Abbas threatens resignation

I invite you all to check out an article by the Associated Press which appeared in the New York Post

Since it's in the breaking news section the link might be temporary so I will quote the main points briefly here.

Abbas told legislators he must be given full power to carry out reforms required by the "road map" peace plan. If the demand is met, Abbas would have a stronger hand against militants he is pressing to stop attacks against Israelis.

Abbas would have more sway over militant groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad if he fully controlled the armed services, but Arafat doesn't want to give up one of his last concrete sources of power.

Yet, he said that "without a legitimate force in the hands of one authority ... we will not advance one step on the political track" - a reference to the road map, which foresees Palestinian statehood by 2005.

The Palestinian U.N. representative, Nasser al-Kidwa, said the Palestinians remain committed to the road map.

"What is necessary now is to revitalize the road map," he said. "It needs a new beginning - but a serious beginning, involving the genuine commitment on both sides to comply with the road map. We are ready to do that."

What we have here is the PM of the Palestinian government and it's UN rep saying that they want the road map to work. We have the PM asking that he be given the necessary tools to make it work. We have Arafat denying him this. Why? Because giving PM Abbas those tools will allow the peace process to work. The roadmap requires Hamas and Islamic Jihad to stop carrying out their attacks, and PM Abbas indicated his need for a real security force to help him in negotiations and to control those groups. But Arafat is refusing him this request. By doing this he proves himself to not only be an asshole but to be a hurdle in the path of peace for his own people. After all the rhetoric he makes about how everything is Israel's fault, he will not even help his own Prime Minister accomplish anything. And if you think I'm wrong in that point, PM Abbas would not threaten to resign if there were no problems here.

I anxiously await comments from everyone on both sides of this debate. I want to know what your feelings are on the frustration the Prime Minister of the Palestinian people is having because of Arafat. I want to know what your feelings are on the way that Arafat has shown his burning desire not to see TWO states side by side. This is truly a very interesting turn of events.

If this roadmap thing can be made to work, I just might end up voting Republican next year. It would be an amazing piece of diplomacy.

My guess is that Abbas will lose this power struggle. I'd rather see him win, but there is Arafat...

We can only wait and see. And pray for peace.

The only thing that is preventing peace is Arafat. As long as he remains in control there will be no peace. Lets not forget the Munich Olympics which he helped orcastrate. He was, is and always will be a terrorist. I have read on a web site I frequent, this was awhile ago, that there had been plans to snatch Arafat and dump him somewhere in the mid east. Apparently these plans never materlized.

Face it, if Arafat was truly interested in having peace, and a country for his people, he would have stepped down and given up any control he has. Unfortunately, as long as Arafat is on the scene the road map to peace will not work.

2? 2 replies with all of the active posters who are always talking about the Israel/Palestine conflict?

Come on guys, where are you? I see all of you people posting huge amounts of replies when someone makes a thread calling sharon the next hitler, how come when I post an article proving Arafat to be an enemy of peace none of you reply? Where's the fairness? I didn't make the article up, I just passed it along. Surely some of my esteemed pals on here who I debate these things with have some comments and criticisms of Arafat's heavy handed policies....
nada, jakomo, fulcrum, dany? have you read this yet? i honestly want to know what you think.

I kind of think it's a blame game. Blame Arafat! He's destroying the roadmap (while Israel continues to build settlements and bulldoze Palestinian land for their Security Fence).

I find it hard to believe that Abbas would be able to reign in the militants any more than Arafat could. They're MILITANTS. Some of them are fanatical militants. The PM can talk to them till he's blue in the face and if they want to continue attacks, they'll do it, with or without sanction for the PA.

In the same article "In the West Bank near Jenin, Israeli soldiers shot dead a Palestinian man who emerged from a car stopped at a checkpoint and pointed a gun at them, an army spokesman said.
Palestinian witnesses said soldiers shot the man after ordering him to take off his shirt -- apparently to see whether he might be wearing a suicide bomber's explosive belt.
Palestinian officials identified him as a 21-year-old student leader of the militant Islamic Jihad group."

The Palestinian Prime Minister could be Mahatma frickin Gandhi, and with provocations like this, NOTHING will ever be solved. Do you think this 21-year old called up Abbas and asked him for permission?

Arafat is ineffectual, and should get the hell out of there and let others clean up his mess. There needs to be new faces with new ideas.

And Arafat isn't an enemy of peace, he's just a moron. Or if he is an enemy of peace, then so is his counterpart Sharon. Israel has consistently tried to derail the roadmap since day one, and I don't believe they will ever comply with any of the roadmap items that they disagree with (Palestinians Right of Return for example).

I dunno Jak... looks like to me like the return of 2 palestinian towns was cancelled because of the bus bombing. An event which would not have happened if Palestine's real Prime Minister had the power to keep those things in check. So we see Arafat being the cause of that being allowed to happen. And yes, like I've said many times I do consider Sharon an old warhorse as well. What I hope to accomplish here is to show that it's not always just Israel's leaders doing stupid crap. I'm glad you agree with me that Arafat is a moron though.
Anyone else have some thoughts on this, or is the silence a sign of no rebuttal from the usual crew?

The Palestinian U.N. representative, Nasser al-Kidwa, said the Palestinians remain committed to the road map.

Yeah, sure they do...except for the Palestinians who will wreck it with a few car bombs, and exploding "martyrs"....

Originally posted by Jakomo
I find it hard to believe that Abbas would be able to reign in the militants any more than Arafat could. They're MILITANTS. Some of them are fanatical militants. The PM can talk to them till he's blue in the face and if they want to continue attacks, they'll do it, with or without sanction for the PA.

Whoah! Did Jakomo write that?!

You begin to see the problem here. If Abbas can�t stop the violence, and Arafat can�t stop the violence, then who is Israel supposed to negotiate with and what are they supposed to negotiate for? They can�t negotiate for peace because these people don�t have it to offer. All they can do is make concessions and get nothing in return for it. If the Palestinian Authority can�t restrain Palistinian-Arabs from carrying out terrorist attacks, then they can�t rightfully call themselves a government that represents the Palestinian-Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza.

Originally posted by Jakomo
The Palestinian Prime Minister could be Mahatma frickin Gandhi, and with provocations like this, NOTHING will ever be solved. Do you think this 21-year old called up Abbas and asked him for permission?

Just think if they were Mahatma Gandhi, eh? The truth is non-violent protest works, you would think they would give it a try after 55 years.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Arafat is ineffectual, and should get the hell out of there and let others clean up his mess. There needs to be new faces with new ideas.

It looks like you and I are finding some common ground here.

Only some would argue that Arafat isn�t as ineffectual as he claims to be. Violence starts and stops on his command, there are many who believe his claiming to be ineffectual is just a ploy.

Originally posted by Jakomo
And Arafat isn't an enemy of peace, he's just a moron. Or if he is an enemy of peace, then so is his counterpart Sharon

If you look at how long Arafat has been in charge versus how long Sharon has, then you begin to see the problem.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Israel has consistently tried to derail the roadmap since day one, and I don't believe they will ever comply with any of the roadmap items that they disagree with (Palestinians Right of Return for example).

Sorry to disillusion you, but Right of Return isn�t on the Roadmap. The Roadmap is a two state solution, and the Right of Return is incompatible with that ideal. You can read the text of the Roadmap plan here:

www.state.gov...

Well said Jakomo....did you really say that?

regards
seekerof

Only some would argue that Arafat isn�t as ineffectual as he claims to be. Violence starts and stops on his command, there are many who believe his claiming to be ineffectual is just a ploy.

Of course it starts and stops (for the most part) on his command, as he's the one funding them... How the hell a known terrorist became confused with a "politician" is anyone's guess.... Hell, when I was a kid in the 80's, his name was synonymous with terrorism....

Does anyone notice that when the Palestinians are about to gain new ground, like, the return of some towns, Israeli withdrawal, that they start bombming? thas like the equiviliant of, say, the state lottery sending you your first payment, then you send hitmen to the lotto office to shoot the employees..what kind of sense is that?

Doesnt anyone find this......a little odd?

Skadi,

Yup! It is odd, isn�t it? Why do you think terrorists always sabotage the peace process every time progress is made?

To understand it, you have to understand that large portions of the Palestinian militants don�t want a two state solution. They want to liberate all of Palestine, and their definition includes the state of Israel. That is, they still want to destroy Israel. If progress is made on a two state solution and peace is achieved with a second Palestinian-Arab state, then they lose on this larger goal. Once the West Bank becomes Palestine and their populations are governing themselves, world opinion will no longer support a continued struggle, there would be no more excuse for violence against Israel.

Or Israel is helping the attacks along, and instigating them, via false intelligence, to continue justification for them to go marching in and kicking the # out of the Palestinians.

That is another hypothesis. Which one do you think passes Occam's Razor?

On one hand you have militant Palestinian-Arab organizations that openly say they want to liberate all of Palestine, on the other hand you have conjecture with no supporting evidence except that believing it allows you to think really bad things about Israel.

And on the other hand, you have the racist Zionist Israeli govornment that thinks it represents the interests of jews worldwide by instating Nazi type brutality tactics and indiscriminate bombings and raids for the slightest provocation. If the Palestinians stopped boming the # out of israel, and behaved, then israel would lsoe its justification for attacking them, as well as lose alot of support in the US next time it lobs a missile into a Palestinian school.

Which Theory indeed?

Yeah, yeah, I said all of it..

I never claimed to be rabidly pro-Palestinian, and in support of all their efforts.

BUT, I'm careful to say "militants". You can't paint all Palestinians as potential suicide bombers. You just can't. Look at your neighborhood, your city, your country. Is everyone the same, with the same hopes and dreams and same aspirations and same opinions? Of course not, if I suggested it, you would jump all over me. Afford the Palestinians the same courtesy.

And as to the right of return:

www.newsmax.com...

"One large sticking point concerns the Palestinian insistence on a "right of return" of the Palestinian refugees to the homes they left in the 1948 war. Israel says this would tilt the population overwhelmingly in favor of the Palestinians and obliterate the identity of a Palestinian state.

Officially, the Israelis want the issue brought forward from its place in the road map timetable, and discussed early. Hard liners would prefer it not to be discussed at all.

"Without a total unequivocal withdrawal of these demands for the right of return there will not be any major breakthrough in the future," said Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. "There can be nothing left for future interpretations.""

Not a large chance at negotiation from one side. And if it's not in the official Road Map then it was "discussed" early and deleted. Doesn't seem very big of the Israeli side to completely and unequivocally deny a major issue that would help move everyone towards peace. And fast. You can't blame that one on old Arafart.

Yeah, I see it.


jakomo

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
And on the other hand, you have the racist Zionist Israeli govornment that thinks it represents the interests of jews worldwide by instating Nazi type brutality tactics and indiscriminate bombings and raids for the slightest provocation. If the Palestinians stopped boming the # out of israel, and behaved, then israel would lsoe its justification for attacking them, as well as lose alot of support in the US next time it lobs a missile into a Palestinian school.

Which Theory indeed?

So how come after 36 years, the Palestinian-Arabs haven�t figured this out? They could defeat this evil racist Zionist conspiracy simply by refraining from bombing the # out of Israel. It takes brains to fight the war they fight. They�re not stupid.

Occam�s Razor, baby.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Yeah, yeah, I said all of it..

I never claimed to be rabidly pro-Palestinian, and in support of all their efforts.

Wow, Jakomo! Keep this up and you will become a moderate!

I agree with you. You can�t paint all Palestinian-Arabs as anything. People are people wherever you go, and most people just want to be able to earn a living and raise their families. The Palestinian-Arabs have had the misfortune of having their lives governed by people that don�t care about them, and I don�t just mean the Israelis.

And for the record, I�m not a rabid Israeli supporter. I support their right to exist as a nation along with their right to defend that nation, and sometimes make a special effort to correct people who don�t seem to understand what�s going on over there, but that�s not the same as supporting every action of the Israeli government.

And as to the right of return:

It�s a sticking point and it always has been. Whatever your opinion, the honest truth is that Israel will never grant it except maybe in some symbolic way. You can call that an unreasonable position, but the truth is it�s just not practical.

Razor indeed.

Perhaps the Palestinians are all too aware of the nature of the media and the world, and know that no one regardless will lift a finger to help them, because the US backs Israel 100%, and thus, they have a choice: let Israel continue to exterminate them, or fight back with what little they have.

Occams razoe indeed. Since they have no allies, and are alone in this struggle save for empty lip service of the arab nations, its either fight back or die like sheep.

And since the nature of Israeli atrocties never really makes headlines or any news in the US, Americans will continue to blindly support Irsael and its racism.

According to the New York Times...Abbas set to quit Saturday, Palestinians say.

Just saw this.

regards
seekerof