NEWS: Chavez: U.S. Planning to Invade Venezuela

The US should invade Venzuela as soon as possible to ensure that democracy is re-estrablished and that the nation resources are managed properly, e.g. oil doesn't go to China.

Originally posted by DrWisdo
The US should invade Venzuela as soon as possible to ensure that democracy is re-estrablished and that the nation resources are managed properly, e.g. oil doesn't go to China.

Oh yeah, split another Nation 50/50 so we can have another Civil War and even more terrorism.

Operation Balboa: NATO war games simulated attack on Venezuela

How did it end?

Since the documents in our possession only cover Air Force operations, with frequent allusions to land and naval forces, it's logical to assume that Operation Balboa ended in "victory," the attainment of the proposed objectives, security in the White country, and consolidation of the central Purple government after the liquidation of the VLF forces. source

In that sense, several analysts don't discard the possibility of a US invasion of Venezuela, and argue that the NATO "War Game" conducted in 2001 under the name Operation Balboa is part of the northern power's war plans against Venezuela (testimony of National Defense Council Secretary, General (ret.) Melvin Lopez Hidalgo). However, historian Samuel Moncada notes that the US confrontation against Venezuela could happen through economic sanctions, and not necessarily a military invasion of our nation. source

Hugo's evidence is it was a NATO war game in 2001 and is just now coming up since he aired his grievances at the UN.

Originally posted by Odium
............
Well they did with Castro...a fair few times in fact.

That was in the 1960s Odium.....and do I have to remind you it was on the time of a democratic president?.... Not only that, but if you would have brushed up on your history a bit, you would have learned that at that time the US signed and agreement with Russia never to invade Cuba, as long as the Russian nuclear missiles were taken away from Cuba...among some of the things they signed.

Originally posted by Odium
I don't see anywhere, where Hugo Chavez has actually said he thinks "Castro" is all-that. I've seen him say it about the Cuban people...but then I guess this'll just be like the people who claim he said Saddam is "like a brother" to him, not the fact he called OPEC Members the Oil Exporting Nation's Arabic Brothers...

That's probably in part because you don't speak Spanish, hence you can't hear him speak in his native language, and because English speaking news services do not post everything that Chavez says....and the ones that write everything he says are portraying it as something that is good for the people....

Chavez keeps claiming that he is not going to attack anyone...yet he has said that it is time for socialism to be on the offense..... Isn't being in the offense attacking?....

Here is a quote of his that goes against what is normally portrayed about him in the western media.

It is the moment of offensive, of the masses, of struggle, of battle. It is a new moment we have now and we don't know if we will have another moment later, we don't know if we will have time. I believe there is not enough time to wait 50 years for another moment so advantageous like this one to advance in the global struggle against imperialism, against imperialist hegemony and for the creation of new paths, the opening of new paths.

Excerpted from.
www.mltoday.com...

Now tell me again that Chavez does not want to attack the west.....to attack the US....

In that same speech he gave, he mentions something that the other dictator, castro has said.

I don't think we have much time. Fidel Castro said in one of his speeches I read not so long ago, "tomorrow could be too late, let's do now what we need to do." I don't believe that this is an exaggeration. The planet will disintegrate, society will disintegrate, the environment is suffering damage that could be irreversible, global warming, the greenhouse effect, the melting of the polar ice caps, the rising sea level, hurricanes, the terrible social occurrences that have shaken life on this planet.

Excerpted from above link.

This is the most idiotic thing I have ever read.... The "socialist revolution" is not going to stop the forces of nature, and yes global warming is in great part a cyclic event, and even thou human activity has probably sped it up, I doubt that the "revolutionaries" are going to stop driving cars, stop transporting food using oil or change any of the other human activities which is spewing chemicals and gases in our oceans and the atmosphere.

He is giving an empty promise, one he knows he cannot keep, but uses it as a means to instill urgency and necessity for the "revolution."

castro at the beginning of "his revolution" in Cuba, proclaimed that he was a socialist and that the changes he would bring would benefit the people.... That was total BS, and it continues to be BS.... The people in Cuba are suffering because of that "revolution" and because of the socialist/communist ideology.

Chavez is using pretty much the same tactics castro used to get the farmers and those who have never tasted what "the socialist revolution" does to a country and it's people, to want more...to demand for more.

He gives them empty promises....at the end they will have a lot less than what they had before socialism/communism completly takes over and when Chavez has total control over Venezuela. This is exactly what fidel did.

You still think that Chave doesn't think "all that" about fidel?...

You don't think that Chavez' socialism is Communism?... Let's continue to see what he says in that speech...

I remember that when I was in prison, I read an interview by Commandante Tomas Borge with Fidel Castro from 1989-90. In the midst of the collapse of the Soviet Union, in the midst of the collapse of the socialist camp.

Excerpted from.
www.mltoday.com...

Chavez is calling the "supposed former communist country" a "socialist camp."

If anyone thinks that Chavez does not want to make Venezuela a communist country, you are delluding yourselves...and if you don't think that Chavez is calling for the violent overthrow of the "Capitalist system in the world," which includes most socialist countries nowadays, which are a balance between socialism and Capitalism, you are once more delluding yourselfs.

Those who have seen what the "socialist revolution" does, know the truth about the empty promises that dictators use to distract the masses and to brainwash them into believing their lies.

No government is perfect, and I doubt any government will ever be perfect, but Capitalism is 1000 times better than the "socialist revolution/communism" that Chavez, castro and others want to bring to the world.

Let's see exactly what Chavez has in store and what he, alongside some others, want to bring to the world.

We are faced with a new threat; we don't have time to lose. We need to arm ourselves from now with a spirit of the offensive, enough of being defensive, the best defence is attack! All the military strategies indicate that a war is never won on the defensive, you can pass to the defence to win time, this is valid in military wars, political wars and including in relationships this is valid?

Only on the offensive do you win the war, do you win the combat. What is necessary is to know how to utilize the moment, it is necessary to evaluate and create conditions. According to my criteria, we are in a moment for an offensive, we need to unleash it at a world level. I believe it has been unleashed, we need to orientate it, co-ordinate it better and we will have much better results, hopefully more sooner than we expect.

Excerpted from above link.

Do you still think that Chavez alongside fidel and other "socialist revolutionaries" don't want to attack the west, to attack the US and any country that is Capitalist?.....

Pretty much every country in the world is Capitalist now, or they are using Capitalism to stay afloat, even "revolutionaries" are using Capitalism to stay afloat, because their own system would only bring chaos to most people except those in power, but that's exactly what they want.

I see many people in here proclaiming a NWO is in store for us, but very few see that this NWO is being brought by those that want "the revolution" to take a hold of nations, and subjugate them to their tyranical rule, like so many have done in the past, and are doing even today. Just to name a few....Lenin, the CCP, the Kremlim, castro, and now Chavez.

So again, i ask....how many people think that Chavez does not want to attack the US and other Capitalist countries?......



[edit on 17-9-2005 by Muaddib]

Just so you know I do speak Spanish, I studied it for 7 years so I have a good enough grasp of what he is saying in his speeches.

They agreed with the U.S.S.R. never to invade Cuba, the U.S.S.R. is no more so the treaty that they would have signed becomes void once the Nation dissolves - I’m sure you know that though?

I believe it is time that we take up with courage and clarity a political, social, collective and ideological offensive across the world.

As per-normal you miss out the type of Revolution the person is talking about and try to make out as though it’ll be a violent revolution when in fact it isn’t. This is your problem Muaddib, you are so blinded by hatred for any sort of “Socialist” System or Leader you forget that the ‘Grass Routes Revolution’ can come about through a democratic process.

You even go as far as to make out that quoting Castro on Global Warming some how makes it as though he is a fan of him. Did you not think that it would be wise to relate the speech to the Host Nation? This is often done by politicians, in fact it was something Tony Benn would often do. You also make it as though the quote is only about Global Warming, when I do believe it would be about all the problems we have brought about - over fishing, farming, etc. Which in true Socialism [Remove your focus from Stalinism and Marxism for a moment] would in fact bring under control. Also many Nation’s nearer to Socialism I.E. Sweden, has a high level of public transport use, stronger Government regulations on chemicals, etc. In fact in a report I recently read by 2015 China will be the leader in the use of Alternative Energy with roughly 1/5th of all power generated by it but in your World I assume this never happens?

The “Socialist Camp” was a Political Term used to describe “Eastern Block Communism”, I don’t see him saying he wants to follow Stalin’s example of Socialism in his speech but instead you attempt to make out as though he does.

I also don’t think I said he doesn’t want to turn the place into a Socialist Nation, it is clear he likes Socialism over Capitalism but it is also clear he won a democratic vote and the people knew this. People I know in Venezuela knew this before the election so it is the will of the people and sorry to inform you, but that is democracy.

Originally posted by Odium

They agreed with the U.S.S.R. never to invade Cuba, the U.S.S.R. is no more so the treaty that they would have signed becomes void once the Nation dissolves - I’m sure you know that though?

Have they tried invading Cuba?..... no

Originally posted by Odium
As per-normal you miss out the type of Revolution the person is talking about and try to make out as though it’ll be a violent revolution when in fact it isn’t.

As per normal those who are part of this movement tend to try to disguise the true intentions of such revolution.

BTW...weren't you the same Odium that kept saying he agreed with violent protests in the last protest that happened in Britain and was covered in these forums?.... Now you want to claim it is just a "peacefull battle" and people like yourself do not preach violence?....

Chavez statements are exactly what they say. He and his buddies, along with a few people in these forums, are asking for violent confrontation against those countries that are Capitalist.

[edit on 18-9-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Regenmacher

I think you don't know me too well, and implying "again" is pure horse puckey.
[edit on 17-9-2005 by Regenmacher]

Regenmacher

Only the first portion of my long post was addressed to you. The rest of it was to the general thread. No, I don't know you at all - My comment 'again' was based on the convoluted reasons behind the war with Iraq (once) and now the hostile aggression toward Venezuela (twice). Not you specifically but the US.




[edit on 18-9-2005 by nikelbee]

Originally posted by nikelbee
[ My comment 'again' was based on the convoluted reasons behind the war with Iraq (once) and now the hostile aggression toward Venezuela (twice). Not you specifically but the US.

My belief is that the US is fighting for energy reources and a strategic postion, and will continue to do so as demand for oil exceeds supply. Whether it's morale or ethical has little say in a war driven economy, even if the media wants to cry impassioned pleas for the little guy.

I don't condone corporate thievery and murdering foreign nationals to accomplish such felonious acts, but that gambit has been played since recorded history...to the victors go the spoils Machiavelli style.

I am a realist, and I see if the US doesn't secure oil resources it will undergo economic collapse, famine and insurrection. We are a bankrupt debtor nation.

Today, we can play armchair general and roll dice to pretend who will die and will live, but when it comes down to the wire would you fall on your sword?

Sincerity erodes rather rapidly when death comes knocking and you have mouths to feed, so I see Chavez has a right to be worried and the wolves are hungry.

Actually, no I never said violence as a first option.

In fact, my stand point was that violence can be used once the Government's refuse to acknowledge the will of the people. Remember the Revolution in America? The Parliamentarian Revolt? List can go on...

That was what I was fine with, but made it clear I wanted it to start out as peaceful. [As I have said before I would rather nobody dies but sometimes people have to.]

And they don't need to invade Cuba, the trade sanctions instead are doing their job - starving the people.

Rubbish, rubbish and more rubbish. Are we so far gone as to down this road too?

This a great story and I think it has/will get attention but I'm trying to understand where the reality is -- within it?

Dalllas

Originally posted by Dallas

Rubbish, rubbish and more rubbish. Are we so far gone as to down this road too?

This a great story and I think it has/will get attention but I'm trying to understand where the reality is -- within it?

Dalllas

Chavas is looking at removing all control of the Oil in Venezuela from the outside Nation's and businesses and being state owned. All profits going back to the people.

He has also made his views clear on Capitalism and Bush as well as the War on Iraq and the current American Administration's foreighn policy so it is likely. He is also an elected leader which is something that isn't good for the administration.

He stands a chance of being taken care of like all world leaders do if the American Government think they can get away with it. After all they have a history of this already...

Apparently the rhetoric is now more subdued. I was hoping to find a news piece about whether or not Chavez has handed over the documents he claimed he had to ABC yet, instead I found the following:

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Saturday that he would attempt to improve his relations with Washington, which have been rocky in recent months.

"Sometimes I make mistakes, I tend to respond to any official from the government of Mr. Bush who verbally attacks Venezuela," Chavez said during a speech at a Manhattan church, his last public event in New York before heading to Cuba to meet with his close ally Fidel Castro.
...
He acknowledged that he has occasionally "gone too far with words" when responding to U.S. officials who criticize his government, and he said his criticism of the Bush administration has sometimes been misunderstood as attacks against the American public.

Source: Chavez Will Try to Improve U.S. Relations, AP

-koji K.

Originally posted by Odium
Actually, no I never said violence as a first option.

Riiight.....

Originally posted by Odium
That was what I was fine with, but made it clear I wanted it to start out as peaceful. [As I have said before I would rather nobody dies but sometimes people have to.]

Odium, you said that you agreed with what those morons in Britain were doing, destroying people's properties, and public property the people have to pay... because according to you, the people weren't heard..... You should have said your revolutionary people are not heard which do not make up all the people or even most people in England.

Originally posted by Odium
And they don't need to invade Cuba, the trade sanctions instead are doing their job - starving the people.

What in the world do you know about Cuba?.... NOTHING

There is enough infrastructure in Cuba to feed the people, but castro sells most of the food that is harvested in Cuba to other countries, to help other "revolutionaries" and not the people who need it in Cuba.

The Other Cuba-American member that we have in this forum ( i think her and me are the only ones but i could be wrong) and who is a liberal, has agreed in the past with what I said. The people in Cuba are starving because of castro, and his "revolution", not because of the US.

You are just trying to hide the facts as to what the "revolution," you love so much, does to people and to countries.


[edit on 19-9-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Odium
Chavas is looking at removing all control of the Oil in Venezuela from the outside Nation's and businesses and being state owned. All profits going back to the people.

Riiiight....like every other country that has gone through the "revolution" has done when the state owns everything?......

Originally posted by Odium
He has also made his views clear on Capitalism and Bush as well as the War on Iraq and the current American Administration's foreighn policy so it is likely. He is also an elected leader which is something that isn't good for the administration.

Yeah, he made his views clear of what he, alongside some others who are cheering for another "revolution" have in store for the world and every country that is Capitalist, WAR until their "socialist camp" rules the world....

Originally posted by Odium
He stands a chance of being taken care of like all world leaders do if the American Government think they can get away with it. After all they have a history of this already...

If he is trying to do the same, you think the US would stay with their hands crossed and wait for his little "revolution" (read war against Capitalist countries) to reach the US?

Yes, they export a lot of food:

Source
Exports - commodities:
sugar, nickel, tobacco, fish, medical products, citrus, coffee

Last I checked you can't live off of fish and if you check they import food. Just so you know the trade sanctions are doing more harm to Cuba than Castro does.

So where is all the food they are exporting?

Is it not common knowledge that the United States would make a much better export partner than Russia or China would? In fact that would allow America to gain more control over Castro...but well just let them die.

If I have no knowledge of Cuba, you have no knowledge of the problems in the United Kingdom which I was at and pointed out what has happend on several occasions. Also like I pointed out before, if they bothered to listen to the people those riots would have been avoided and the ones in question were part of the "Make Poverty History" campaign which well a lot of people [world over] seemed to back.

If his Revolution becomes what the majority of people want then should it not be what they get? Democracy and all...if it isn't what they want there is no need to worry.

Oh yeah, if I know nothing about Cuba, you also must know nothing about China and in turn should stop posting on topics about that Nation.

Originally posted by DrWisdo
The US should invade Venzuela as soon as possible to ensure that democracy is re-estrablished and that the nation resources are managed properly, e.g. oil doesn't go to China.

I think Venzuela has the right to choose whom they sell their oil to, America isn't the boss of the world ya know.