The Sacred Symbols of Mu, and underwater japanese pyramid

Does anyone have anymore info on this? I was only able to find a little bit of information on this site... (3/4 of the way down)

www.greatdreams.com...

In 1998, the excitement raged as Team Atlantis went to investigate an underwater site near Japan where a pyramid was found. To our surprise, an old gentlemen who lived on a nearby island had this tattoo on his hand:


The tattoo of an elderly person who
lived on the island from which the
dives were made.


This stone was found on the island
where the underwater pyramids
were discovered.

When we saw that tattoo, we immediately knew it was an authentic ancient mark. This is it:



I posted this on their site: www.teamatlantis.com...

July 22, 1998 - Hello everyone: When we came to this site, the underwater scenes were incredible, but what excited us even more was the photo of the elderly person and his tattoo in comparison with the stone. The stone shows the same picture as Tablet 1231 in Col. James Churchwards' 'The Sacred Symbols of Mu'.

Churchward states: This cross is the most valuable writing which has come down to us from the First civilization both as regards religion and science. This cross tells us that all Forces throughout the Universe have their origin in the Deity. That these forces are controlling life and all movements of matter down to the atom and particles of atoms, either directly or indirectly. It shows us that the Forces called Atomic Forces are only indirect workings of Primary Forces through Atoms. It tells us how the Great Primary Forces are working in a manner to maintain regular and perfect movements of each and every body throughout the Universe.

All of the arms of this cross are symbols of the Primary Forces coming from and out of the Deity. All of these arms or Forces are pointing towards the East - the four form a circle. Therefore, the Primary Forces are all working in a circle from a Center and proceeding in an Easterly direction.

There is no explanation as to where this stone was found. How did the elderly person get the tattoo that matches it exactly?

If what we suspect is true, this Atlantis team should be renamed the teamMU.

Dee

Unfortunately, the theories of James Churchward are considered by most serious researchers to be little more than fiction. There is no evidence whatsoever that the tablets he described exist in any form other than as the product of his imagination and modern-day forgeries.

First, a little background information on “Colonel” James Churchward, including his beliefs regarding Mu and his discovery of the stone tablets of the Naacals, of which “Tablet No. 1231” is part.

Born in Devon, England in 1851, James Churchward began, in later life, to use the title “Colonel”, although there is debate over whether or not he actually served in any military capacity. For example, this site puts him in the British Army in 1868, whilst this site suggests that there is no evidence of him having undertaken military service.

During a trip to India and Tibet, he claimed to have made the acquaintance of a wise Indian sage, whom he referred to as the Rishi. After he had befriended him, this Rishi revealed to James Churchward a series of undeciphered tablets written in a dead language known as the Naacal language. The story goes that, despite some initial reluctance, the Rishi assisted James Churchward in deciphering the language and revealing the story of the tablets. How they were able to do so with no formal linguistic training remains unexplained, although Churchward himself claims to have done so through the use of telepathy www.forteantimes.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Reference.

The tablets apparently told the story of a great continent in the Pacific Ocean. This continent, known alternately as Mu or Lemuria, achieved a very advanced level of technological and spiritual development. All was well until approximately 60 000 years ago when the “gas belts” on which the continent rested collapsed and exploded, causing a series of terrible volcanic eruptions which buried the continent forever and scattered its people to the winds. All that remained of Mu following the collapse were various islands throughout the Pacific, including Hawaii, Easter Island, Samoa and Fiji:



Churchward then attempted to discover “evidence” of the existence of Mu throughout various cultures of the world, including many of the Meso-American cultures and many Native American cultures. For example, a set of tablets discovered in Mexico by geologist William Niven were attributed by Churchward as evidence of the existence of surviving descendants of Mu, given that they bore similar symbols to his Naacal tablets. The theory of many modern archaeologists, that the tablets were modern figurines made by the locals, is rarely discussed (kjmatthews.users.btopenworld.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Reference).

The problem in accepting Churchward’s story lies in the fact that absolutely no trace of the Naacal tablets he claims to have found and deciphered has ever been forthcoming. He did not take them out of India and supposedly only ever showed them to one of his friends who was, of course, never named and has never come forward. None of Churchward’s work contains so much as a single footnote or reference and it cannot be verified independently. Churchward never divulged the location of the temple at which the tablets were located, nor the true identity of the Rishi. Thus, any further research into the veracity of his claims is impossible. This is almost enough to sink his theories by itself. However, Churchward also errs in terms of the science behind his theories. The islands of the Pacific, for example, far from being the remnants of a lost continent, were formed by well understood and accepted volcanic principles. Take Hawaii, for example:

All of the Hawaiian Islands were formed by volcanoes arising from the sea floor through a vent described in geological theory as a hotspot. The theory maintains that as the tectonic plate beneath much the Pacific Ocean moves in a northwesterly direction, the hot spot remains stationary, slowly creating new volcanoes.

Reference – Wikipedia

There is also no evidence that any significantly large land mass has existed in the Pacific Ocean for millions of years. The following map shows a relief of the sea floor and you can see that there is no evidence of a sunken continent. Rather, the map shows clearly understood plate boundaries and mountain ranges.



As for the symbol shown on “Tablet No. 1231”, whilst it is almost certainly a fake, it is true that the swastika was a common symbol throughout the ancient world. In Japanese Buddhism, the swastika represented Dharma, universal harmony and balance (Reference – Wikipedia). So it is not unreasonable that an elderly Japanese gentleman might have a swastika tattoo on his hand, although to be honest the symbol looks more like a cross than a swastika. Certainly there is not enough detail to state that it represents the symbol shown on the stone or the tablet - “matching it exactly” as the site claims. Speaking of the tablet, I note that on the same site it states that

There is no explanation as to where this stone was found.

which, to me at least, suggests that its authenticity is dubious at best. I would be extremely surprised if it turned out to be anything other than a fake.

I would like to believe in Churchward’s tales of Mu. However, given his lack of tangible evidence, the fact that his entire theory is based on a set of tablets nobody has ever seen or knows the location of, and the obvious scientific inaccuracies of his theories, I must accept that his statements concerning the Naacal tablets and the history of Mu are nothing more than stories, and not particularly elaborate or convincing ones at that.

Hope this helped, noslenwerd. Let em know if you have any more questions regarding this.

Edit - The Japanese Pyramid
Just a little information concerning the underwater pyramid referenced by the site. The formation lies just off the coast of Yonaguni-jima, Japan. Debate is still ongoing as to whether or not the structure represents a natural or man-made formation. The site itself is currently being further examined by the Morien Institute, who have an excellent site at that link with lots of fantastic underwater photographs. It should be noted that they themselves believe the structure to be man-made, but in no way connected to either Mu or Atlantis. From their home page:

The Morien Institute has kept a close watch on developments since 1999, and has been just as excited about the many new batches of underwater photographs that have emerged of the Yonaguni structures (yes! there is more than one), as we have been dismayed by the many citings of the structure's existence as somehow representing 'the final proof' of the existence of Atlantis and/or Lemuria. We have consistently taken the simple view that, following the dramatic series of rises in sea-levels that marked the ending of the last Ice Age, it is 'inevitable' that more and more evidence of ancient civilisation will be discovered on the continental shelves and shallow seas, everywhere around the world.

[edit on 14/9/05 by Jeremiah25]

Originally posted by Jeremiah25
There is also no evidence that any significantly large land mass has existed in the Pacific Ocean for millions of years. The following map shows a relief of the sea floor and you can see that there is no evidence of a sunken continent. Rather, the map shows clearly understood plate boundaries and mountain ranges.

Jeremiah25,

I just finished a Scientific American Special Edition that says otherwise. There actually is a continent under a portion of the Pacific, the islands of Indonesia represent the tops of the highest mountains on the continent.

Turns out continents do rise and sink. The southern part of Africa is currently undergoing a very rapid rise. Rapid, that is, for a continent.

BTW, the sunken Pacific contenent sank several million years ago, and therefore can't possibly me Lemuria/Mu. But it's sinking is very recent in "continent years!"

Also, quite a coincidence, wouldn't you say, that a sunken continent actually exists where these stupid (so-called) "legends" put Lemuria?

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
Jeremiah25,

I just finished a Scientific American Special Edition that says otherwise.

Really? Cool. Do you have the issue number? I would really be interested in reading it as well. Do you know if it is available online?

There actually is a continent under a portion of the Pacific, the islands of Indonesia represent the tops of the highest mountains on the continent.

Turns out continents do rise and sink. The southern part of Africa is currently undergoing a very rapid rise. Rapid, that is, for a continent.

BTW, the sunken Pacific contenent sank several million years ago, and therefore can't possibly me Lemuria/Mu. But it's sinking is very recent in "continent years!"

Whilst it is true that plate tectonics has faced significant opposition, both in the past and more recently, I feel it remains, for now, the most logical response to many of the observations we make concerning the formation and movement of the Earth's geographical features. Without access to the article, I cannot really refute or comment upon its findings, other than to say that I am aware of the argument.

However, I am fully prepared to admit the possibility that a large land mass once existed in the Pacific millions of years ago. You will note that I very deliberately made room for just such an eventuality when I said:

There is also no evidence that any significantly large land mass has existed in the Pacific Ocean for millions of years.

If such a continent were shown to have existed at one time, it would be an interesting piece of scientific knowledge, but it would not affect the veracity of Churchward's claims, since even a recent sinking in geological terms would have happened long before the advent of Humanity.

Also, quite a coincidence, wouldn't you say, that a sunken continent actually exists where these stupid (so-called) "legends" put Lemuria?

Perhaps, although it seems to me as though these "lost continents" are placed in rather obvious locations. After all, if you are going to postulate the belief that a large continent once existed in a region that is now ocean, then you are going to have to locate it in a large ocean by necessity. It would be difficult to claim that a lost continent once existed in the Caspian Sea, for example. When you look at the size of Mu on Churchward's map, the Pacific is really the only place it could feasibly be located if the story surrounding it is to be in any way believable.

Regardless, you yourself have pointed out that any large land mass that may have existed in the Pacific Ocean sank millions of years ago, which is far before the onset of anything even remotely resembling modern Humanity.

Land masses rise and subside, but nothing like with mu or atlantis. Lemuria is different, its actually rather interesting. Before plate tectonics, geologists hypothesized that land masses sank and rose, this was thought to explain lots of geological and biogeographical information. For instance, in madagascar, there are lemurs. Ther are also lemurs in india. But there aren't any in the lands on the way there. The hypothesis was that there was once a continent in the western portion of the indian ocean, and that it provided something of a land bridge. Hence the name lemuria. The theosophists seized upon this idea and churned out the Civilization of Lemuria idea.
Incidentally, geologists also thought that the central america connection b/t north and south america was a land bridge that sank, then rose, because the paleontological evidence indicated that the two continents were once seperate.
Now its generally understood that this all has more to do with the movement of plates and changes in sea level.
Nevertheless continental rock can get compressed (like a pillow) and expand (like a, er, pillow, after the compression or depression). New York state, for example, has earthquakes, they are caused by this "isostatic rebound" that is the land 'springing' back up after having been depressed by the former ice sheets.

But, again, this has nothing to do with sunken continents. We know that they don't exist, becuase they're literally not there, they're ocean floor in those locations is made up of oceanic rock, not distinctly different contintental rock. So no atlanis or lemuria, and even tho the indonesian islands are actually connected to a mostly sunken land mass, they aren't really where Mu is supposed to be (Mu is supposed to explain the polynesian islands, and also explain why there are people on these isolated islands). And there isn't any continent of Pan either, which was supposed to be a triangular contient off the south coast of alaska.

The age of humanity is getting pushed back further and further all the time with new discoveries. I remember a time when the generally accepted view was that the first humanoid creatures appeared about 2.5 million years ago. This was subsequently revised to 3 million and now it seems that 4 million years is generally accepted.
The arrival of "modern" man seems to be rather difficult to pin down, but Neanderthals - far from being inferior in every respect to modern man - actually had an average cranial capacity that was substantially larger than we have today.
Sure, it doesn't follow that they did anything of great significance with it, but certainly they were not short of the grey matter needed for sophisticated tasks or modern language. There seems to be a widely prevalent tendency to assume that ancient man knew practically nothing worth knowing and merely wandered about in small clans or bands in a semi-nomidic existence that just happened to poplulate every habitable region of the globe by accident.
I suggest that the reality was probably a very different scenario. Far from being ignorant troglodites, many races of early man were highly resourceful and used ingenious methods to find and store food, build shelter and alter their environment sufficiently to survive in it. They had the knowhow to survive freezing winters, cross scorching desserts and go where no ordinary animal could go.
That's why mankind is practically everywhere on the planet. If it was possible for any animal to make the same migrations there would have been a far more homogenous make up of fauna throughout the world,instead of the way it is.
Take for example, the 4000 year old remains found in the Alps a few years back. It seems the body of the 'Ice Man' had the major acupuncture points tattoed on it. That suggests two things: first that plenty was known about the human body 4000 years ago - and second that people specialised; that knowledge was not known to everyone. How do I figure that out. Well obviously the points were marked so a lesser practitioner - or even the man himself - would know exactly where to stick the needles if the need arose - or would be able to communicate the know-how to a third party. And if you think that's a dumb assumption on my part, do you recall what the "experts" said about the man's diet.
It seems to me that any khalahari Bushman would have been able to make more accurate deductions about the "Ice Man's" last days than most of the scientific fratenity who have access to the remains.
Getting back on the track - even if a large land mass disappeared beneath the sea a million years ago - the time frame itself does not preclude the possibility that people capable of building and writing could have lived there in ancient times.
It is sad indeed that little remains except those things made of stone, or found in bogs. A whole civilization could have existed in a bog-free zone and if they only made contructions of wood and fibre, they could disappear without a single trace.
To illustrate the point, I have personally dug up bits of old washing machines and similar items that couldn't have been more than 30 or 40 years old - yet they were scarcely recognisable. Another 50 years and they would have almost vanished completely.
It is likely that a million years from now there will be scarcely any trace of of today's most important cities - and unless there's a perfect continuum of civilization between now and then - with no sudden technological reversals - the people who are around in a million years time won't have any more of an idea of what went before than we do.

Originally posted by Jeremiah25

Originally posted by Harte
Jeremiah25,

I just finished a Scientific American Special Edition that says otherwise.

Really? Cool. Do you have the issue number? I would really be interested in reading it as well. Do you know if it is available online?.

Jeremiah25,

It was Scientific American Special [issn 1048-0943] Volume 15, number 2, 2005. It was, as I said, a "special edition," so I assume it was a collection of prior articles on the subject of the special edition, in this case "Our Ever Changing Earth." I believe the article I got this info from was "Sculpting the Earth from Inside Out," by Michael Gurnis. I doubt any special edition can be located on the web, but you might find the info by googling Michael Gurnis along with Australia, the article explains the Australian plate's bobbing up and down by associating it with the plate moving over the ancient subduction zone that is (still) drawing Indonesia down. Apparently this sinking dates way way back, to the Cretaceous I believe, though the article, not being expressly about that subject, did not go into much detail on the Indonesian plate.

Actually, you might still find a print copy if you get to a large bookstore or airport magazine rack. The cover of the issue says "Display until September 26th, 2005."

There actually is a continent under a portion of the Pacific, the islands of Indonesia represent the tops of the highest mountains on the continent.

Turns out continents do rise and sink. The southern part of Africa is currently undergoing a very rapid rise. Rapid, that is, for a continent.

BTW, the sunken Pacific contenent sank several million years ago, and therefore can't possibly me Lemuria/Mu. But it's sinking is very recent in "continent years!"

Originally posted by Jeremiah25
However, I am fully prepared to admit the possibility that a large land mass once existed in the Pacific millions of years ago. You will note that I very deliberately made room for just such an eventuality when I said:

There is also no evidence that any significantly large land mass has existed in the Pacific Ocean for millions of years.

.

If such a continent were shown to have existed at one time, it would be an interesting piece of scientific knowledge, but it would not affect the veracity of Churchward's claims, since even a recent sinking in geological terms would have happened long before the advent of Humanity.

Point taken. I do not doubt that you are not one to rule out every possibility concerning plate tectonics. But others here are. I have seen many times postings making these absolute statements that no "sunken continent" exists, when, as you can see, they actually do. That is not to say that you have made such statements. I was hasty in seeming to attribute such a thing to you, mainly because I had only just found it out myself, and had this forum in mind while I was reading it.

Also, no matter what other posters may think or wish, you are absolutely correct that this continent could never have been inhabited by humans. Not by any hominids, I'd say. With the exception of the ones that live there now, on the "mountaintop" islands.

Also, quite a coincidence, wouldn't you say, that a sunken continent actually exists where these stupid (so-called) "legends" put Lemuria?

Originally posted by Jeremiah25
Perhaps, although it seems to me as though these "lost continents" are placed in rather obvious locations. After all, if you are going to postulate the belief that a large continent once existed in a region that is now ocean, then you are going to have to locate it in a large ocean by necessity.

That is really funny when you think about it. I liked the Caspian Sea analogy (though I didn't quote it.) Lake Superior anyone?

Harte

[edit on 9/20/2005 by Harte]

Sorry for bumping an old thread but Mu needs to be talked about way more. I'm just learning about it and find it very fascinating!

a reply to: game over man

Old?

Almost as ancient as Mu.


The legends and tales of lost continents, and cities are endlessly fascinating to me, as well.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: game over man

Old?

Almost as ancient as Mu.

The legends and tales of lost continents, and cities are endlessly fascinating to me, as well.

Covid variant MU is in 49 states: www.foxnews.com...

Coincidence?

a reply to: carewemust

You just can't help yourself, can you??

a reply to: seagull

The theory of the Menehune living in Hawaii before the Hawaiians arrived is really interesting and who inhabitated the islands before the Menehune is really interesting too...There's multiple examples and evidence of the Menehune living there.

This idea before the "flood" when oceans levels were much lower, approx 400 feet and what the islands would look like with Maui, Lanai, Molokai, and Kahoowale, all connected and Kauai and Niihau connected is crazy to think about!! Even the older smaller islands would have been bigger and possibly connected, like Nihoa and Mokumanamana. I just found out the tiny island Mokumanamana has a bunch of culture sites and stone statues, Ki'i Pohaku.

Here's some fun reading:

Link 1

Link 2

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: carewemust

You just can't help yourself, can you??

It came to mind. Discussion forum. Free speech. I spoke. Move along!

a reply to: carewemust

Fair 'nough.

The stories are fascinating, though.

a reply to: game over man

The Menehune stories/legends are fascinating. I first heard of them when I was a teen, and my family went to the Islands for a vacation...

They almost lost me when I was enchanted by the stories an old Islander was telling to the tourists.

Legends of Little People abound all over the world. Actual primitive humans, called Hobbits, lived in SE Asia and may, or may not be the source of many of these tales--there's no evidence of anything like them anywhere else, that I'm aware of...but it does lend itself to interesting thoughts.

a reply to: seagull

Yes the Homo floresiensis which are noted to have small brains so that might rule them out of being the Menehune. The ancient Tahitians and Hawaiians were really tall, 6'4 and taller, so Menehunes might have not been super small at all and more in the 5 foot range.

The Tahitians were warriors so they might have thought the Menehunes were too peaceful, hence weak, and named them Manahune, mana meaning power, hune meaning poor, even though Manahune is supposed to mean common people.

these topics definitely need more attention. very fascinating, thanks for the bump, game over man.

originally posted by: kando
The age of humanity is getting pushed back further and further all the time with new discoveries. I remember a time when the generally accepted view was that the first humanoid creatures appeared about 2.5 million years ago. This was subsequently revised to 3 million and now it seems that 4 million years is generally accepted.

yes, this. it's something i've personally watched (and i'm not very old), and been trying to expose to people for years. i feel it would be irresponsible not to point it out more often, and i bring it up with my kid once in a while.

and not only time periods, but astrological distances. during my lifetime the accepted size of our own solar system has been "adjusted" a shocking amount, to say nothing of nearby stars. way beyond reasonable "technological advances" allowing more "accurate" measurement.

current events should make most here on ATS familiar with the idea of "moving the goalpost" ... and encourage a little more skepticism surrounding such "adjustments."

-------

not directly related, but something thing to consider.
a first-hand account i heard in the early 1990s from a scientist/archeologist (can't recall his name offhand but can dig it up if there's interest -- a christian apologist; assuming some will be predisposed to dismiss him because of that, though i think that only betrays irrational bias -- regardless, he made some excellent points i've yet to hear good arguments against 20-some years later) who was disillusioned with the scientific community's departure from the scientific method (empiricism particularly). which, i personally have not seen improve since (i'm looking at you, "medical community").

he had very serious concerns regarding radiocarbon dating. again keep in mind, technological advances considered, the basis of his concerns remain even in modern methods -- some less so, some perhaps more so. but this particular incident just takes the cake. and yes he had documented the event with exact numbers.

as a sort of litmus test, he decided to exhume a cat he'd buried in his back yard a few years prior. he took a couple of bones from the skeleton into a reputable lab for carbon dating. while submitting the samples, the lab technician (IIRC, sort of conversationally) asked how old he thought the bones were. instead of saying several years, he dropped a number in the millions of years (can't remember the exact number). a few weeks later he collected the sample and result. the official, reputable lab report stated that his housecat bones were millions of years old.

-------

so, point is... totally not saying mu/lemuria/atlantis were above water 10.000 years ago, but ... there are some things that really (should) make you go hHMmmmmmm...

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: game over man

The Menehune stories/legends are fascinating. I first heard of them when I was a teen, and my family went to the Islands for a vacation...

They almost lost me when I was enchanted by the stories an old Islander was telling to the tourists.

Legends of Little People abound all over the world. Actual primitive humans, called Hobbits, lived in SE Asia and may, or may not be the source of many of these tales--there's no evidence of anything like them anywhere else, that I'm aware of...but it does lend itself to interesting thoughts.

That also occurred to me, as well as the thought that it might be an import to Hawai'i with the first Polynesians; tales of the old homeland and the Hobbit folk. There's features of the Menehune concept that match the tales of the Hobbits.

I once watched a documentary that talked about Nan Madol as possibly being a part of ancient Lemuria but that was a long time ago but still it is a mysterious looking place and how they moved these basalt rocks is impressive.



I found this strange site about Lemurian teachings?

www.lemurianfellowship.org...

Origin of Life
Here you will be given little-known facts about the formation of earth and how life came to be. You will learn about the higher planes — life waves beyond the human — and the role they play. You will discover the source of your egoic being, or spirit; why you are here today and what you may be able to accomplish in this life.

History
Because the Lemurian Teaching is based on analysis of thousands of years of human endeavor, one of the lessons takes you back in history to the civilizations of Lemuria and Atlantis, as well as later prehistoric cultures such as Egypt and India. New light is shed on such matters as the Twelve Tribes of Israel, the Tabernacle in the Wilderness, the Ark of the Covenant, and the building of Solomon’s Temple.

a reply to: game over man

That's possible, perhaps even likely.

There's no such thing as a small Pacific Islander--they generally run to the larger side of the scale. Big, beautiful/handsome folks who are wonderful friends when they get to know you.

I'm not familiar enough with the culture, and history to give anything like an informed opinion.