*Revolutionary War Watch* USA

There have been many threads on ATS as of late regarding a Civil War in America. I believe this is misleading as a Civil War indicates a War between the citizens vs. citizens of this country.

I believe if something where to happen like this it would be a Revolution, Citizen Vs. Federal Government.

John Titor posts are welcome here, but remember this is about a Revolutionary War right here in the USA not about whether Titor is a fraud or not. If you believe he is a fraud or not is irrelovent.

I believe things are devoloping in our country, that a spark such as another Governmental failure to protect and to respond to a crisis like hurricane Katrina & 9/11. Could cause a situation like this to begin. With 9/11 the failure of the government to protect us from such a act, then not fireing anyone who failed to stop this. Then the slow responce to Katrina, possiblly because most areas affected where poor black folk...ect...ect

The increasing Rights given to authoritys to combat the war on Terror.[terroism in a ideology, not a country] so its war against thought or a point of view

The increasing Rights to the government to take away private property for corperations

The growing number of deaths to citizens by the police using "Non-leathal weapon"

The USA has the largest prison population on Earth.

ok this is just a few thoughts, let me know what you think

peace

Over the past several months I have noticed a number of web essayists (I want to say journalists...but...well...) ending their essays with comments to this effect.

Of course...then you have websites like: www.overthrowthegovernment.org...

I suppose I'll also point out that while I'm having a difficutl time finding clear law or case histories, I was under the impression that merely conspiring to overthrow the government may be considered treason, and is punishable by execution.

The only way to conduct a full scale revolution is through the unity of the people. One man can't overthrow the government, but MAN can overthrow the government. Without us, they don't exist.

Great idea for a thread, i love talking about this stuff.

I know i'm going to get some flak for this but because this is entirely on topic I wanted to know if anyone here has read the Turner Diaries. Before your heads explode let me say that yes I know it's highly racist and banned in many countries but I think it's as good an example of what would happen in a modern revolution as anything Titor wrote. Many revolutionary groups, racialist or not, have adopted the book as a guide and it has been suggested as inspiration for the Oklahoma City bombing. The ending of the book, in which "The Organisation" bombs the pentagon is eerily simmilar to 9/11. The author wrote another book entitled "Hunter" which some believe was meant to be a prequel and concerns the story of a man who begins fighting back and the following his actions garner him. The reason why I mention this book is that although the author is a racist extremist he is a member of many revolutionary groups whose goal is the violent overthrow of the Federal Government and therefore the book is vastly different than any you have read while managing to avoid much of the organisations ideaology. I believe many people on ATS to be open minded enough to read the book and ignore the racist agenda. Just replace the ethnic minorities with corrupt corporate interests and I gauruntee it will speak volumes more than Titor. You can read the book for free online but I will hold off on posting the link unless someone requests it because I don't want to get banned.

I am of the opinion that the war to wrest power from the American people began many years ago, the problem lies in the fact that few have opposed the Federal Government and those that do are made to be victims twice over, first by Federal bullets and then by Federal propeganda. The war has been going on for so long that few people even notice that it's happening. A student of American history will notice the vast number of freedoms we have been required to give up to reach this point in time. Many people will say we have not lost that many liberties, that most of what we have lost is simply due to the need of a society to evolve and change to tackle new obstacles. Vast numbers of our fellow citizens have no understanding of rights or freedom and no concept of the limit of governmental power, they have confused the Federal Government with the land and people of America. Our rights are not law given, but god given, they are ours from the day we enter this world to the day we leave it and never should Federal Law supercede our "unalienable" rights.

I suppose i should say a few words on what I believe would instigate and perpetuate a revolution. To be completely honest I don't feel like we are very far away from one, I believe our farcical notion of safety and comfort is teetering on the brink of destruction. I feel as though it would only take a few incidents, poorly handled by the Federal Government, that would cause citizens to question the government's actions. These questions, as usual, will not be met with answers but with beaurocratic mumbling, only this time it will not be enough. I whole heartedly believe that if the government continues to fumble the efforts in New Orleans it could instigate violent action on the part of the people. Remember that we are not out of this yet, long after the clouds have parted and the waters have receeded there will be many people still without employment or housing who will have to go somewhere. If the government continues to trip over it's own shoe laces things will spiral downhill until it is out of the government's control. If the government begins forcing people to follow it's orders, as it has been doing in New Orleans, people will not stand for it. An uprising in New Orleans would be put down with extreme prejudice and hailed as a victory, but Americans will be loathe to accept the deaths of their fellow countrymen without adequate explaination. When it comes out that government goons fired on old women, children, and injured people it will not be a pretty sight.

New Orleans is not the only area it could begin in but it is a good example. The Revolution will come when the American people feel the Federal Government is no longer acting in the best interest of the people, and more over has become detrimental to the continuation of the American way of life. Revolution is in our blood, beware the man who is slow to anger. I believe the Revolution will perpetuate itself as Americans see their brothers and sisters fighting for what they believe in and paying the ultimate price at the business end of Federal guns. When the opiate of entertainment and consumerism runs dry and people are no longer able to escape reality they will rise and fight. When people will realize that the only power the government has is the one we give it. No amount of disinformation or propeganda will stop people from moving to action at that point.

I just hope that when the revolution comes we will have philosophers like Jefferson to guide us to a better society.

Realistically, this isn't going to happen - at least any time soon. It would take something truelly earth shattering for the people of this country to want a revolution...I mean, for christ sakes this is the most wealthy and prosperous nation in the world.

Despite what a lot of people want to believe, the vast majority of Americans are in fact HAPPY with their country. Sure, some may not like the current president, but they know he is gone in a few short years. That is the beauty of our system of government.

It will take something caused by the government to even have hope of sparking a revolutions. Terrorist attacks and hurricanes are things that the government can not control. It is only the loony fringe left that think the government is to blame for these events.

This is why we, 25 and up age group will not see a revolution.

Our age group is still blinded by the Vail of truth, loyalty and trust. We believe that the people we pick to represent us in congress and higher have all this qualities I listed, but cannot or will not realize sometimes we are wrong.

You can't pick a killer out of a line-up, you cant pick a liar out of a line-up.
Once people sit up a notice that some of the people we have voted for do not have ANY qualities there will be need for a change.

People, even more so Americans hate to be wrong. I have been here for almost 2 years and maybe 2% will admit when they are wrong.

Once we as Americans can admit that we have made some major mistakes in the last 50 years, then the 14 and younger age group now, will fight for their country.

Then again, things like this from Pres. Bush's speech last night --

It is now clear that a challenge on this scale requires greater federal authority and a broader role for the armed forces...

-- make you wonder just how long before the Posse Comitatus Act is done away with (because, of course, nobody wants another "New Orleans" to happen).

Then just imagine an outbreak of Bird Flu [or whatever] occurs in some place like Atlanta... what happens when the US troops move in and surround the city?

Originally posted by LDragonFire
The USA has the largest prison population on Earth.

ok this is just a few thoughts, let me know what you think

Woah horsey, your free to leave wherever you want to go.
The berlin wall kept in East Germans whether they liked it or not. What freedoms did they have?

I submit to you that this patriot act does infringe upon the constitution, however since when has government truly adhered to the supreme law of the land?

And as residents of this country I would think 'we the people' have to hold these governments that don't adhere to the constitution accountable, no?

Where is the outrage? Are people more afraid of big government? If there is no outrage against the government, how can there be civil war?

If people are more afraid of their government then angry at them, wouldn't that make people enslaved by their own thoughts?

again, your free to go whever you want. There is no wall to keep people back.

What needs to happen is people getting together and fighting this government in the courts, where today's battles are fought. If people truly wanted a new form of government they would wipe the slate clean and start over as it states in the constitution.

It's our own faults... point the finger at we the people... It's just complacent ignorance.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Realistically, this isn't going to happen - at least any time soon. It would take something truelly earth shattering for the people of this country to want a revolution...I mean, for christ sakes this is the most wealthy and prosperous nation in the world.

The gap is widening.
www.commondreams.org...

Originally posted by American Mad Man
Terrorist attacks and hurricanes are things that the government can not control. It is only the loony fringe left that think the government is to blame for these events.

Are you really sure about that? The terrorist attacks, that is ... I don't believe they have the power to control a hurricane.
I mean, CIA along with MI6, NATO and some European agencies carried out terrorist attacks in Europe, operation Gladio.
And the US had operation Northwoods, which wasn't carried out, or was it?
What about all the holes in the official 9/11 story, and who benefits (maybe, just maybe they didn't do it, but knew it was going to happen, and let it happen, it's almost the same though), and the OKC bombing, and the first WTC bombing ...

And what about Katrina, I mean they knew it was coming, they knew it was cat 5, yet they didn't do much, and after the hurricane their response was very slow. And FEMA, denied relief support from the Red Cross, Wal-Mart, foreign countries etc.
In 1994 the passanger ship Estonia sunk in the middle of the Baltic Sea in international waters, most of the 900 passangers and crew members died, however there was tens of helicopters at the scene within a few hours, in New Orleans there was like 5 or something? Covering the whole of New Orleans!
Oh, and the levee could have been blowed, they did it before, only then it was overt.

People have a tendency to forget things, and the massmedia is helping us do just that ...

Going a bit offtopic, but what the hell

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
This is why we, 25 and up age group will not see a revolution.

Our age group is still blinded by the Vail of truth, loyalty and trust. We believe that the people we pick to represent us in congress and higher have all this qualities I listed, but cannot or will not realize sometimes we are wrong.

Not only that, but most of you, 25-35 year-olds have been too busy working and saving the world (enviros etc.), to pay attention to what is happening to your rights ...

[edit on 16/9/2005 by SwearBear]

Thanks for the replys.

We "hope" the current president is gone in a few years, But lets say he is not...what then?

Im not blameing the Government for natural disasters, But I can blame them for there inept response. As New Orleans showed, if the cell phones, TV's, Computers, and your play station don't work, well you saw how quickly things spiraled out of control. If the Government can't or won't help in time of need, then who needs em. My only problem with 9/11 is it wasn't investigated "CSI" style after the event on orders by the White House. And that no one was fired for not doing there job.

Lets all Remember people, this administration has repeatedly gone against precedent, on countless occasions, there first Attorney General Ashcroft stated publicly that the consitution hindered him in fighting the War on Terror, and was why he/we needed the Patiot Act. So the Beauty of our Government has changed in many areas, and can't be relied on anymore. The constitution is what seperates us from the rest of the world. Its should be the most Sacred part of our society, and should not be ruled against in suppoert of security

The president made it clear last night that the Military will be used more on American soil...in the name of catastropy Events. Our country is over 200 years old, why haven't we needed this before? Do you feel comfortable knowing that Marines or the Army is gonna show up with automatic weapons to respond to natural disasters. Give it sometime with Global Warming, you will soon find out.
As one American to another TrueLies you can kiss where the sun don't shine . According to our consitution I have the right to dissent. How dare you to say if I don't like it then leave....this statement of yours is dealing in absolutes.....Absolutes are of a dictorial mindset and nature. The consitution and laws of a free society Do Not deal in absolutes. And if I was on a No-Fly list because of bein a peace protester [witch Im not], then yes there are Walls to keep people in.
We the people is kinda laughable in this day and age, its more like we the corperation by the corperation. The courts would be a good area to fight this if it wasn't for the Fact that the supreme court has repeatedly ruled against the citizens of this country over and over, they have also ruled against the States, And now the court is going to be even more religously conservitive, when its clear that only half the country is conservitive, most of the country are moderates.
As for the conspricy about the levees bein blown up intentionally in New Orleans it would make it easier to believe that the WTC were brought down by explosives


peace

Originally posted by LDragonFire

Lets all Remember people, this administration has repeatedly gone against precedent, on countless occasions,

And we'll find that virtually every administration has done the same thing in one way or another.

And if I was on a No-Fly list because of bein a peace protester [witch Im not], then yes there are Walls to keep people in.

Can I just inquire..is this a hypothetical, or did this actually happen to you? (IE, someone appearing on a no-fly list for being a peace protester).

I assume he's referring to this.

AMERICAN peace activist Scott Parkin arrived back in the US today under guard after Australian authorities detained him in a Melbourne jail for five days for being a "national security risk".

Or...he could be referring to this.

A federal "No Fly" list, intended to keep terrorists from boarding planes, is snaring peace activists at San Francisco International and other U. S. airports

...or maybe he meant this one?

And the embarrassment was compounded when the feds ordered a United Airlines flight from London to land in Bangor, Maine, because of the presence aboard of rock singer Cat Stevens...The former singer is now a highly respected peace activist;

Etc.

[edit on 16-9-2005 by LordBucket]

onelink

anotherlink

yetanotherlink

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guessyoumissedthesepostsonATS

walls don't allways have to be physical.

Let me state for the record, I have 3 kids the 2 oldest are my boys....I don't want war here in the USA, but is the writting on the wall?

peace
hopefully

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government

If the masses decided that the USG isn't working for them, and they wanted to overthrow this government then it isn't treason according to the founders.

The only problem I have with a revolution taking place is that I don’t think we have a revolutionary infrastructure in this country like we had in 1776 or in 1862 or even in the 1960’s. And I don’t think it is going to be set in motion until we lose our standard of living or we lose in Iraq. Even then the government is more likely to change peacefully.

A peacefull Revolution would require more citizen involement in local and state Government, the states used to be able to trump the Fed Government but that was a long time ago...I would Love to see this.

During the 90's there was a crack-down accross this country of "militia" groups in the USA..eg..Ruby Ridge, Waco, Freemen, plus other racial Groups.....Mcviegh blew up the Morrow building in OK on the aniverary of Waco...funny how some things die down while other things flare up....its been said:

“Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?”
"If the federal forces learned anything from WACO it was to install more reliable suppressors on their automatic weapons and don't use flash grenades that leave shell casings after the fire." John Titor

But what did the militia movement learn, these people were all not killed or imprisoned....?

The Revolutionary War did not start up over night, there were a series of events that escolated, till open warfare in the streets and homes of the people....then there was this Spark heard around the world and the rest is history

Originally posted by LordBucket


I suppose I'll also point out that while I'm having a difficutl time finding clear law or case histories, I was under the impression that merely conspiring to overthrow the government may be considered treason, and is punishable by execution.

Actually, according to the Declaration of Independence, the citizens do have the right to overthrow/get rid of the government if it's not doing its job. In that case it's not treason.

Here is the text:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,–That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

But who decides if the government is not working ? How large does the group of people have to be for it to be considered a revolution and not treason? Does it have to be an overwhelming majority of the entire population of the US? Does a group of individuals count as the entire population? Answers to these questions are very important. Just because you as an individual think government isn't working it doesn't mean you have a right to try and over throw it, if you do, than the government has every right to arrest you.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
But who decides if the government is not working ? How large does the group of people have to be for it to be considered a revolution and not treason? Does it have to be an overwhelming majority of the entire population of the US? Does a group of individuals count as the entire population? Answers to these questions are very important. Just because you as an individual think government isn't working it doesn't mean you have a right to try and over throw it, if you do, than the government has every right to arrest you.

That's why people have to watch their government. Our Founding Fathers knew that government cannot be trusted.

That's why people have to watch their government. Our Founding Fathers knew that government cannot be trusted.

I’m all for that, I just think a group of people that do not represent the majority view of the population have no right to act in my name and try to overthrow the government.