Iraq: Brit Soldiers Dressed As Arabs In car Packed With Explosives Captured

Well to Quote your source "we don't know whether the police, for instance under threat of their own death, handed two soldiers over or what was the degree of collusion," Reid . So your point is mute and again I would ask, Is coalition forces opening fire in arab attire standard practice? just askin.....

And to further your source states

"Brigadier John Lorimer, commander of the 12 Mechanized Brigade in Basra, said in a statement that he did not know why Iraqi police had not handed the two soldiers over to multi-national forces, as London says is required by law."

which I believe was best addressed by Nygdan,

"The occupation ended a long time ago, the coalition remains at the request of the Sovereign Iraqi Government, not the occupation authority, not the provisional authority, but the Free Iraqi Government. Those cops were police officers of the Free Iraqi Republic. There is absolutely no excuse for british special operation agents to fire/i] upon them. None that I can think of, short of them being fired upon first. If the iraqi government requested that they be released, well hell, they don't even have the authority to do that, they're just the central government, not the law, not the whole state. I haven't seen anything saying if the central government permited this to happen or not, tho it sounds like they might've. These two guys do not necessarily get the protections afforded to soldiers, inspite of whatever agreement the central government worked out with the coalition. They were out of uniform, and they shot at the authorities. They don't get to get broken out of jail, short of these local authorities being anti-government warlords."

and as for them being anti-government warlords that has yet to be proven.


[edit on 20/9/05 by redmage]

news.bbc.co.uk...

The Iraqi government has launched an inquiry into events surrounding the arrest of the British soldiers on Monday, both thought to be members of the SAS elite special forces.

Iraq's interior ministry ordered the police force in the southern city of Basra to release the soldiers - but that order was ignored.

The British Army confirmed the troops had been handed over by police to a Shia militia group.

u can read the whole article. im goin to bed. hope this helps ya.

A warning to car drivers (in Arabic) May 11, 2005:

www.albasrah.net...

globalresearch.ca...

“A few days ago, an American manned check point confiscated the driver license of a driver and told him to report to an American military camp near Baghdad airport for interrogation and in order to retrieve his license. The next day, the driver did visit the camp and he was allowed in the camp with his car. He was admitted to a room for an interrogation that lasted half an hour. At the end of the session, the American interrogator told him: ‘OK, there is nothing against you, but you do know that Iraq is now sovereign and is in charge of its own affairs. Hence, we have forwarded your papers and license to al-Kadhimia police station for processing. Therefore, go there with this clearance to reclaim your license. At the police station, ask for Lt. Hussain Mohammed who is waiting for you now. Go there now quickly, before he leaves his shift work”.

The driver did leave in a hurry, but was soon alarmed with a feeling that his car was driving as if carrying a heavy load, and he also became suspicious of a low flying helicopter that kept hovering overhead, as if trailing him. He stopped the car and inspected it carefully. He found nearly 100 kilograms of explosives hidden in the back seat and along the two back doors.

The only feasible explanation for this incidence is that the car was indeed booby trapped by the Americans and intended for the al-Khadimiya Shiite district of Baghdad. The helicopter was monitoring his movement and witnessing the anticipated “hideous attack by foreign elements”.

The same scenario was repeated in Mosul, in the north of Iraq. A car was confiscated along with the driver’s license. He did follow up on the matter and finally reclaimed his car but was told to go to a police station to reclaim his license. Fortunately for him, the car broke down on the way to the police station. The inspecting car mechanic discovered that the spare tire was fully laden with explosives."

[Mod Edit - Put quote into context. PLEASE add your own opinion/thoughts to any post you make. Do not just post quotes. Thank you, Jak]

[edit on 21/9/05 by JAK]

o yeah very good source Arch, very reliable unbias source that tells it all. makes u wonder if its making this up because they dont believe Sunni Muslims would commit such crimes against their own Muslim brothers and sisters even though we have seen in the past of rivarly between Sunnis and Shiites.

Originally posted by deltaboy

u can read the whole article. im goin to bed. hope this helps ya.

I did. Reread my post.



[edit on 20/9/05 by redmage]

Now, what has been deliberately avoided by the mainstream TV and Satellite stations is the reference [1] to allegation from the Iraqi police, that the British soldiers were planting bombs. Turkish and a few other media outlets also reported that the Iraqi police allegedly found bombs in unidentified cars owned by Britons.

So the facts are, the British soldiers were caught wearing Arab dress in a civilian car, armed, may have been carrying bombs, shot the Iraqi soldiers when approached by them, later the British government in desperation stormed the prison to get them out; clearly they were on a secret mission. It was secret because it would be too embarrassing to conduct openly in an area that is supposed to be the calmest with no insurgency. Given the facts, the only plausible explanation is that the undercover soldiers were engaged in counter-insurgency operations. This incident may well prove to be another Abu-Ghraib, confirming the strong rumours of counter-insurgency operations, particularly the bombs exploding in the markets and mosques, away from coalition and Iraqi forces that would benefit no one, except the coalition forces.

www.iraqwar.mirror-world.ru...

Originally posted by deltaboy
o yeah very good source Arch, very reliable unbias source that tells it all. makes u wonder if its making this up because they dont believe Sunni Muslims would commit such crimes against their own Muslim brothers and sisters even though we have seen in the past of rivarly between Sunnis and Shiites.

If you don't like the source ignore it.

It is on topic, and more than a few might like to see it.

Would you rather I started a new thread for each article about this???

[size=30]socialistworker


Iraqis have accused British special forces of planning a terrorist attack on Basra.

Sheikh Hassan al-Zarqani, a spokesperson for rebel Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, told Socialist Worker that the two undercover soldiers seized by Iraqi police last Monday were armed with explosives and a remote control detonator.

The soldiers were disguised as members of Sadr’s militia, the Mehdi Army. The arrests sparked protests after British troops backed by tanks attempted to free the soldiers from an Iraqi police station.
...........
“What our police found in their car was very disturbing — weapons, explosives and a remote control detonator,” Sheikh Hassan said. “These are the weapons of terrorists. We believe these soldiers were planning an attack on a market or other civilian targets, and thanks be to god they were stopped and countless lives were saved.”



www.socialistworker.co.uk...

[edit on 20-9-2005 by ArchAngel]

[edit on 20-9-2005 by ArchAngel]

Originally posted by Nygdan
aphod58
Personally I think this was an intel operation gone bad.

You have absolutely nothing to base that upon.


That would be why I started out with PERSONALLY I THINK. Because that is my OPINION on what happened.

Wonder if it's something like Operation Phoenix they were up to. I'd be surprised if counter-insurgency wars really have changed that much since Vietnam or the Malayan insurgency.

-koji K.

[edit on 21-9-2005 by koji_K]

I havent bothered reading the 10pages here, so apoligies if this has been answered

But from my understanding it says they broke them out of jail because they believed militia were holding them?
But if a militia was holding a jail, full of..... well militia, then doesnt that put a question mark over it all?

why would malitia be in charge of a jail holding militia

They weren't AT the jail. They were at a SAFEHOUSE that was operated by the militia. They were originally taken to the jail, but most of the police force has been infiltrated by the militia. The local police chief says he only trusts 25% of the current force.

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by cargo
Syrian Sister, I would post a multitude of photos of dead Iraqi insurgents dressed in blue jeans, white Nikes, and a variety of coloured jackets (covering there ammunition pouches) if it wasn't against TOS to display such pictures.

I have also seen an Iraqi insurgent kneeling in the middle of the road aiming an RPG at Coalition forces (you cant see which country it was) who gets shot through the head. He was wearing a white shirt if I remember correctly. Definately no black.

I am on the fence a lot here. I see things both positive and abhorant from both sides. But in this instance, you shouldn't be too sure of yourself.

So - it's allright for British Soldiers dress as Arabs to mix among population, but it's not allright for the Iraqi Insurgents to do that?

I thought only "Terrorist Savages" use civilan clothing to mix among population?

Are you saying that British Soldiers are also "Terrorist Savages"?

That's the same Double Standard Rule as it is in Prison Camps, such as Abu Gharib:

It was NOT okey for Saddam to torture and rape and abuse prisoners - but it IS okey for the US to do that, since they are inprisoning nothing but "Terrorist Savages", right?

So, that's the Excuse used to Justify those Actions?

Hmmm, I wonder whats next...

I am waiting for you to put some more words in my mouth.

NEW INFORMATION.

THE TWO SPIES WHER DRESSED AS MEHDI ARMY RESITSANCE FIGHTERS.

“Why were these men dressed as Mehdi Army?” Sheikh Hassan said. “Why were they carrying explosives and where were they planning to detonate their bomb?

“What our police found in their car was very disturbing — weapons, explosives and a remote control detonator,” Sheikh Hassan said. “These are the weapons of terrorists. We believe these soldiers were planning an attack on a market or other civilian targets, and thanks be to god they were stopped and countless lives were saved.”

www.socialistworker.co.uk...







I guess the socialist worker was right about the black uniforms. That's standard mehdi army.

So answer me why where a couple of brits, firing at civilians and iraqi puppet police?

If the police where resistance infiltrators, why would they chase down a car of what looked like resistance fighters just like themselves?

Why did they have explosives in the car.

It's the psy-ops team. They have been too many going on in iraq, the odds are, one of them would be cought eventually.

Its over for them. They do this to iraq, and this did to ney work on sempteber the 11th.

Agent Smith

Did they have some girl scout cookies in there too? It's ammusing what you consider light arms, THERE LOOKS LIKE THERE IS A GATLIN GUN IN THERE!

That box with the white sticker on it with the wires hanging out look awfully suspicous, and who's to say what is in those big black backpacks?

I agree that i am no expert to identify much of it, but are you? I can go buy what the iraqi puppet police though, who where actually there and saw these things.

Well if i'm melodromatic agent smith, then you are an understating cover up master .

Luxifero

I REMEMBER. And Agent Smith doesn't remember, because it wasn't his people that where being bombed.

---------------

Don't you all find it odd how on most western news sources they didn't cary the story that the two spies had this equipment?

Most stories didn't even cover the fact that the basra police was accusing them of these things.

I can only name two sources that Carried any mention of the accusationg at the time.

This ones says they had mines.

Link

The car was also searched and mines (ready to be placed on roadside)

and arms were seized.

news.xinhuanet.com...

The two soldiers were using a civilian car packed with explosives, the source said.

Now wheren't some of you saying these sources where too small and obsecure and that they shouldn't be trusted because of that?

I'd rather trust the little guy than the big guy.

--------------------------------

They are lying to us, and their lying to you. They are killing us, and they are killing you too. It's time that we the people defeat them, the illuminati.


[edit on 21-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]

[Mod Edit - Trimmed Link]

[edit on 21/9/05 by JAK]

To the people who come into this thread claiming it to be overhyped, I remind you that you are on a conspiracy site and that this is an ideal conspiracy topic.

I also suggest you shut up and go bother a different thread.

First of all, WHERE are the explosives? There weren't any in that picture you showed so where are they? Second, They were SAS. The SAS is probably rated as THE top Special Forces unit in the world. If they are going to shoot at someone, ESPECIALLY in a crowded marketplace, they're NOT going to miss. So explain to me how they managed to open fire on a crowded marketplace, and NOT kill a single person.

So now if you go out in a black shirt you're hiding as an insurgent? Remind me to throw away all of my black shirts.

Zaphod58.

You said.

They weren't AT the jail. They were at a SAFEHOUSE that was operated by the militia.

Why do you dismiss anything that an iraqi says as opinion and speculation where as when an american british official says something you take it as fact?


Notice that there are no images to suggest that this is true.


well let's look at the images that we have. We have to captured brits in civilian clothes, we have pictures of riots, we have pictures of a completely devasted police station and crushed police cars, we have pictures of explosives.

We don't have any pictures of any raid on any Mehdi army who you claim had captured these men. Why isn't there any pictures of the house they where supposedly kept in? Why are there only pictures of them in the police station.

Will such pictures ever come out? If so, wouldn't they have come out already?

i bet it'll take a month before such photos are holiwood produced. if in fact they ever come out.


THe puppet police have a different story, and their story, is supported by the images.

“The soldiers drove a tank into the police station and threatened to kill the police officers if they did not hand over the two terrorists,” Sheikh Hassan

said. “It is only then, to save any further loss of life, that the men were released.”

RED MAGE

we don't know whether the police, for instance under threat of their own death, handed two soldiers over or what was the degree of collusion,"

INDEED! but threat of death by british forces it seems.






police cars destroyed

WHICH BY THE WAY, The lying American/BRITISH officials INITIALLY DENIED.

UK denies storming Iraqi jail to free soldiers

www.abc.net.au...

AND EVEN YOUR OWN SOURCES SUPPORT THE FACT THE TWO MEN WHERE AT THE POLICE STATION.

When British officials apparently sought to secure their release, riots erupted. Iraqi police cars circulated downtown, calling through loudspeakers for the public to help stop British forces from releasing the two.
www.washingtonpost.com...

They called them to come defend the police station. Not to come defend some psue-do safe house, which you have not shown any evidence of existance


how can you belive something which constantly lies, and distrust something that always turns out right?

If those particular Basra police, who arrested the british spies where actually working in the resistance.

Then tell me why would they chase and stop a car which looked like it had fellow iraqi resistance fighters in it???

-----------------------------------

ALSO It wasn't simply the black shirts, it was that they where wearing black wigs, arab style scarfs, and beards. An obvious attempt to look like iraqies in the mehdi army.

And sever al people where wounded by their random spray of fire.

I don't think their intention was to kill with a gun, but with a bomb, shooting and wounding just to look like gun flayling terrorists with no regard to civilian life.

----------------------------------

Everyone seems to be forgetting the civilians injured in this.





They have a right to be angry. Wouldn't you be?

[edit on 21-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]

I'm not denying what the Iraqis are saying. I'm actually looking at the different facts as they come out and forming my opinion based on what I KNOW to be true.

Point One. They are SAS.

The First three weeks of Selection is held mostly in the Brecon Beacons and Black Mountains in Wales. Soldiers are expected to increase their weight in their bergens (rucks) and distances will also become greater. If a soldier fails a test more then twice is RTUed(Returned To Unit). The soldier is allowed to repeat the course again if he is willing. One of the most notorious parts is the "Fan Dance". This is a march over the Brecons. It should take about 4 hours to complete. Another part and probably the most famous, is the Long Drag. It is held on the last day of the three weeks. It is about 40 miles over the Brecons. The soldier willl now be carrying a 55 pound bergen (if it is under weight a DS will make sure you get the proper weight). Remember this doesn't include water and food! The passing times range from 20 to 24 hours to complete this course. Although TA members get a little slack (about 30 min.). If the weather is good try to get in under 20 hours.

At the end of Selection, maybe 10% of have passed. On two occasions recruits have been found dead in the Brecons
www.specwarnet.com...

I suggest you read that to get a little bit of understanding about the SAS. If an SAS member shoots at someone, the odds of them missing, are very small. Especially with a large crowd of people standing packed in an open market.

From the same page:
On January 22, 1991, an 8 man team (codenamed Bravo Two Zero) was dropped deep behind Iraqi lines.The team was compromised the day after it was inserted and tried to escape west to Syria; 100 miles away . The team became split up. They endured the worst weather the region had experience in 30 years . Of the original eight-man team three were killed and four were captured. One man managed to make it across the Syrian border and to safety, a journey of 180 miles, on foot. Four members managed to steal a car and drive to within eight miles of the border. Hitting a military checkpoint, they left the car (as well as the dead guard) and ran for the border. In the mad flight to the border three SAS soldiers were killed. Two men were killed during fire fights, one was providing cover fire for other members of the patrol.The other one was killed while trying to steal a car from a couple of Iraqi soldiers. One member died from hypothermia.One man managed to get within 2-3 miles but the remaining four SAS member were captured and tortured. In their flight it is reported that this eight-man team killed around 250 soldiers before they were killed or captured.

Now maybe you can explain to me how an 8 man team can kill an estimated 250 enemy soldiers,while on the run, but two men from the same unit can't even manage to kill more than one or two police officers despite shooting into a crowded marketplace. If the point was to kill civilians as is claimed, then they did a horrible job at their mission.

Point two. The mysterious explosives.

You displayed a picture of the "explosvies' taken from the car. Where are they? If you're going to have a car bomb, you're going to want AT LEAST 2-300 pounds of explosive, if not more.

Mines? What mines. Here are a few images of different mines.

www.sensatech.com...



Do you see anything resembling that in the picture? I sure don't. I see radios, and electronic gear, but I sure don't see 200+ pounds of explosives, or even land mines. Come on, where are they? I'm sure not going to take ANYONES word that they were there if they can't back it up with proof.

Point three. The jail situation.

The two soldiers were taken to the jail after being arrested. Other soldiers broke into the jail, but oddly enough, there were no soldiers there to rescue. Hmm, seems odd to me.
And then there is this quote from the Chief of Police himself in Basra...
The chief of police in Basra admitted yesterday that he had effectively lost control of three-quarters of his officers and that sectarian militias had infiltrated the force and were using their posts to assassinate opponents.
Speaking to the Guardian, General Hassan al-Sade said half of his 13,750-strong force was secretly working for political parties in Iraq's second city and that some officers were involved in ambushes.
www.guardian.co.uk...

As far as them not being in jail here are just a few quotes...
"We understand that the authorities ordered their release. Unfortunately they weren't released and we became concerned for their safety and as a result a Warrior infantry fighting vehicle broke down the perimeter wall in one place.

"Our guys went in there and searched it from top to bottom in order to go and recover our two soldiers who had been detained.

"They weren't there unfortunately but we did obtain intelligence that pointed to where they were. We then launched another operation to recover them, from a house in Basra."
news.bbc.co.uk...

UHuh

did you read what i wrote in the above? Because it actually answer most of what you posted.

Unfortunately it looks like i'm going to have to repeat myself a bit.


YEs yes, the SAS are experts, but when their driving by police and civilians at high speed and shooting randomly inorder to look like gun flayling terrorists and not expert marksmen. Then you can understand why thank god, no one died that day.

Atleast only because the basra puppet police chased down the car and captured them, who knows how many they would have killed if those mines where planted.

As i wrote above "I don't think their intention was to kill with a gun, but with a bomb, shooting and wounding just to look like gun flayling terrorists with no regard to civilian life."

--------------------------

Your sure you don't? Why just because the mine was coloured black in the picture?

Now who's claiming to be a weapons expert?

As for your quotes regarding them not being in jail. I will repeat what i said.


Why do you dismiss anything that an iraqi says as opinion and speculation where as when an american british official says something you take it as fact?

Just because a british official said that, doesn't make it true, isn't that the same sentiment you whold when iraqies speak?

Certainly there are no pictures to support his story. But there are pictures to support the iraqi part of it, the destruction of the police station.

If they raided this mysterious safe house, shouldn't the pictures.


And you still didn't answer the question, if it is as you say that those particular police where resistance infitrators, then why did they chase down a car of what looks like fellow resistance fighters?


[edit on 21-9-2005 by Syrian Sister]

You may be right about the safehouse, but the point is that we just don't know for sure. However, I just took a look at the picture of all the "explosives" you posted. After blowing it up, and taking a good long look at it, we have.....

Extra magazines for their guns.
The guns themselves.
What COULD be a LAW rocket, although that one is hard to tell.
Several pieces of electronic equipment.
Hedgeclippers/bolt cutters of some sort.
Several radios.
Belts.

Hmm. No mines. No large amounts of explosives that would be required for a car bomb. I may not be an expert but I know enough about what mines and explosives look like. I had enough training to be able to recognize different types of explosives for a previous job, and a mine is VERY distinctive looking, and isn't going to be mistaken for anything else.