How is Canada fairing in all of this?

Salem,

Sorry man but Quebec is not in good shape. Things are better there but not good. My brother spent time in Montreal recently and said there is still a lack of jobs, not many people around (or spending), and the usual slow decline is apparent.

The only positive he had to say positive was the great restaurants in Montreal, which is not a new thing. Personally I haven't been to Quebec in sometime but I have in the past travelled extensively there. When you are outside of Montreal and Quebec City it is a different place. Quite peaceful and the people are pleasant. But the place doesn't have the hustle and bustle of other areas of this country I've seen. Is that a bad thing? No not at all. But it could be a problem if you want to be your own country though.

Regarding Western Canada, the growth rates out there are explosive (except Sask., but Manitoba is even growing), and an increasingly diversified economy.

The problem with Canada is that Ontarians by history and culture have been brain washed into thinking that Quebec is an equal partner in Canada. But that is whishful thinking really in today's context. It won't be long before Ontario has twice the people that Quebec has and nearly three times the economy. When that day comes that Ontarians realize not only can they take over the running of Canada but it is their obligation to do so, that day will be a bad day for Quebec.

Looks like it's hard to get a job in Canada:

"Canada's unemployment rate edged up to 8 per cent in August, as the economy shed 19,000 jobs, Statistics Canada reported Friday."

"job growth has been very slow this year, with employment increasing by only 0.3 per cent, "a sharp contrast to the 2.6 per cent growth during the first eight months of 2002," Statistics Canada said. "

www.cbc.ca...

also
whole lotta stats:

www.statcan.ca...

[Edited on 17-9-2003 by ktprktpr]

Originally posted by THENEO
Salem,

Sorry man but Quebec is not in good shape. Things are better there but not good. My brother spent time in Montreal recently and said there is still a lack of jobs, not many people around (or spending), and the usual slow decline is apparent.

Things are not better but they're far to be bad, sure that's difficult to maintain an free health for every one, or to maintain social aids ( wich is really good for those who didn't get a job, and the 3rd best in the world ) with the 11 september or the bois d'oevre problem, but I will tell you something ; if things were begining to be bad we should only abandon these socialist health and social programs for some years... The time to fix the debt and other problems. For the lack of jobs, it only depends of what kind of job you are seeking, there's a lot of jobs avaible in other region than montreal, and there's a lack of people who work in the health sector. Sorry but if your brother had spent more time here you could know more stuff...

The only positive he had to say positive was the great restaurants in Montreal, which is not a new thing. Personally I haven't been to Quebec in sometime but I have in the past travelled extensively there. When you are outside of Montreal and Quebec City it is a different place. Quite peaceful and the people are pleasant. But the place doesn't have the hustle and bustle of other areas of this country I've seen. Is that a bad thing? No not at all. But it could be a problem if you want to be your own country though..

Let's clarify one thing for you and Annie, mostly Annie because she seems to think that BC is paying for every one in Canada, is that federal taxes here in province of Qu�bec are a lot higher than in any other provinces ( not surprising if we can't clear the debt at the same speed than you ), that the population here is higher too, ottawa receive more money from us than any other province and then ... they only send us back 78% of this money, not a bad thing thought, we need to help other province, but when I hear some one who say that the other provinces pay for us let me tell you that it's pretty insulting, that there's more chance that we pay for you and yes it is ignorance, that's why in Montreal and Qu�bec you will see some hostile peoples to that kind of "discours". So don't worry Annie, your "precious" money don't goes to me, far from it, in other words ; you're not paying for bums like me ;P. If the economy is slow ***now*** it's because of the Bois d'oeuvre, but it's far to be the a problem, the most important ressource we have is our hydroelectric capacity, wich is the most important in the world, wich is also far to be exploited enough, because we are forced to send money else where like Ottwa, that's what I meant when I said that Ottawa was keeping us from exploiting our ressources. 5 years ago we we're the most explosive economy in Canada don't forget it and probably than in some years we will be again.

Regarding Western Canada, the growth rates out there are explosive (except Sask., but Manitoba is even growing), and an increasingly diversified economy.

The problem with Canada is that Ontarians by history and culture have been brain washed into thinking that Quebec is an equal partner in Canada. But that is whishful thinking really in today's context. It won't be long before Ontario has twice the people that Quebec has and nearly three times the economy. When that day comes that Ontarians realize not only can they take over the running of Canada but it is their obligation to do so, that day will be a bad day for Quebec.

Twice population ? Maybe ... I don't think it will happen but maybe... Three times the economy ? You're dreaming, you don't have enough ressources, why ? because it is us who is extracting these ressources, the only thing you're doing is to transform and manifacturing them, and that's why if we seperate us we wont be kept to start to manifacture them by ottawa any more, Ontario then wont be able to stand his economy, no longer. That's why we use souverainet� instead of independance, souverainet� means more capacity to deal with our founds, without stoping the relations with the other provinces.


The only brainwash I see is that you beleive that other provinces depends of Ontario, wich is far to be true. You beleive that Qu�bec depends of you but it's far to be true.

[Edited on 18-9-2003 by Salem]

oh dear, calm down ppl tis only a thread.

BTW I'm a Canadian and I am proud of our great nation, from the largest acheivement to the littlest most subtle ones.

Originally posted by Salem

Let's clarify one thing for you and Annie, mostly Annie because she seems to think that BC is paying for every one in Canada, is that federal taxes here in province of Qu�bec are a lot higher than in any other provinces ( not surprising if we can't clear the debt at the same speed than you ), that the population here is higher too, ottawa receive more money from us than any other province and then ... they only send us back 78% of this money, not a bad thing thought, we need to help other province, but when I hear some one who say that the other provinces pay for us let me tell you that it's pretty insulting, that there's more chance that we pay for you and yes it is ignorance, that's why in Montreal and Qu�bec you will see some hostile peoples to that kind of "discours". So don't worry Annie, your "precious" money don't goes to me, far from it, in other words ; you're not paying for bums like me ;P.

Salem, let me clarify things for you! I never called you a bum, in fact I said most of the bums are in BC! Secondly, I never said our province was paying for the rest of Canada. I hardly think BC is better than the rest of Canada or is doing better than the rest of the Canada. You're the one sitting there talking about how your province is too good for us and how you're all hard done by. It is well known that the Western provinces get the least percentage back from federal taxes ... and I don't mean dollars because yes we have less people .. I mean percentage of what we pay! Now that we're getting the 2010 winter olympics, we may finally get a decent transit system out here. And just because I say this does NOT mean I am suggesting we pay for the rest of Canada! It simply means that Ottawa is in the east and we in the west get left by the way side.

And next time don't put words in my mouth, I really hate when people do that!

And I'm sorry, but I disagree with you about the resources. Alberta and BC have the most important resources, especially Alberta. This is just my opinion, have fun trying to prove me wrong.

[Edited on 19-9-2003 by MessedUpAnnie]

Originally posted by MessedUpAnnie

Originally posted by Salem

Let's clarify one thing for you and Annie, mostly Annie because she seems to think that BC is paying for every one in Canada, is that federal taxes here in province of Qu�bec are a lot higher than in any other provinces ( not surprising if we can't clear the debt at the same speed than you ), that the population here is higher too, ottawa receive more money from us than any other province and then ... they only send us back 78% of this money, not a bad thing thought, we need to help other province, but when I hear some one who say that the other provinces pay for us let me tell you that it's pretty insulting, that there's more chance that we pay for you and yes it is ignorance, that's why in Montreal and Qu�bec you will see some hostile peoples to that kind of "discours". So don't worry Annie, your "precious" money don't goes to me, far from it, in other words ; you're not paying for bums like me ;P.

Salem, let me clarify things for you! I never called you a bum, in fact I said most of the bums are in BC! Secondly, I never said our province was paying for the rest of Canada. I hardly think BC is better than the rest of Canada or is doing better than the rest of the Canada. You're the one sitting there talking about how your province is too good for us and how you're all hard done by. It is well known that the Western provinces get the least percentage back from federal taxes ... and I don't mean dollars because yes we have less people .. I mean percentage of what we pay! Now that we're getting the 2010 winter olympics, we may finally get a decent transit system out here. And just because I say this does NOT mean I am suggesting we pay for the rest of Canada! It simply means that Ottawa is in the east and we in the west get left by the way side.

And next time don't put words in my mouth, I really hate when people do that!

And I'm sorry, but I disagree with you about the resources. Alberta and BC have the most important resources, especially Alberta. This is just my opinion, have fun trying to prove me wrong.

[Edited on 19-9-2003 by MessedUpAnnie]

My apologies then, sincerely sorry, when you said "bums" I thought it was for me

I didn't expect you to think my province is too good for you, Neo expected that we we're a bunch of welfare, so it's normal that my patriotism went up. I'm sorry but if some one has said this on BC, maybe you could understand why I'm talking like that

BTW : No that's my opinion again... But we got a lot of ressources, if you say that alberta has more ressources then every where else maybe it's true, you're refering to the oil they have ?

There's a lot more than just lumberjack and farmers in Canada. You guys are just blind-judging.

Get real.

"Fiji? I�ve noticed that when most Americans think about Canada in this time, they think about pine trees, chooks and back-bacon. It may interest you to know that most Canadians in 2036 are some of the most efficient, ruthless and dangerous people I know. God help Quebec. "

What the hell was that suposed to mean? I think that it's actually cool that French have successfully resisted the assimilation of the English language. English is used a lot here too, and I don't think it's a bad think. But speaking French makes us a little special. And those who hate french people just because they speak french, well f*ck 'em. They're not worth our respect either.

Originally posted by m0rbid
There's a lot more than just lumberjack and farmers in Canada. You guys are just blind-judging.

Get real.

"Fiji? I�ve noticed that when most Americans think about Canada in this time, they think about pine trees, chooks and back-bacon. It may interest you to know that most Canadians in 2036 are some of the most efficient, ruthless and dangerous people I know. God help Quebec. "

What the hell was that suposed to mean? I think that it's actually cool that French have successfully resisted the assimilation of the English language. English is used a lot here too, and I don't think it's a bad think. But speaking French makes us a little special. And those who hate french people just because they speak french, well f*ck 'em. They're not worth our respect either.

Yeah, like if they are able to do something against us ( I'm talking of racists ), when I was in toronto some stupid racists attacked me and my friend, and at 7 vs 2, they loosed. Bunch of loosers ( I'm talking of the racists ) How can you loose at 7 vs 2 ? please tell me


[Edited on 19-9-2003 by Salem]

[Edited on 19-9-2003 by Salem]

Salem- Wait, you said racist. Where you attacked because you spoke french or because of your skin tone? 7 against 2 seems pretty bad, but a lot of people haven't been a good fight in years. They probably saw the ruthless efficiency that one goon was dispatched with and left # tracks in their wake.

One tip for those that get into a fight, keep your arms and stuff towards the "inside" of your body. If you start swinging around like fool your likely to get caught by someone or something and you're down arm. Notice how boxers are always huddled inward a little.

Originally posted by ktprktpr
Salem- Wait, you said racist. Where you attacked because you spoke french or because of your skin tone? 7 against 2 seems pretty bad, but a lot of people haven't been a good fight in years. They probably saw the ruthless efficiency that one goon was dispatched with and left # tracks in their wake.

One tip for those that get into a fight, keep your arms and stuff towards the "inside" of your body. If you start swinging around like fool your likely to get caught by someone or something and you're down arm. Notice how boxers are always huddled inward a little.

I was attacked because I talk French, most French Canadians are white and I am. But color doesn't matter until we are in the same mood
These guys were from a gang, I don't know if they fight often but they sux

One tip too : In team fights, put your back near a wall so you wont get attacked from behind keep a 4-5 metres between you and your teamate, so they wont be able to isolate you and you wont risk to hit your friend in the melee.

Ho and if some one get too close from you... Use your head, try to strike the nose with it.

I'm reservist, it gaved me the opporunity to know a lot of English canadians and I like them, really, they are cool, but like there's racists here, there's racists in english Canada, it always seems to be the smallest, thinest, uglyest and the more dumbs who are the more racists.

Just look Hitler

[Edited on 19-9-2003 by Salem]

"One in four small Canadian businesses hurt by stronger Cdn dollar: CIBC"

I can't believe your money is called the Loonie. It sounds like Canada should somehow, magically, de-invest themselves from the US and enjoy their stronger dollar. But I don't think that's going to happen.

"Tal said small firms in Ontario are the most vulnerable to the dollar's appreciation, due to the province's large exposure to the United States and its reliance on the auto industry, which exports a vast majority of the vehicles it produces.

In addition, a disproportionately high number of small businesses in Ontario are directly linked to large exporting corporations.

The next most vulnerable province is British Columbia due to its reliance on the forestry industry, Tal said. Small firms in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland are less sensitive to the potential damage of a strong dollar, in part due to their reliance on the oil and gas sector. "

www.canada.com...

Originally posted by ktprktpr
"One in four small Canadian businesses hurt by stronger Cdn dollar: CIBC"

I can't believe your money is called the Loonie.

It sounds like Canada should somehow, magically, de-invest themselves from the US and enjoy their stronger dollar. But I don't think that's going to happen.

"Tal said small firms in Ontario are the most vulnerable to the dollar's appreciation, due to the province's large exposure to the United States and its reliance on the auto industry, which exports a vast majority of the vehicles it produces.

In addition, a disproportionately high number of small businesses in Ontario are directly linked to large exporting corporations.

The next most vulnerable province is British Columbia due to its reliance on the forestry industry, Tal said. Small firms in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland are less sensitive to the potential damage of a strong dollar, in part due to their reliance on the oil and gas sector. "

www.canada.com...

The weaknest of our dollars give us an advantage for exportation, when your the neightbor of the number one nation in the world, it's pretty hard for a country like Canada who has a small economy ( It hurt to say it but it's true ) to ensure his competivity.

Here in qu�bec we see a lot of americans who cross the fronter to buy stuff at better price.

Man I don't know anymore. Check this out:

www.canada.com...

"Within the next six months, about 35 bars and clubs in Vancouver are expected to be hooked into the Barwatch system."

Is this some harebrained plot to associate ID cards with fun, sex and alcohol! Are they training the Pavlovian aspect of the Canadian mind to salivate at National ID Card!?

And it looks like serious discussion is occurring about a nation id card system (for immigrants only, or for everyone?)

"Immigration Minister Denis Coderre downplayed a Commons committee report Tuesday that said his proposal to create a national ID card could cost almost $7 billion and infringe on privacy. "

www.canada.com...

I do like the thinking involved, however, the noble New Democrat MP Pat Martin says:

""We believe this is the genesis of a boondoggle, this is how boondoggles start," said New Democrat MP Pat Martin.
"We would send a message to the minister that the people have spoken on this subject and it should be scrapped." "

This guy on slashdot did some very good research on BarWatch. I paraphrase, here's a snap shot:

- BarWatch donated $5,000 to the right-wing Liberal party, which runs the province.

- the Liberal party was behind a fight with work comp at BC over second hand smoke. The LIberals changed the law and removed some "WCB" ventialiation requirements.

- Liberals have passed privacy legislation www.legis.gov.bc.ca... that allows personal info disclosure collected at a performance open to the public ... and not tell the individual what information they have, if that informatino would reveal confidential commerical information and may harm their competitive position.

- BarWatch has video taped its patrons for three years www.mta.ca... It's not the first time either. The data was used for marketing.

- "On his geocities resume web site, Bradley Shende www.geocities.com... he says,

Barwatch is an original concept. It's purpose was to establish communication between licensed establishments and the various branches of municipal law enforcement and regulation to create a forum of co-operation rather than adversity, and to set standards by which we would all operate our licensed premises. The organization has been a success over the years and is now branched out into the US and all over Canada." The chair and spokesman of Barwatch is Vance Campbell.

slashdot.org...

Salem,

hate to rain on your parade but Quebec is treated differently than any other province in Canada when it comes to money.

In Canada we have a system they call transfer payments. How it works is that we assess federal and provincial income tax on each employed persons pay. The money in every case is sent to Ottawa our national capital, except for Quebec which gets its money up front. Each employer must forward Quebecs taxed directly to Quebec.

But the real stinker in all this is that Quebec gets to keep 100% of what it claims against your pay while the other provinces have to put up with two things from Ottawa the federal government:

1. Wait for the transfer payment from Ottawa
2. Accept a portion of the amount deducted on their behalf as some provinces pay more in then they get out and others vice versa.

Quebec avoids both these issues.
How do I know? I am an accountant and I have done many payrolls, that is how I know.


Kpt,

yeah this country called Canada is a left wing globalist paradise. Take it from me. But I blame part of this on the US though, you guys ignored the politics up here for years and now we are little more than like Cuba.

This is how I like to describe Canada
"The United States without the bull-#"

The national ID cards are not going to be implemented so everybody can relax. An interesting note though, is that the man trying to sell the national ID card idea is an American lawyer from Harvard University.

I'm a predicting Canada to make a sharp turn right when Jean Chr�tien leaves office. Most citizens aren't aware, but the future leader of the Liberal party has very conservative style thinking. I'm really starting to get worried. There have been numerous reports that he has already had meetings with the US government, and is vowing to expand Canada's role in the war on terrorism.........this is not good news

The last thing I want, is for Canada to be associated with the Bush Administration. This will bring nothing but trouble!

Killuminati- that's what i was trying to point out. Canada looks like a beautiful wonderful place, but given the news, the currents are changing...

Kill,

you obviously didn't read my posting for the ties between Paul Martin and Maurice Strong. Strong is a darling of the UN and what they call mulitlateralism or annother word for world socialism.

I do not see good times ahead.

Originally posted by THENEO
Salem,

hate to rain on your parade but Quebec is treated differently than any other province in Canada when it comes to money.

Sorry to

In Canada we have a system they call transfer payments. How it works is that we assess federal and provincial income tax on each employed persons pay. The money in every case is sent to Ottawa our national capital, except for Quebec which gets its money up front. Each employer must forward Quebecs taxed directly to Quebec.

But the real stinker in all this is that Quebec gets to keep 100% of what it claims against your pay while the other provinces have to put up with two things from Ottawa the federal government:

1. Wait for the transfer payment from Ottawa
2. Accept a portion of the amount deducted on their behalf as some provinces pay more in then they get out and others vice versa.

Quebec avoids both these issues.
How do I know? I am an accountant and I have done many payrolls, that is how I know.

It's true when you say than we have a special treatment when it comes for money. We have federal taxes and provincial taxes, fedaral taxes get to Ottawa and provincial go to Qu�bec. After paying Provincial taxes we only need 15% ( somthing like 14,89 % ) of the federal taxes back to keep the province healthy.
This is where comes from the myth that Canada pay for us.

How I know ? 19 years of my life spent in my province and my studies in economics and politics.

Originally posted by ktprktpr
(But John Titor tells me not to

)

now theres someone who believes the word, and sadly i think i do too.