S-4 Papoose Mountain

Shadowhawk
After his Nevada Test Site trip he said he was forced to abandon all his gear, even his cameras so he had not proof of his journey. Why didn't he just take the film out and put it in his pocket?

I was always intrigued by this comment. "that was my uncle...and there is more to the story. the only reason he talked to the press is because it was his form of self-preservation. his life was threatened. there was security."

Shadowhawk
By "archaeologist" I assume you mean Jerry Freeman, the same guy who supposedly discovered a chest full of artifacts of the Death Valley 49ers that later turned out to be a hoax.

www.desertusa.com...

After his Nevada Test Site trip he said he was forced to abandon all his gear, even his cameras so he had not proof of his journey. Why didn't he just take the film out and put it in his pocket?

My recollection of the original LV Sun article had a photograph of a structure on the NTS taken by Freeman. The LV Sun web archive is not complete. Unless somebody beats me to it, the only way to check this would be to print out the article from the LV Sun microfiche.

I don't know, but there's something that doesn't sit well with me about the whole 'S-4/Papoose Mtn' thing.

Why would you drill or excavate a mountain x miles away from an already established base when you could simply excavate under the existing facility and have a faux building site above ground to cover for the excavation debris and all that.

It just seems to me to be another illusion/hoax/story from around Groom.

I await the calls of me being a dis-info agent.

AussieNutter
I don't know, but there's something that doesn't sit well with me about the whole 'S-4/Papoose Mtn' thing.

Why would you drill or excavate a mountain x miles away from an already established base when you could simply excavate under the existing facility and have a faux building site above ground to cover for the excavation debris and all that.

It just seems to me to be another illusion/hoax/story from around Groom.

I await the calls of me being a dis-info agent.

Actually, digging into the side of a mountain is generally a better idea than just digging underground. A mountain basically has stood the test of time (more likely to be stable dirt), plus no ground water issue. Assuming Lazar just made up his story (uh, good assumption), there is great precedence for carving out mountains for military use. But that side of Pappose is easily viewed from commercial air traffic. It would be a terrible place to do anything in secret.

Tom Mahood talked a bit about Area 19, and somewhat regrettably. But Area 19 is a very difficult place to snoop on, so it was a good theory for a location of nefarious activity. Basically Lazar should have made up a location more central to the NTTR.

Tom is back on the internet again, and his new website is quite entertaining. He was recently attacked by a drone.
On the other hand

gariac

Shadowhawk
By "archaeologist" I assume you mean Jerry Freeman, the same guy who supposedly discovered a chest full of artifacts of the Death Valley 49ers that later turned out to be a hoax.

www.desertusa.com...

After his Nevada Test Site trip he said he was forced to abandon all his gear, even his cameras so he had not proof of his journey. Why didn't he just take the film out and put it in his pocket?

My recollection of the original LV Sun article had a photograph of a structure on the NTS taken by Freeman. The LV Sun web archive is not complete. Unless somebody beats me to it, the only way to check this would be to print out the article from the LV Sun microfiche.

Is it here? I tried to get the entire article, including pictures.
www.topsecretbases.com...

reply to post by FosterVS


The entire article with original images is archived here.

I reread the article. I have two issues. One, he isn't specifically credited with the photographs. Perhaps the newspaper got them from another source. However, there is nothing in the article to indicate he was forced to get rid his film, so those photographs could be his. Note that when on the NTS tour, no photography is allowed. However the NTS does publish photos of places around the range. A tin eye search did not find any other copies of the photos in the LV Sun article. Playing devil's advocate though, the image of the shack is monochrome, which could imply some photographer was trying to get artsy. The other photographs are color. The mix of color and monochrome film is odd.

The other issue I have is with Freeman's route. Glenn Campbell and an unnamed posse made a trip to Mount Cury. It is located at N36 40 33.7 W115 57 05.2, though not all maps show the name. Here are Glenn's directions:
Mt. Cury hike
This is a shorter path than Freeman took, and it would avoid the busier part of the NTS. Possibly Freeman picked a route with less elevation change rather than less distance. Elevation charge requires work, both literally and in the strict scientific definition of force times distance.

I'm still leaning towards it being more likely than not that he made the trip. There is nothing outlandish about his claims.

reply to post by gariac


I wasn't clear about the part where he discovers the base. Where is he located at that point, coming from what point? How is it that he's taken surprise by the base's existence? You'd figure he'd know exactly what's there before going in.

dogshark
reply to post by gariac

 

I wasn't clear about the part where he discovers the base. Where is he located at that point, coming from what point? How is it that he's taken surprise by the base's existence? You'd figure he'd know exactly what's there before going in.

Google Earth came out in 2001. The trip was in 1997. How would he know what to expect? Everything is hidden behind mountains.

The Terraserver predates Google Earth, but there was no NTS coverage. The imagery from fas.org came out in 2000, but it wasn't like you had the full searchable imagery like the Terraserver or Google Earth provided. The USGS sold prints or microfiche of their imagery, but it didn't cover the NTS.

People lose track of what things were like even 10 years ago. I have a pile of USGS topo maps on something you call paper! ;-) You could buy a basic GPS today (but not a mapping grade unit) for what I've spent on paper maps. C'est la vie.

reply to post by gariac


What I meant was, there's a part in his journal where he describes coming upon a "city" full of activity and security, and being shocked to find it. I'm not saying he should have had satellite pictures of the entire terrain, but the existence of the base was no secret at that time. Also, I was wondering if anyone could tell from the story and from his route map, where he was viewing the base from, and how he had gotten to that point. I'm having trouble understanding his route from the article.

reply to post by dogshark


I don't think Jerry ever made it near Groom Lake. Maybe he saw it off in the distance. I think the activity he saw was at the NTS.

Incidentally, if there was something like a Freedom of "No" Information Act, one way to check Freeman's story would be to see if the NTS ever released photos such as in the article. For instance the "potential crater" image. I think such a photo, presuming one was never released officially, would be hard to find. That is, no NTS base worker would take such a shot and slip it to Freeman.

reply to post by gariac


You're right, it wasn't Groom. I was way off. Sounds like he was on top of Skull Mountain, I assume looking down into whatever's located in Jackass Flats. He identifies it in the story as a LANL facility. Is that right and if so what is it?

Route map

reply to post by dogshark


Ugh, I don't want to read the whole thing again. But do you really think he would go on top of a mountain? That takes works. The route looks like he went between Little Skull Mountain and Skull Mountain. If so, he would be looking at Area 25, with Jackass Flats occupying the western edge of Area 25.

Take a look using the Google Earth NTS overlay. If your system is set up properly, the link should fire up Google Earth, but it might take a while.
NTS overlay

I believe Jackass Flats is abandoned. It was the site of a number of failed nuclear powered rockets and aircraft. I met one of the machinists that worked on Project Pluto. It got canned before the switch was ever thrown. But the eastern side of area 25 might have some activity.

"Nevermind" / ignore

reply to post by gariac


Very cool overlay! Had not seen it before, thanks for posting.

dogshark
reply to post by gariac

 

Very cool overlay! Had not seen it before, thanks for posting.

Seconded!

Thanks as well for bringing Tom Mahood's blog to my attention, I found the bits on the search for Bill Ewasco compelling as well.

reply to post by meshuggah1324


This is the most current thread and I don't want to create a new one so i'm going to ask here..

Report: Area 51 Builds Massive Pyramid

n past we reported "Pyramids Globally Beaming Energy To Mysterious Space Cloud". Now in another interesting development Google Earth reveal giant Pyramid near Area 51 base.

Why have they built a gigantic pyramid like structure there in Area 51? Is Area 51 trying to harness mysterious ancient technology?

Is this MORE PROOF of ‘alien technology’ here in America? Something strange is certainly going on and for some reason, our own government doesn’t want us to know about it.



www.pinterest.com...

hosted.verticalresponse.com...

______beforeitsnews/military/2012/02/report-area-51-builds-massive-alien-pyramid-1801346.html

groups.google.com...#!msg/pakalert/x-mUerS6Bp8/X6IkXXEWbsUJ

pakistancyberforce.blogspot.com...

Interesting.....but it is NOT a pyramid, it is a tetrahedron.

Pyramids have a four sided or square base (total = 5 sides), tetrahedrons are a triangle base (total = 4 sides).

Therefore this structure at A51 Cannot have the "Powers and Forces" of a Pyramid.

Unless the US military dont know how to build a pyramid.....which is possible. .

reply to post by gort51


There is no mystery here, and this structure is not at Area 51. A simple search of ATS would have found several discussions about the three-sided pyramid, etc., that is constantly being discovered "near Area 51." The three-sided pyramid (tetrahedron) is Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's Big Explosives Experimental Facility (BEEF) in Area 4 of the Department of Energy's Nevada Test Site.

www2.nstec.com...

The BEEF is a hydrodynamic testing facility, located about 95 miles northwest of Las Vegas and about 12 miles east of the Test Site's central Control Point. The need for the BEEF site originated when, due to community encroachment near the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL) facility in Livermore, California, DOE was no longer allowed to perform large high explosive experiments at the facility's Site 300, Shaped Charge Scaling Project.

Therefore looking at the NTS as a location to continue to perform these large high explosive experiments, two earth-covered, two-foot thick steel reinforced concrete bunkers, built to monitor atmospheric tests at Yucca Flat in the 1950s, were located and found to be ideally configured. The facility consists of a control bunker, a camera bunker, a gravel firing table, and associated control and diagnostic systems.

The facility has conducted conventional high-explosives experiments using a testbed that provides sophisticated diagnostics such as high-speed optics and x-ray radiography on the firing table, while operating personnel are present in the bunker. The WATUSI experiment at the BEEF in September 2002 sought to show that existing seismic and infrasound sensors at the Test Site and across the western U.S. that were used in the days of underground nuclear testing still can detect and characterize explosions accurately. The yield of the experiment was equivalent to approximately 37,000 pounds of TNT (37 kilotons).

Shadowhawk
reply to post by gort51

 

The yield of the experiment was equivalent to approximately 37,000 pounds of TNT (37 kilotons).

I know it is a simple error but due to the "enthusiastic" nature of some of the ATS readership, it should be pointed out that 37,000 lbs is just .016782918 kilotons.

37kt would leave a sports stadium sized crater.

On the other hand, I would fall out of my chair laughing to see a future UFOlgy thread based on rumors that alien technology from Roswell was used to create nuclear proof buildings at area 51 as verified by Shadowhawk