Christian" Nazorean communities in 1st century Palestine...most of whom were wiped off the map during the Jewish Revolt in AD 66-72, with only the non Palestinian Greek Speaking Gnostic and "Greek speaking Pauline churches" left standing to promulgate a slightly more gentile friendly message ---but not entirely without its own bigotry: e.g. Paul's mantra "To the JEW FIRST and only THEN to the GREEK...")

Th is inherent zionist-bigotry is firmly embedded in the entire Weltanschauung of the earliest Christianities...whether you care to look at it or not...

On another note, maybe we should write a little notelet to Herr Schwarzenegger himself and ask him to tell us (from the horse's mouth as it were ) a little more about dear old Daddy's EXACT affiliations with his sordid Nazi past, just to set the record straight once and for all---I mean SA and SS were different groups after all !

And then maybe we can find out how much BlackMail Cash he had to pay the "extortionist" Rabbi Marvin Hier to "donate" to the Wiesenthal organisation just so the word wouldn't get out tooooo much (preferably expressed in US dollars, but Austrian Schillings would do just as well in a pinch... )