9/11 investigitation : "stranger than fiction"

Whats hilarious is the amonut of time that invested in these type topics on 9/11. I would dare to challenge that there are probably already a quite extensive list of topics within ATS about 9/11 and the "ka'zillion" different aspects of it.....
How many more are we going to go through, within the 'almost' two years since 9/11, that cover a possible 'another' angle....geezus....that damn 'well' ought to be drying up pretty soon!

regards
seekerof

What amazes me is how fast all the less intelligent members of this board are willing to throw blame around. The uneducated author of this lengthy drivel uses an account by one witness on a rooftop of "dancing israeli army veterans".

1) The lawyers says they were taking pictures. If any of the assholes reading the story were from NY they'd realized about two-thirds of people with a view were taking pictures.
2) The claim is that "ONE of the neighbors who saw them called the police." It's amazing how idiots can base world theories on an unsubstantiated claim of one "eyewitness".
3) To be fair, let us say that these 5 did that. What does that mean? Five people in the US who are Israeli represent the Israeli government? Does the fact that video of partying residents of Gaza were shown on tv that night mean Palestinians were behind this? No it does not.
4) How did we get from a woman calling about 5 middle eastern men, to "the israelis". I wasn't aware you could judge what country someone was from by their "middle eastern appearance". Perhaps they wore signs on their back saying "Israeli Army Vet happy about 9/11"
5) With even less transition suddenly the brilliant author begins to refer to them as "Israeli Agents". Before that they were called "5 boys".
6) Claiming these people to be Agents and then babbling about them being busted with boxcutters is the biggest load of horse # i have seen in my life. Firstly, mossad moving from exploding cell phones, and poisoned umbrellas to boxcutters is funny in itself. Secondly, boxcutters as the weapon of choice of the hijackers is a real fun way to throw blame at other people at will.
7) His evidence of the "Israelis celebrating" is a photograph of a white van with no visible occupants. He puts this in contrast with people reacting to the tragic events. This is just laughable propoganda that judging by responses here, works very well on the weakminded.
8) He attempts to refute any anti-semitism charges by including the phrase "Including many american jews). Way to cover the bases idiot.

8 points on the first segment of this diatribe of trash. If you want me to continue I'd be more than happy to.

Agreed, the author makes sum jumps. The way this article is written is not important, the accumulation of evidence in one essay is whats important here. All these little things that would otherwise be dismissable, have all been collected and presented in one go, and it really makes you question it all so much.

You can photo shop it all you want, but both of the photos are at different angles, one person is obviously fat and darker skinned

In response to this. The photoshop effect merely highlights how they have a different nose and facial structure.

Segment 2:

1) Author immediately sets the tone of his entire article by bringing up such ideas as the "Zionist Mafia".
2) Author mentions a group called Neturei Karta, but apparently does not have a clue what it is. They are a small group of Hasidic Jews, primarily of the Satmar sect. The Hasidic Jews believe that if god wants to return the jews to Israel, he should do it, and they should not do it themselves. The Neturei Karta took this a step further to the point where they gave financial support, and support in numbers to groups that were attacking Israel. As a result of THAT, they were disowned by the greater Hasidic bodies. Don't you dare tell me they were kicked out because of being against Israel, because if the author wasn't such a #ing fool he'd know that THE WHOLE GROUP of them is against the state of israel, they just don't support it's enemies either.
3) Author states "What we need to understand is that the Zionists played an important role in dragging the USA into that bloody European war" referring to World War 1. Over the next paragraph he takes every singles recorded historical account of world war 1 and blames the entire thing on a group of jews. Very impressive fiction... very impressive.
4) He writes about the entire holocaust and the entire world war 2 being a result of a Jewish led boycott of germany in 1933. First I've ever heard of that, and I think he needs to understand that pogroms and other things of that nature against jews were going on before that time.
5) He claims that the US only became involved in World War 2 because of the evil zionists, apparently neglecting the world events in 1941 that led to American entry. Oops! Must have been a while since he opened a real book.
6) With absolutely no historical evidence he claims that today's jews are not real Jews. Many people have proven lineage to the tribes of Levi, Juda, and Benjamin. Yes the other 10 (there are indeed 13 proper tribes due to Joseph's split into Menasse and Ephraim) are unaccounted for due to the diaspora but the descendants of those three have never had a problem with who they were. This fellow seems to know better though, with no historical evidence.

Segment 3 shortly.

This is very disturbing. Scumbags! I am at a loss for words, although I shouldn't be. This world will never rid itself of filth.

I'll actually quote you again, because you have obviously muddled your opinion. At first reading this article, like so many other sheep on here have done with the 9-11 crap before, you automatically ASSume that this is the way the gov't has done it. Because someone finds a conflicting photo people are ready to cry redrum at the government. That's all i was trying to say.

Like Seekerof said, there's TONS OF THESE TOPICS. Probably ones that deal with the same thing.

I am giving the article a full read (unlike most of the members who posted before me in this thread). It is obvious from many of their postings that they glossed over it and missed out on a lot of things. I don't care how he phrases things, it's the fact that uncorroborated crap becomes evidence when it's what you want to hear. That's what bothers me. I will continue deconstructing this point by point after a brief meeting across town, starting with the Third Segment of his article. "America becomes the Zionist's whore"

My post had nothing to do with the supposed images of bin Laden. My disgust was directed towards the POSSIBILITY that these people could have been involved and the FACT that some scumbags, whomever they may be, were involved. I strongly believe the U.S. Government played a role in 9/11 and I don't mean in the cleanup. Do I have any real evidence? No. BTW, this is the first 9/11 post that I've came across. I don't normally enter these sections, but it was in the 'most recent posts' column. Thanks again, goregrinder. It's been a pleasure.

The pleasure is all mine, trust me. You should try looking up some older posts about 9/11 sometime.

This stuff was never "what i wanted to hear". And I've said that some of what he says cannot be considered as evidence, but there are so many unanswered questions here, so many strange occurances and unbeleivable coincidences. I'm anticipating your opinion once you have read through it.For your information, I did not just gloss over it. . . .

Oh in my comment about people acting like brainless sheep I was not referring to you. I was referring to people who read a few lines and hop on the bandwagon because this matches theories they've heard or read about. Without verifying anything in it of course.

I dont see the anti semetic elements youre talking about.

That would be like calling a person who shows the evils of the american govornment and Bush admin "anti American".

Dont be such a dope, Goregrinder. It is very obvious the two pictures are different people.

Bin Laden on the right side, who on the left? Hiding in caves and losing weight do not change ones nose height, cheekbone structure, facial dimensions, ect. Skin pigments do not change like that, there is a darkening pattern based on a persons pigment what color they will turn in the sun.

The one on the left is clearly not bin laden, anyone can see that. His nose bridge, cheekbones, eye set, ect are simply and totally different. Even an idiot can take a look and say huh?

Quit believeing everything the govornment tells you, its not good for your health. Many experts have debated the legitimacy of the tapes and have tried to challeneg them. The whole tape continues to be questioned, from the translation to the voive print.

The person on the left appears to be of Central Asian/ south asian origins. Bin Laden is an Arab, semetic. the head shape for the guy on the elft is completely different from the head shape on the right. The head on the left is rounder, the cheekbones padded. This is consistent with Mongol/ Turkic central asian peoples. Bin laden is long skulled, the cheeks sharper. His nose bridge is sharper. This is consistant with Semetic peoples.

Anmd in case youre asking, yes, i took anthopology classes in school. What i stated above is not specialized super complex anthopological science, but something even the lowest novice knows.

The two are NOT the same. period.

Djarums, while your intent is good, it cannot be ignored that Zionist extremists in the Israeli (and yes, american) govornments exist. the Zionists are not benefitting the jews any more than the govornment is benefitting Americans.

Both the Zionist Israeli govornment and the capitolist American govornment are beating and forcing both Jews and Americans down paths that they dont want to go. Both govornments go hand in hand in thier plots and conspiracies often. Criticizng and implicating israel in 9/11 I dont think implicates jews period. that goes into....well, the realm of more questionable matters we all know about. The Zionists maybe jews, but they do not represent Judism and the whole of international jewry world wide. Any more than Bush represents the desires and interests of Americans.

The USS Liberty was an example of joint US and Israeli operations to manipulate stuff. it failed because there were survivors. One of the Israeli Pilots on that day actually kept calling back to his command post, because he saw the ship was full of Americans. he was obviously concerned, because he did not want to attack an A,merican ship, and kept calling back over and over for the confirmation, kept telling the dispatcher this is an American ship, are you sure, they are not a threat, are you sure, aand the dispatchers ordered him to start attacking.

This goes to show not all jews and israelis are in on the conspiracy. This pilot clearly was astonished that he was being ordered to fire on and attack an American ship, including shooting at the life boats. Much as im sure the pilots on 9/11 were shocked when told to stand down.

Zionism victimizes Jews, period, because ultimately, its the average working Jew who suffers the backlash of hatred and wrath, not the big pigs up high.

For the record, Hitler WAS elected by the german people into thier assembly. Hindenberg was the chancellor, but as he was weakening and getting ready to die, the powers that be performed thier backstage shady deals to push Hitler into power.

The Germans did not object. hitler was VERY popular. many Germans I have known that were alive in that time said it was a great time to be a german. Because Hitler took a country broken and economically shattered and built it into a sucessful, vibrant, and fearful war machine.

The issue of germany invading Poland was moot, of course. The real issue there was that the Germans were bitter that thier lands had been taken away because of the treaty of Versailes. Germany did not lose its terrirotires for good reasons, the League of nations blamed the entire war (WW1) on the Germans, unjustly, as the Germans did not start the war. Thus, thier lands were taken illegally. the ideal solution would have been never to blame Germany in the first place, but all nations accepting equal blame for the conflict. needless to say they didnt, created a bitter, vengeful germany, thus, the rise of hitler.

However, this Author makes some rather disturbing claims. Hitlers beef with the Jews was long before the war, he was suckered in to the Aryan mysticism that prevailed all over Germany before the war. The Jews didnt make Hitler kill them, he had pretty much planned to be rid of them long before.

So while this article IS biased, all articles are biased. Bias exists everwhere. the point is to remove biased points and views and see what remains. Bias is easy to detect.

Immade the long trip over to New York in February this year. I visited Ground Zero and even though it merely looked like a building site, something about being there made me realise to such a greater extent the scale of the tradgedy and of the terrible destruction. This is why I dont think that we can just dismiss alot of this evidence and accept everything we have been told about the tradgic event, it's not fair on those who died.

This is one of my favourite essays on 9/11.

globalresearch.ca...

"On the morning of September 11, Pakistan's Chief Spy General Mahmoud Ahmad, the alleged "money-man" behind the 9-11 hijackers, was at a breakfast meeting on Capitol Hill hosted by Senator Bob Graham and Rep. Porter Goss, the chairmen of the Senate and House Intelligence committees.
"When the news [of the attacks on the World Trade Center] came, the two Florida lawmakers who lead the House and Senate intelligence committees were having breakfast with the head of the Pakistani intelligence service. Rep. Porter Goss, R-Sanibel, Sen. Bob Graham and other members of the House Intelligence Committee were talking about terrorism issues with the Pakistani official when a member of Goss' staff handed a note to Goss, who handed it to Graham. "We were talking about terrorism, specifically terrorism generated from Afghanistan," Graham said."

Segment 3:

This is taking a little longer than I thought so I'll only mention the more crucial elements.

1) Criticism of Mossad's slogan. Should they use "Through open methods and advertisement shall we conduct our intelligence operations"?
2) Uncorroborated claim that Israel framed Libya (that country of only good people, and benevolent leaders). I know I know, maybe the Israelis did Lockerbie also.
3) Author expresses shock at the fact that Israel employs Arabs in it's security operations. Author has apparently never realized that every country with an intelligence agency does the same thing. That's how one gathers intelligence without broadcasting that they are gathering it.
4) This part I will conglomerate into one statement. Another boring speech about jews owning the media... boring.
5) AIPAC is far from the most influential. We still use oil for fuel when we have the technology to not need it anymore. That should say something. How about massive donations from Tobacco companies so it doesn't become a controlled substance. Forgot those?
6) He claims to prove his point with a statement that Clinton made, that if Israel was invaded he would come defend it. I dunno... allies do defend each other. A bit of rhetoric supporting that doesn't smell like Jews own the world to me.
7) He claims that all the Palestinians want is an end to the occupations of 1967 and nothing more. On numerous occasions leadership figured of both Extremist groups and mainstream leaders have said not to rest until israel is driven into the sea. Additionally this has appeared in textbooks in schools in the past.
8) He claims that "prior to 9/11 palestinians had more sympathy". Firstly, their own "president" ruins their image. Secondly, the vast majority of the world including the UN and EU still greatly supports the palestinian cause, so what is he talking about?

That's all for the third part. Next comes the "advanced warnings" segment.

Finding the truth about 9/11 is important to the living,the truth as far as those who died there is irrelevant,it won't change what happened to them.
We need to find the truth for the living so that these things do not happen again.
History will repeat itself,according to the author of this story it has once again done just that,and we all know it will repeat itself if we fall asleep and allow others to control our lives.
Nothing ever really changes.

Well of course. what ment is that it's not right that those people who died are never going to have their deaths properly explained and a hidden agenda will have succeeded. Thats not fair to the people who lost their lives, thats awfull.

[Edited on 8-9-2003 by earthtone]

I think some of you may have missed my point. I was not making a judgement regarding the involvement or lack of involvement of any Zionists, or Jews, with regards to the events of sept. 11, 2001. My point (and what I find amazing) is that there are countless posts and topics from various members on this board that do not hesitate for one moment to cry "conspiracy!" when ever there is a "misrepresentation" of fact or mis-reporting of some event. Yet you will read an article by an unknown author, with an obvious racial bias, who claims to be giving you fact and you take it as gospel because it supposedly proves a greater conspiracy then what would seem the true cause. Generally the simplest answers are the true answers. I do not understand how anyone with half of a brain could take that paper seriously after reading the first few pages. Sorry.

Because we have seen from other sources that much of what he speaks of is legit.

His paper, as you say, isnt the only source of much of his info. It can be found elsewhere.

Part 4 is a rehash of old crap. Israelis staying home from work, even though some I know died. Jews text messaging each other over the Jew owned internet. This is old, and doesn't warrant commentary. I'll start here instead:
1) He mentions the one case of a Jewish person performing a terrorist act and seems to have decided that means all jews can be terrorists. The person in question was a nutcase. Normal people don't do what he did. No one was happy with what he did, and it did not help matters at all.
2) He mentions Sharon's visit to the temple mount as inciting the intifada. This author himself said the mount is holy to muslims and jews. I fail to see how a visit by a man to a site holy to his faith can incite an intifada. And the small army he brought? Pardon me but world leaders, heads of state etc. travel with security entourages. This is a fact of life dating back to medieval manor lords.
3) We all have questions about the planes' wherabouts not being properly traced etc, but to blame it on Zionists because a few Jews work in the pentagon is a pretty sad claim.
4) I like the way he calls Israelis "side-locked crazies". Very objective and unbiased.
5) It is a common practice when doing an event sponsored by two countries for a world leader to stand next to both flags. The picture of Bush next to the Israeli flag is a rather poor attempt at furthering the author's points.
6) His casualty list to try and prove Israelis knew about 9/11 in advance is a disgrace to humanity and he should be drawed and quartered for it. He discusses jews running the world, yet fails to mention how many jewish people were in those buildings when they fell.
7) I've never seen this picture of the fat bin laden before. In numerous videos of him proclaiming his hatred and desire to punish america for being infidels he looked just like the classic image of him in the normal picture. I suppose the author believes the picture on the left was of a fat rabbi claiming the bombings to be his doings?
8) Claiming the FBI and ADL to be cohororts is hysterical. These are two groups who are about as different in constituencies and beliefs as the KKK is to the Black panthers.

Following this he blames anthrax on the jews as well.
that would be why it was sent to the very capital building the jews "own" according to this same author lol.
Part 5 conclusion shortly.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Because we have seen from other sources that much of what he speaks of is legit.

His paper, as you say, isnt the only source of much of his info. It can be found elsewhere.

Yep. This crap can be found all over the internet. That must make it true, right?