Who was John Titor?

Originally posted by RANT
I'm not impressed with any of it

Really?

I thought it was pretty neat, i wasn't there for those original irq chats and all that, but following the discussion threads at places like anomoly.net and all the drama that happened there with amanda and the caller and the secret song to identify the 'real' john titor, the mysterious lawyers that fronted for the titor corporation, the two titor devoted webpages, teh book published by titor's mom of our current time from after he visited himself and his mom while traveling, even the strange theatrical production (apparently with actors and screens showing chat text scrolling away and al) based on it all. Wheh, it was like a whole new form of living-participatory-online theatre. If the person(s) that did it came forward, they might be received as having been quite clever, assuming one person did most of the stuff mentioned. Clearly they'd be permited to smoke Capris with the avante guard crowd while wearing nerd-glasses and reciting #ty poetry at the 'cool' coffee shop, not evil starbucks.

xphiles
No one can really say the Titor story is false, there is no proof of him being a hoax yet.

Why have you ignored all teh evidence that demonstrates that it was a hoax?
Moving on...

The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. Iwould describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.

There has not been a single waco type event since january of 2004. This demonstrates that, even if titor was telling the truth, that there is no way to ever distinguish between that and him being a fraud, since nothing he ever said ever needs come true.
[quote4]There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005.
We are in month 9 out of 12 for 2005. No civil war, not even close. How long do you plan on waiting until rejecting the titor story? 2012? 2015? 2032?

It’s 2004. I apologize for a missed key

This is intersting, because many advocates for titor were saying that 2004 was the error and that he really said it all starts in 2005. But apparently the reverse is the case.

Obviously not apparent to everyone, just shows how well the media and government is in control of things.

Are we going to hear about the civil war and notice the nuking of the cities too eh?

Beware of those who say Titor is a Hoax. They may want you to think Titor is a Hoax so that all this will come true! We can change the future...

So let me get this straight, you honestly beleive this, and are doing....what exactly to prevent the nuclear holocaust that is less than a decade away?? Planning on having kids over the next decade btw?

Just this month we saw plenty of examples in New Orleans!

We've seen not one single event like waco in new orleans, and even if we did, its a year too late and 11 incidents too short.

Probably about 75% of these civilian type of events doesn't make it to the US media.

Absolutely none of these events are anything like waco. And you have to understand why waco was referenced, its because the concoctors of the hoax are playing out a militiaman's wet dream, and they viewed waco as the start of a real war against the evil Democrats and their NWO Federalist Empire, just like Mcveigh.

What predictions? Did he make any predictions?

Titor claims that he didn't make predictions, but this is just silly. Its absurd to say that his story is real, that the things he talked about are comming true, and then say he made no predictions. Titor was, according to the story, reciting history, history that very probably will mostly come true. He effectively made predictions, and they've failed. If you want to play with semantics and say that no, they really aren't predictions, all well and good, but regardless nothing he talked about has happened, and nothing will.

[edit on 14-9-2005 by Nygdan]

ShadowXIX
New Orleans a Waco like event ? Hmm.. cant say I see that connection there. Waco a "cult" gets into a show down with the goverment over '' illegal ''weapons. The stand off result in some 70 deaths when the goverment tries to storm the compound.

New Orleans- A massive hurricane strikes the city massive amounts of people have to flee and be evactuated and in the after math looting takes place.

Yeah that was a Waco style event

Did you miss the news or something? Did you not see the house to house search for weapons in New Orleans?

Waco was supposed to be over illegal weapons charges, which took an 100 man idiot army to make a mess. Some consider what the ATF did was illegal, probably depends what part of the counrty your from...

There is illegal guns all over Texas. These illegal firearms are about as common as cowboy hats and boots in Texas....Fact is there are countless illegal searches for these type of weapons probably every month that doesnt make the news.

I heard about an illegal search just this past month locally where I live..This kind of stuff doesn't make big news. There is probably a reason for that.

illegal guns and illegal searches is not what its all about, its probbaly more about our rights......

Titor doesn't mean exactly Waco events It's not about cults or storms! It may not even about groups. "Waco type events" is a figure of representation, just a symbol of something to come. Not exactly like Waco.

Titor quotes state as it did happen. He wasn't predicting.

ShadowXIX
Besides Titor was not even a orginal fraud he had to rip his story off from Alas Babylon for his future US and ripped off Hyperspace for his time travel story.

LOL this is funny, mix two books together and that proves Titor is a fraud haha.... Is that like the bible code thing lol...
A total joke lol ... Hmmm let me see, you could mix a few Stephen Hawking videos with Star Trek episodes and maybe get something on Titor.

Anyway, I'm just entertaining the thought if he was real.

Nygdan
Why have you ignored all the evidence that demonstrates that it was a hoax?
Moving on...

What evidence... there is no solid proof. I know where you are going with it. lol

Just because some wackos make a webpage or writes a book does not prove a thing.. Zilch Zero
Lot of crazy people claim to be Titor but they cant prove it....


[edit on 14-9-2005 by XPhiles]

Originally posted by XPhiles

Anyway, I'm just entertaining the thought if he was real.

I feel alittle better knowing that you arent buying that a guy is traveling through time in his 1966 Chevrolet Corvette hook line and sinker.

He really should have used a delorean everyone knows thats the prime car time machine

Originally posted by XPhiles
you could mix a few Stephen Hawking videos with Star Trek episodes and maybe get something on Titor.

I've never read alas babylon, but the people that have and are familar with the titor story state that its way more than a similarity, its a direct lifting of even the specific details.

Just because some wackos make a webpage or writes a book does not prove a thing

I agree, however the photos were part of the "cannonical" titor, so to speak, they came from the guy doing the original postings, and they prove fraud.

shadow
He really should have used a delorean everyone knows thats the prime car time machine

The prime car time machine, yes. However, a Phone booth with a big antenna is one of the best overall time machines.


And when time traveling, nothing is better to eat than

lol .... Plus no flux capacitor in his cut-a-way of the time machine pictures? or bending of light? well I wouldn't say that proves there fraudulent.

supposedly expired vehicle registration of Titor's?

If I could time travel I would use my living room recliner and take a bag of popcorn to eat ....

Oh maybe better yet, I will goto COAST TO COAST AM and download the rebroadcast of Oliver Williams and sit back in my recliner and eat popcorn.

Originally posted by Nygdan

shadow
He really should have used a delorean everyone knows thats the prime car time machine

The prime car time machine, yes. However, a Phone booth with a big antenna is one of the best overall time machines.

Oh, COME ON! How can someone with a BBC avatar not be spruiking blue police phone boxes that make strangely distorted siren-like sounds? And possible be selling long woollen scarves as the ultimate fashion accessory. And maybe even have shares in the jellybaby factory?

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by Jay44


Now correct me if im wrong, as I have very minimal amounts of knowledge on this whole black hole thing. But, if it was setup as a machine that mounted inside a car, and these black holes were created outside the vehicle... Wouldnt a laser light shine through the window of the car/truck and bend there? It wouldnt bend inside the vehicle right? or wrong?

If the gravity created inside his car was strong enough to warp space to bend light it wouldn't just effect a laser beam it would effect everything in the car inculding Titor himself. When your talking about black hole levels of gravity it would be strong enough to crush Titor in a nice paste along with his car. Infact it would instantly absorb all nearby matter.

A Blackhole's gravity increases the closer you get to its singularity. You can't have its gravity start a few feet away from where every the black hole is created. Or better yet have it only effect a laser beams light

[edit on 14-9-2005 by ShadowXIX]

Now that was my point. According to some information I found, Creating a blackhole and containing a black hole as of now are considered "doable". IF you pump the black hole full of positively charged particles and enter an object with a negative charge, it will not succum to the gravitational strength of the black whole and stay intact.

Given this theory, The gravity stays outside the car. If you remember what "John" said, "you feel a tug towards the unit. It grows stronger as the unit powers up. Sometimes up to two G's force."

Given that information, we know that Two G's is not enough force to bend light. If you look REAL close at the picture, it appears that the laser light is straight until it hits the window. THEN it bends downward outside the vehicle.



Like I said though, I dont know much at all about this stuff. Im tempted to go into physics now.


EDIT: Something just dawned on me. IF the laser was being bent outside the car, then it wouldnt be visible unless there was smoke outside the car.



Sure looks like it bends outside of the window though.

[edit on 15-9-2005 by Jay44]

To this date John Titor has not been proven to be a fake, no one has collected the reward at adnormallities.net proving him a fake....those here claiming he is a fake are voiceing there opinions.....

He states that there will be a gradual increase in violence till 2008 when it reaches everyones doorstep, then and only then will all admit that civil war is here....when our world the way we know it will be gone forever.

funny all the people posting about JT that have not read more that a couple od pages of his post....

our world resembles the JT foretolf of now that it did before 2000-2001 when he first stated posting his message.

So for you debunkers out there prove to me when you cash the check, and i will tend to believe you, that he is fake untill then...

find a group of friends you trust and stock-pile things you might need to survive when out society falls, like in the first civil war, katrina...ect...ect

buy and read the constitution, study it, and then you can post here why his predictions are comming to light.

peace

Originally posted by Jay44



Now that was my point. According to some information I found, Creating a blackhole and containing a black hole as of now are considered "doable". IF you pump the black hole full of positively charged particles and enter an object with a negative charge, it will not succum to the gravitational strength of the black whole and stay intact.


EDIT: Something just dawned on me. IF the laser was being bent outside the car, then it wouldnt be visible unless there was smoke outside the car.

Sure looks like it bends outside of the window though.

[edit on 15-9-2005 by Jay44]

Good point about the laser anyone that has played around with a laser pointer knows just how much smoke, baby poweder whatever is needed to see the laser. It takes a whole bunch and you only see the laser in the smoke cloud. Even with baby powder which can produce far more of a cloud then anyone blowing smoke from a cigar I cant create a image of the laser any where near that in Titors the picture.

As for containing a black hole I have to look into that. Even though its only a theory Im interested in learning how much energy they estimate would be required to do something like that.

Last time I checked most theories on just producing anything that would be able to bend space enough to make any sort of time travel even possible would require massive amounts of energy for even a small "wormhole" Like all the energy the sun produced in its life time.

Titor was wrong about Y2K. He claimned that it had happened in 'his world'. It failed to occuring this one because of 'timeline' variations. Now that's a build in excuse when anything he predicts doesn't happen.

Besides Y2K was only something programers used to panic clients into paying for extensive, adn unnessecary coe upgrades and de buggins. "The computer's built in clock's are ony proframmed for 100 yrs, adn not 1000.", but the beginning of a new millineum is also be the beginning of a new century. The joke is that people believed it, and payed good money to have their computers debugged. Y2K is practically proof that Titor was creating fiction.

[edit on 15-9-2005 by GrandCourtJester]

Im not saying he is a fake. Im just looking and trying to make sense of it all. The whole thing about y2k is that the people they were referring to are people that use age old systems, and for the most part they were right.

That can happen and it would have if the people had not found a fix.

I read every bit of info on john titor once I found out about it recently. (A bit late I know.) I know that at one point he did state that "Im suprised that you people dont wonder why Y2K didnt happen to you." To which I thought, "What is he talking about? We fixed that bug."

Then I realized that from his point of view, he was thinking, "It happened to us on my worldline, but not you. That proves this isnt a hoax."

As the rest of us were thinking, "That doesnt make any sense." Since to us, we still havent been shown proof of parallel universes or "worldlines".
But since he knows there is, and in his world it happened, it made sense to him. Thats my take on it.

Now at the same time, if you think about it, a national power failure would cause chaos on phenominal scales. However I dont understand why he said "People froze to death on the freeways" That doesnt make any sense at all. I can see if people froze to death in general because they did not know how to stay warm, but in thier cars on the freeways? There is heat in cars.

Anyways, Some of the things he said are a mystery to me, or at least a little confusing. Alot of it I believe has happened, and given that I am thinking that the rest of it has a high probability of happening. Once I see things really start heating up, I will stockpile what I need. However until then, I still plan to move to Florida to become an electrician. (this was the plan before I found out about John Titor, so Florida is purely coincindental.)

The more I pay attention to Politics and whats happening now, It never comes to mind that a civil war cannot happen, or will not happen. Long ago, I kinda figured that something like that would take place sooner or later, given how many people the Bush Administration manages to enrage on a daily basis.

I dont know how you guys and gals feel about bible code, but I found something last night saying that Bush would indeed be assassinated, along with Cheney. I dont really consider it a reliable source, but I plan to check into it further.

Actually, the only reference JT made to the Y2K was "can you think of something lately that should have happened but didnt?" and he said it close to that time period (right after)... and he mentioned it in reference to 'worldlines percentage of divergence'.... he never actually came out and mentioned it, he only referenced it as a way to get one thinking about how someone travelling in time might be able to change things.

Originally posted by Jay44
But since he knows there is, and in his world it happened, it made sense to him

From 'his' point of view, yes, the non-occurance of a y2k disaster would seem to support the idea that he is traveling to different 'time-lines', rathern than merely traveling into his own past. But, that still doesn't make sense in terms of why we'd not be surprised about it.

given how many people the Bush Administration manages to enrage on a daily basis.

In about 3 years there will be no more bush administration, because of term limits.

Originally posted by XPhiles
supposedly expired vehicle registration of Titor's?

There is no identifying information on that form. Infact its almost completely blank, its an incomplete form, I'd say its infact a fake form, someone took a blank, added the beggining of the car year model and the generalized portion of a vin (that all chevys would have in common), and thats it. More fraud.

How can someone with a BBC avatar not be spruiking blue police phone boxes that make strangely distorted siren-like sounds?

I haven't gotten my doctorate yet! WHO are you talking about!

Jay44
Now that was my point. According to some information I found, Creating a blackhole and containing a black hole as of now are considered "doable".

Creating? Probably. Sustaining? No.

IF you pump the black hole full of positively charged particles and enter an object with a negative charge, it will not succum to the gravitational strength of the black whole and stay intact.

No one has done anything like this. High Powered accelerators might be able to or might have produced micro-black holes that exist for an instant. Nothing like this tho.

ldragonfire
To this date John Titor has not been proven to be a fake,

The fraudulent laser photo establishes him as a fraud. The lifting of the story in its details from a fictional novel also establishes this.

find a group of friends you trust and stock-pile things you might need to survive when out society falls, like in the first civil war, katrina...ect...ect

Since even the most ardent titorites state that our world is different from titors, there's absolutely no reason to think that the scenario he talks about is going to happen. There was no y2k. There were no Waco events each month of 2004, and there is no progress torwards an american civil war between Repbulican militias and a Democrat city-based Federal Empire.

and then you can post here why his predictions are comming to light

His predictions have failed on nearly every single account.

[edit on 16-9-2005 by Nygdan]

The county voting map of the last election wasn't mentioned as pertaining to the civil war, it was mentioned in reference to what gets nuked. He never mentions democrats or republicans nor does he ever hint about them one way or the other. Basicly - blue locations get nuked.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Jay44
But since he knows there is, and in his world it happened, it made sense to him

From 'his' point of view, yes, the non-occurance of a y2k disaster would seem to support the idea that he is traveling to different 'time-lines', rathern than merely traveling into his own past. But, that still doesn't make sense in terms of why we'd not be surprised about it.

Mhmm. Thats exactly what I said.

given how many people the Bush Administration manages to enrage on a daily basis.

In about 3 years there will be no more bush administration, because of term limits.

I am aware of term limits. I am also aware that anything can happen within the next three years. Also, lets say that Jeb gets "elected" next time around. Then what?

Jay44
Now that was my point. According to some information I found, Creating a blackhole and containing a black hole as of now are considered "doable".

Creating? Probably. Sustaining? No.

You sure about that? I mean its all in theory based on physics, yes.
But we arent physicists, so how could we really know? That hole goes pretty deep.

IF you pump the black hole full of positively charged particles and enter an object with a negative charge, it will not succum to the gravitational strength of the black whole and stay intact.

No one has done anything like this. High Powered accelerators might be able to or might have produced micro-black holes that exist for an instant. Nothing like this tho.

Obviously. If it was already done, this would be old news. Its a theory based on the reaction of positive and negative particles when placed together. Just because no one has done it yet doesnt mean no one will. There is a first for everything.

His predictions have failed on nearly every single account.

Again, are we sure about that? I recall something about an earthquake in Peru...

Some stuff he said hit, some missed. Who knows. If we could just track him down this would all be over.


[edit on 17-9-2005 by Jay44]

Nygdan
The fraudulent laser photo establishes him as a fraud. The lifting of the story in its details from a fictional novel also establishes this.

It's funny how everyone says the laser photo is fake and proves him a fraud, but the accusers can not prove the photo is fake?
I think we need a time machine, to use for comparison of theorem. The gravity wave field theorem is just not good enough lol.

Tis also funny on how some people compare: TWO fictional books and that proves Titor to be a fraud as well?? that is like having a Stephen Hawking video with a Star Trek episode mixed together. Almost like the bible code thing? There is plenty of fictional books that relate to something or another. I bet I can mix TWO comic books together and they will have substance related to Titor.

Nygdan
]There was no y2k. There were no Waco events each month of 2004, and there is no progress torwards an american civil war between Repbulican militias and a Democrat city-based Federal Empire.

I really don't think you understand how other people view this..... Some people think the civil war has started but not yet officially called!!

I admire Roth Joint point of perspective in a thread called: The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor this person always leaves an conventional example of opinion. The thread is a amusing read.

I guarantee you... there are people out there who would disagree with everything you have mentioned above, and that is why it is still talked about too this day.

Originally posted by Master Wu
He never mentions democrats or republicans nor does he ever hint about them one way or the other.

He clearly does. The context of his story is that of the militia movement. Its not like titor is from the year 2525, he's alive today, in the story.

Basicly - blue locations get nuked.

He refers to the map to show the sides of the civil war, if I beleive, and the reason why it was so effective was because it showed that the American Federal Empire was made up of city living populations, who gave up their guns and their liberty in exchange for safety, and the country-folk, who retained their guns and independence and fought against the federal government. The blues get nuked because the AFE is in the cities.

jay44
I am also aware that anything can happen within the next three years. Also, lets say that Jeb gets "elected" next time around. Then what?

A better question is, what if he doesn't get elected, and thats the end of it? Was titor real, or no?

You sure about that? I mean its all in theory based on physics, yes.

I have no idea whether or not a black hole can be created, sustained, and made portable, but thats not what we're talking about. We're talking about whether or not its been done. Black holes may have recently been created in high energy particle accelerators. Thats the state of the science. Some phsyicists are pretty sure that black hole's've been made. Not sustained, not clearly made, or any of this other stuff. We simply can't say that you can make it stable by 'injecting' electrons into it.

I recall something about an earthquake in Peru

As I said, nearly every single count. Saying that there will be a big earthquake in peru isn't saying much.

Some stuff he said hit, some missed. Who knows. If we could just track him down this would all be over.

True enough, but if you think about it, the stuff that he got 'right' doesn't amount to very much, and the stuff that is important, the civil war, etc etc, hasn't happened, when its supposed to've.

XPhiles
It's funny how everyone says the laser photo is fake and proves him a fraud, but the accusers can not prove the photo is fake?

What part of the explanation do you not accept???

TWO fictional books and that proves Titor to be a fraud as well??

I don't know about two, the real issue is that there is one book, Alas Babylon, that is, apparently, not merely the story titor tells in general, but even his story down to the specifics of peoples and places (with perhaps some names changed around). It shows that the creator of the hoax used the book to make his backstory.

that is like having a Stephen Hawking video with a Star Trek episode mixed together

Since hawking's stuff is testable, this hardly makes sense.

I bet I can mix TWO comic books together and they will have substance related to Titor.

The 'other book' merely adds the idea of time travel, and I don't see why the creator(s) of the hoax would've necessarily read it. Alas Babylon, however, is the same story that john titor tells. Its not even necessary, the Titor story is clearly a militiaman's wet dream. THe bad guys are the american FEDERAL empire for chrissakes! Its serfs are people from the cities, the urbanites, the elite, who give up their 'freedoms' in exchange for safety, and all that. John Titor is a militiaman superhero. That alone should at least bring up great suspicsion.

Some people think the civil war has started but not yet officially called!!

Irrelevant. The fact is that you can not say 'well maybe in the future we do have a civil war', and cite that as support for titor or show it as his predictions coming true. The country is divided right now (over a war and a terror attack that titor doesn't even allude to), but the country was divided when clinton was president, especially for the radical right and the militias, to them the war had started with Waco. So you can't say that the country is on the definite path towards civil war, and that its just very early in the division. If it is, then you can't tell that it is, and therefore can't say that Titor is right. And more importantly Titor says that by now, the war will be starting because there will be Waco-like incidents each and every month. Of 2004! There wasn't a single one of them in all of 2004, and none this year.

there are people out there who would disagree with everything you have mentioned

Fools.

[edit on 19-9-2005 by Nygdan]

Nygdan
It shows that the creator of the hoax used the book to make his backstory

The only connection with Alas Babylon is the Soviet nuclear attack on America and the story is based around a small town in Florida. Typical Cold War story for its time.

Alas Babylon compares more to Hurricane Katrina than it would Titor, the story is more about survival and is ultimately a realistic scenario of what could happen in a small town after a major disaster.. Had Titor been from Texas, I'm sure there would be another book to compare Titor too.

It's becomes a connect the dots type of game, something like the bible code for the nay sayers. Throw in a time travel book Alas the connection...lol

Nygdan
Since hawking's stuff is testable, this hardly makes sense.

If Stephen Hawking stuff is testable it would fail. After 30 years of him saying black holes destroys everything that falls into it
Now Hawking says he was wrong! Here is a guy who finds that black holes can emit radiation but no information?............. oops! he was wrong about the information.

Nygdan
Titor story is clearly a militiaman's wet dream..

Sure it is, this is what happens when the civilized world falls apart, it creates militias... it just common sense.

Nygdan
Titor says that by now, the war will be starting because there will be Waco-like incidents each and every month. Of 2004! There wasn't a single one of them in all of 2004, and none this year.

....."Waco type events" is a figure of representation, just a symbol of something. Not exactly like Waco. It's not like civil war blooms over night... as Titor said, that steadily gets worse also Titor says By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone’s doorstep.

The communications industry and Big Brother has done there homework since Waco and Vietnam days on how to deal with civilian and domestic issues pertaining too Waco type event, it is more clandestinely handled and away from public eyes. There are thousands of ACLU court cases each year, some are very Waco like.

Nygdan
Fools

It would be foolish to not be prepared.

Originally posted by XPhiles
The only connection with Alas Babylon is the Soviet nuclear attack on America and the story is based around a small town in Florida. Typical Cold War story for its time.

Hmmm, most people seem to be saying that it compares even in the details, like the peoples and places.

oops! he was wrong about the information.

That really doesn't matter for this discussion tho.

....."Waco type events" is a figure of representation, just a symbol of something. Not exactly like Waco.

Fair enough, please list each event for each month of 2004 that can reasonably be said to be a Waco like event.

By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone’s doorstep.

If it isn't, what does that mean?

it is more clandestinely handled and away from public eyes.

The government and media couldn't cover up something like Waco or any waco like events.

There are thousands of ACLU court cases each year, some are very Waco like.

Absolutely none of them have been Waco-like. Its simply preposterous to say that common place events, thousands of which happen every year, are what he was warning about. Anyone reading titor at the time understood that he meant big groups of people holed up in their houses/compounds being attacked and destroyed by a merciless, rights-trambling federal government. Militias versus the feds, not individuals getting beaten up at traffic stops.

t would be foolish to not be prepared.

I was being somewhat sarcastic, and if there is a nuclear hit on american cities, knowing the titor story isn't going to make one iota of difference. Have you started riding your bike 10 miles a day? Do you have stockpiles of food and water set up around your state? Have you purchased hazmat suits? Are you proficcient in guerilla warefare? Can you survive in the woods for a month with no supplies? Then you haven't even started to prepare.