Thought I would share this email I received from a neo-con friend of mine

I've known this guy for years and consider him a friend. Although our political ideologies differ, we don't ever let it get personal. He emails me this stuff just because he knows it'll razzle me. This guy is a hard core Republican neo-con ultra right winger.

Here's the email I got from him this morning. I think it speaks for itself.

have all the sympathy in the world for the folk in New Orleans, but unfortunately...this is pretty much the story.


MISSISSIPPI

Direct Hit , Total natural devastation

Didn't wait for Gov.entitlements, doing for themselves.

No Whiners and no looting

Sen. Trent Lott ( R )
Gov. Haley Barbour ( R )


LOUSIANA

Glancing blow, most damage due to own local neglect.

Waiting for Gov. entitlements, someone to do for them.Angry for having to stand in line to get ($2000.00) money and free housing..

Whiners and looters

Sen. Mary Landrieu ( D )
Gov. Kathleen Blanco ( D )


Beginning to see a pattern here?


The Republican machine is relentless! It's understandable if this is moved to PTS.

Peace



[edit on 15-9-2005 by Dr Love]

I'm not a neo-con (I'm a paleo-conservative) but I would have to agree with that e-mail.

Conservatives, IMO, tend to believe that you should teach a man to fish. Liberals tend to believe that you should forever hand out free fish to the same man.

People need to do for themselves if they can, is what I'm saying. I'm not against the government helping someone who cannot help himself.

It's a question of cannot or will not.

Originally posted by Amethyst
I'm not a neo-con (I'm a paleo-conservative) but I would have to agree with that e-mail.

You would have to agree with an e-mail saying people that vote for local democratic representatives are more likely to be killed by natural disasters?

Uh huh.

Originally posted by RANT

Originally posted by Amethyst
I'm not a neo-con (I'm a paleo-conservative) but I would have to agree with that e-mail.

You would have to agree with an e-mail saying people that vote for local democratic representatives are more likely to be killed by natural disasters?

Uh huh.

That's not what I said. At all.

Besides, there's hardly any difference between Republicans and Democrats. Which is why I didn't vote for either one.

I started a thread on this same topic, that is, the neo-con perspective on what happened after Katrina hit NO. Another neo-con take, this one by Robert Tracinski of the Intellectual Activist (is that an oxymoron?), contrasted with Anne Rice's feelings, followed by my thoughts on the matter, can be found there, if you are interested.

Choosing Sides on the Great Divide

Thanks for keeping this topic out in the open.

Neocons indeed never rest, and their delusional worldview is truly staggering. Never mind the political parties of the Governor and Senators, the main reason people were left behind in New Orleans without help as opposed to people getting out of Mississpi is because New Orleans is a major population center and the logistics of clearing it out are not as simple as clearing out small towns in Mississippi where no one lives. Also, being below sea level results in a lot more devastation, as we have seen, of course. I agree that people should help themselves wherever possible, but geez, no one stayed in NO because they wanted to---these were people who were unable to get out for various reasons, mostly economic. Big cities will naturally have more evacuation problems because more people live there, simple as that. Nobody lives in Mississippi (if I were taking the track orf reasoning the aforementioned neocon did I might hint that no one lives there because they have a Republican governor and senators) so evacuation and rescue efforts were a lot easier. It's all a matter of scale.
---Ryan

[edit on 15-9-2005 by intrepid]

NeoCon Quote or to the rest of the world, quote from an idiot:

"have all the sympathy in the world for the folk in New Orleans, but unfortunately...this is pretty much the story.


MISSISSIPPI

Direct Hit , Total natural devastation

Didn't wait for Gov.entitlements, doing for themselves.

No Whiners and no looting

Sen. Trent Lott ( R )
Gov. Haley Barbour ( R )


LOUSIANA

Glancing blow, most damage due to own local neglect.

Waiting for Gov. entitlements, someone to do for them.Angry for having to stand in line to get ($2000.00) money and free housing..

Whiners and looters

Sen. Mary Landrieu ( D )
Gov. Kathleen Blanco ( D )


Beginning to see a pattern here? "

Response:
There was looting in Mississippi as well, just not on nation wide TV and
the number of poor living in those areas is less than 1/10 that of New Orleans alone. People who think like that have no moral values for their fellow man and will go to hell when the time comes and it will come. The worst joke Satan ever played on the NeoCon's was making them think they will live forever. Unfortunately for all NeoCon's, you will die, and you will meet your maker and atone for your sins against your fellow man. Death cannot be cheated and it has no favorites!

Ryan, you might want to move beyond your political myopia and look at the whole picture, and you'd see that one cannot blame everything on Bush (He'd be first in the line you might consider a "neo-con", although there is little conservative about him.

Did anyone else get this email? It came with no link and I'm heading out the door to work so I don't have time to Google and verify.

Could I ask someone to do the footwork for me? Sorry to make the request, but I wouldn't want to be late for my job working for The Man!
____________________________________________________________


Politics over duty

This is a post from a fellow over in Merritt Is, FL, a reporter who's been researching what went on before the storm hit the Gulf Coast.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think all of Mayor Nagin's pomp and posturing is going to bite him hard in thenear future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming to light.

On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Nagin (Mayor of New Orleans) and Blanco (Governor of New Orleans) personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of New Orleans and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68 ft waves before it was destroyed.

President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act). Just before midnight Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sig! n the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was
decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.

Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation.
After a personal plea from the President Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In frustration the! President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some
advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.

Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to NO for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted o! r coordinating into any planning - though the document
implies that they were.

The suffering people of NO need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states. Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.

This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to fi! nd a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray t o God for the survivors that they can start their lives
anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future."

Wow, TC amazing post, you sum it up quite well. Of course it will be ignored by the blind Bush haters

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Did anyone else get this email? It came with no link and I'm heading out the door to work so I don't have time to Google and verify.

TC, I just looked at the email again and it doesn't say from where it originated. It's just has my buddy's name and work address. I am in the process of asking him for that information. I will let you know when he answers.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't written by him because his spelling and grammatical skills are that of a fourth grader.

Peace

I hate to seem argumentative, but where do I "blame Bush for everything?" In my last post I never even mention the guy, I simply point out that neocons never rest in the promulgation of their beliefs, and pointed out that New Orleans is tougher to evacuate than Mississippi due to its larger size. In other posts I have said there is plenty of blame to go around but I have thrown more at Bush because in my opinion as President he utterly failed in his job and is worthy of contempt. I agree my view can be a bit myopic at times, true enough, but no moreso than most of the pro-Bush folks on here who can never find any fault with the guy whatsoever. Anyway, like I say, my last post had no Bush-blame whatsoever, so why you would bring this up now kinda puzzles me. It's your view and of course you're entitled to it, but I don't think that I am any more proportionately crtitical of Bush than you are defensive of him---it doesn't mean either of of us is right or wrong, it just means we both have very different views of the issues. Oh, and as for blind "Bush-Haters," as mentioned above, some of us dislike Bush because our eyes are open, not closed---but can "blind" Bush loyalists give us anti-Bush people credit for disliking him based on our own consciences and viewpoints and informed decision-making, or are all Bush-haters "blind" in their eyes?
---Ryan

[edit on 15-9-2005 by RyanC]

TC, his reply was as follows:

Hey Man

I actually received it from a Chinese structural engineer in Freeport. Not sure where he got it.

He's going to try and find out from that guy/gal.

This is how the machine works. These emails are disseminated with fervor among the right very quickly.

Peace

Originally posted by RyanC
...New Orleans is a major population center and the logistics of clearing it out are not as simple as clearing out small towns in Mississippi where no one lives.

Reminds me of the Yogi Berra quote:

"No one goes to Coney Island anymore on account of the crowds".

[edit on 15-9-2005 by intrepid]

Well TC, I found the below article at CNN. In it, it says that:

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin declared a state of emergency Sunday and ordered a mandatory evacuation of the city.

Source

As far as governer Blanco goes it seems she declared it on the 26th of august:

BATON ROUGE, LA--Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco today issued Proclamation No. 48 KBB 2005, declaring a state of emergency for the state Louisiana as Hurricane Katrina poses an imminent threat, carrying severe storms, high winds, and torrential rain that may cause flooding and damage to private property and public facilities, and threaten the safety and security of the citizens of the state of Louisiana The state of emergency extends from Friday, August 26, 2005, through Sunday, September 25, 2005, unless terminated sooner

Source

As far as Bush goes according to the article just states that:

Bush issues disaster declarations
President Bush announced Sunday that he had issued disaster declarations for Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of southern Florida. The declaration for Miami-Dade and Broward counties in Florida will allow residents there to apply for federal disaster aid.

Source

I am not sure so someone correct me if I am wrong but a disaster declaration is different from declaring a state of emergency.

It seems though from the information I have found that that e-mail is incorrect. I will not comment on the rest of the article becouse I have heard differently (and really do not feel like finding my sources at the current moment) and I do not agree with a lot that is said. And considering how wrong it was about the declaring a state of emergency the rest of the information will be just as incorrect.


Hope this helps

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Wow, TC amazing post, you sum it up quite well. Of course it will be ignored by the blind Bush haters

If I find one side a raging bunch of morons does that mean the other side is automatically elevated to perfection?

I have found that with a little practice you can find room to be disgusted with BOTH parties

That's very true, Amuk, and despite what most people may infer from my posts, I am not actually a Democrat myself . Neither party offers much , in my opinion, the Republicans just do a better job of delivering on that offer of not much---like someone once said, can't remember who: The Republicans say government doesn't work, then get elected every four years and prove it." A bit simplified, but still pretty true.
---Ryan

Originally posted by RyanC
Neither party offers much

Thats why I am a Libertarian.....

We will never get elected so we can never cause any harm

These days I complain more about the Republicans because they are in power, but you should have heard what I had to say about Clinton and Reno back when the Democrats were in power.

I just dont see much use in whining about them now.

[edit on 15-9-2005 by Amuk]

First post. I have been nearsighted since 10 and am now at the bifocal age. And I have rose tinted corrective lenses

I have been a registered Libertarian -in AK. When I tried to join the GOP in '88 to support Dole having lived in KS '65-'74, I found out I couldn't be a Republican in AK because I didn't tote and quote the Bible. The assistant pastor of the Ancorage Baptist Temple was the president of our precinct and refused to let us register at the caucus. A former state legislator who was a top ranking state GOP member called me the next day and apologized for the mistake. That evening I went to the Democratic caucus and was registered. The Democrats were not, as Will Rogers famously said, an organized political party. They were very nice, normal Americans with different ideas on how government should work, what it should do, etc. After reading his position papers, I became a "Dukakis Democrat". In 17 years of activity in the party since, I still find the majority intelligent, well meaning and committed to this country. We have our loose canons, fanatics, etc. It's a big tent .

Did the Federal Government have a responsibility to maintain the infrastructure of the NO port?
Did the Federal Government have a responsibility to help the local and state governments with the overwhelming preparation for this kind of disaster?
In the face of limited assistance did the local governments try to come up with plans?
Is there inefficiency and corruption in every human organization? The Catholic Church, Gov, Enron ...
Does the Federal Government have a responsibility to audit how the money it gives out is spent?

This is an excellent article on the geopolitical importance on the Port of NO
www.stratfor.com...

This is an op-ed on how the neocon strategy threatens our economic security. As a one time committed Objectivist, I know Ayn Rand did not support this approach to limiting government.
www.laweekly.com...

It is part of the FEMA mandate that they help State and Local governments when the potential disaster is beyond their resources to prepare for or manage.
One of the ideas for evacuation that came out of last years "Pam" exercise was due to be released this month. Katrina didn't wait.

Unfortunately, the Bush administration, for all it's business attitude, has done a lousy job of auditing.
www2.pasadenastarnews.com...

On the liberal blog I ususally stay on, we have a new contributor. A stalwart GOP until Katrina, he is willing to acknowledge the responsibility of the state and local governments. But from where he lives, just north of New Orleans, the Fed response was simply inexcusable.

I can't find a link to a Dateline transcript the other night. Stone Phillips interviewed a number of people, including Nagin. Also revealing of the timeline on requests for assistance as well as some of the FEMA responses and actions.

Time for me to go to work too.

Originally posted by Amuk
If I find one side a raging bunch of morons does that mean the other side is automatically elevated to perfection?

I have found that with a little practice you can find room to be disgusted with BOTH parties

I'm not raising the Bush admin to a level of perfection, I think it's quite obvious big mistakes were made at the Federal level (as FEMA director Brown paid for with his job)...however, some people here seem to be trying to make a hero out of Mayor Nagin just because he got on the radio and complained (I would have actually liked to use a different word), but it's obvious he and the governor were absolutely incompetent themselves.

Originally posted by Amuk

I have found that with a little practice you can find room to be disgusted with BOTH parties

This is how I'm beginning to feel about the preperations prior to Katrina as well as how things transpired after. All levels of government were 'dirty' to some degree somewhere along the line. Lots of blame to go around.

In a few short words, you've summed it up perfectly...now, if I only had an applause left to give, you'd get it.

The big question remains, though...will anything change?