What If?????

I was just sitting around thinking about some religious,scripture study kind of stuff that I was reading a few days ago,mostly pertaining to the writings of the old testament .
There were some bizzarre points made about the ancient hebrew scriptures which made me think more deeply about it......
Here is what popped into my head..

Say ,God,the real one,was the creator of our souls,which he is.
Amazing thing to be able to create a soul,no-one can explain what exactly it is,but we all know that there is something there...

Say,The Deciever,satan,whatever name he is called... was the creator of the fleshy body our soul lives in.
Satan was powerful too,but being created by God,he could not approach the power of God,but he could manipulate material things,this body was the best he could do..compared to God's creation of a soul.

The Deciever,talked the happy free souls who were living in God's love,into trying out the corporeal body,maybe he played some kind of trick on us,hence his name.

What could be better for getting even with God than trapping God's creations in an aging,pain racked body which required physical maintenance,compared to being a soul just hanging out,being free.

-This would explain how death could be a reward.
-This would explain how in our imaginations and dreams we are able to fly.
-this would explain how we feel trapped in our bodies. ---This would explain why we are told that the material world is meaningless,and we should not get caught up in it.
- Maybe satan tricked adam and eve into thinking that eating from the tree of knowledge was forbidden,so he could keep them ignorant,may be he kicked them out of the garden of eden....
-The Deciever,living up to his name.
Just a string of rambling thoughts,I figured I had better write em down before they evaporated.
Aside from those of you who think that they are immortal,or somehow believe that you are so powerful that you don't thank anyone for your very existence,since you think it is all about you.
Any thoughts on this brainfart?.

Or maybe it make's no sense and explain's nothing. Just maybe it's another way to explain and justify religion ...

I was just passing along thoughts,religions do not explain truth,religions are simply for control of the masses.Too many of us just inherit our parents religions without really understanding or questioning just exactly what that inheritance may be...don't ask questions,you'll be considered a sinner by the rest of the sheep in the flock....
God did not make religion,man did.
God did not write the scriptures,Man did.
God did not write the Bible,man did.
So all of the religions and religious texts were written from a man's point of view,not God's.
Can You say Duality?.

And yet, without all these man made refrence's to god ... Would god even exist? Would we ever have learnt of his existance? Polytheism is much older than monotheism. Seeing as how *god* is somewhat new to the scene, does he somehow invalidate all the other man made religious text's of many god's?

Many cultures which explain him in many ways...

Each culture presenting a peice of the puzzle all in general saying the same thing.

I've come up with another scenario recently that is along the same lines...

God is supposed to be the originator of EVERYTHING in existence, which means He is also the originator of sin. Almost all sins have are rooted in pride or greed.
Of all of God's creations (before man), Lucifer was one of God's favorites. But he was filled with pride and tried to hijack God's throne. That pride has to have come from God when he created the angels, yet He is said to have been greatly saddened when Lucifer rebelled and had to be kicked out. This implies that He didn't expect it.
After Lucifer was banished from Heaven, Earth was created. Lucifer decided if he couldn't rule over Heaven, he'd take command over Earth.

What if creating life started off as trial and error?
What if, God didn't realize when he made the angels, that his own pride would become a part of their character?
God had to be proud in order to create innumerable angels for the sole purpose of worshiping him. This wasn't a weakness in Him, but in less powerful beings, it was overwhelming.
God, inadvertently, enabled the rebellion to occur, and was very disappointed in His lack of forethought about this potential risk. He, then, decided to try again by making man in his own image, only this time He knew what would happen if His pride infected a lesser being.
He couldn't create a living soul in his image without also transferring The Essence of Pride, but since He was creating an environment in which Adam could live, He had the option of diverting the potentially hazardous character trait into a substituted life-form within the Garden. "Pride" didn't have go into the soul He was making, as long as it was contained within the same physical environment, in which that soul resided. Hence, He created the Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil and infused it with the pride that would have infected Adam. Thus keeping Adam free from pride, provided he didn't ingest the "poisoned apple". He warned Adam if he ate anything off of the tree, that the pure, perfect friendship they shared would die and Adam would be separated from God indefinitely.
Unfortunately, since God was the One Who had to create the tree, it was perfect. Since it was the only tree infused with a part of His own Personal Essence, it surpassed all of the other trees in beauty. This only added to the temptation to sample the forbidden fruit.
God had told Adam about the dangers of the tree, and Adam was supposed to convey the seriousness of it to Eve. Neither of them had a concept of what sin or evil was, since they were still pure beings.
When Eve was confronted by the "Serpent", she couldn't have comprehended that he had evil intentions. She also wouldn't have been acting out of pride, but rather, curiosity when told that the Tree would show her the wisdom and knowledge that God possessed. While, granted, the correct thing to do would have been to consider how much she trusted God and how little she knew about the serpent (which would make choosing the serpent's story over God's irrational), she was thinking with the simple, impulsive mind of a Child. She wouldn't have known that there was a creature in God's Garden that was dishonest.
Adam should have been slightly more inclined to think about things first, but he was, nonetheless, naive and unfamiliar with deceit. How could Eve have portrayed the fruit as a risk or possible trick, when she didn't know what those concepts even were? Of course, after they had both succumbed to temptation, they were endowed with a sense of knowledge and confusion, right and wrong, morals and immorality. This is why they felt naked and ashamed.
Before the fruit, they would have been essentially the same as any other creature in the garden. Incapable of malice, greed, or pride for selfish purposes. They would have been able to make decisions regarding their immediate needs or desires, but would have had no reason to seek life's purpose, since God was always near-by if they were curious about something.
Anyways, we all know the story from here on out...

I came up with this one day when I was trying to understand why God would put that damned tree in the Garden, knowing full well we would be condemned to a life of misery and pain. It always seemed like a cruel joke to me. This is only an abstract theory. I haven't yet gone through it all, to see what contradictions may be present. Feel free to expand on my idea or question it, as you deem necessary. That's what ideas are for.

[Edited on 4-9-2003 by jezebel]

[Edited on 4-9-2003 by jezebel]

[Edited on 4-9-2003 by jezebel]

Lucifer wasn't a fallen angel, he was a Babylonian king.

So then ... how does the hundred's of *god's* that have been in existance thousand's of year's prior to god and the practice of monothiesm tie in together? A 4+ thousand year gap before a monothiestic god is ever mentioned could hardly be considered a cultural difference. Especially considering how the bible depict's god being there from the very begining ....

Dany,

What are you talking about? Please explain ...

Originally posted by e-nonymous

Dany,

What are you talking about? Please explain ...

Lucifer means morning star, it was translated from the Hebrew "heylel" which means shining one (and is also used sometimes and morning star), "heylel" was a reference to a Babylonian king.


This is just one website about it:
Clicky

Interesting ... Now I'm gonna have to research this "heylel" guy and see what he's all about.

[Edited on 9/9/2003 by SamaraMorgueAnn]

However, we are all the sons and daughters of God. WE are Godly. Each and every one of us has the Holy Spirit in us.

No one needs a certain "religion" to realize this. Look around the answers are everywhere.

I'll say it again like I have before. To deny the existence of God is to deny your own existence.

This is all an illusion created by God. We are in the kingdom of heaven now.

Is that piece of furniture your sitting own really solid? No, just a closely packed bunch of molecules and atoms. If they were actually to touch the piece of furniture would explode. What powers all this?

The father, the one and only God.

my thought about this is that the apple adam n eve ate is symbolic for the materialism, we were all happily spiriting it up and then satan tempted us into these crappy, cuz knowledge would not be forbidden, what sort of diety would do such a thing, if we had no knowledge we'd go about as animals do, tahts if this satan and god stuff exists
i realy think that god is something which was created so that leaders could justify the "need" for organized control of people

those are some really good interesting theories.
and i believe that we are coming into an age where the truth is becomeing more apparent to those who believe.

my theory...
knowledge is a tool of the "deciever" you mentioned...
the fact that it takes knowledge to know the truth is known in some organized circles as the lucefierian path...
for to know the truth you must know the know(ledge)...

Lemme see if reposting this will get an answer yet

So then ... how does the hundred's of *god's* that have been in existance thousand's of year's prior to god and the practice of monothiesm tie in together? A 4+ thousand year gap before a monothiestic god is ever mentioned could hardly be considered a cultural difference. Especially considering how the bible depict's god being there from the very begining ....

i do not understand your question,what scriptures are you referring to?,be more specific,what "hundreds" of gods?,or is it that those "hundreds of gods"are referring to the same god as refferred to by different cultures over the centuries.
I do know that religion was once more like astronomy,and the gods were heavenly bodies and planets in many religions.
What are you referring to?.
Do you claim loyalty to a specific religion??,if so ,why?,how were you first exposed to it?,if it is your parents religion you inherited it,religions have nothing to do with god,religions were created and used by men to control other men.I just thought that i would add that to clarify where my theories/thought are coming from.
We all must find out if what we think is the truth is actually our truth,or is it someone elses version of truth which we have been conditioned to accept?
God is God,an entity powerful enough to create the universe created any other things in it,there may be things out there that looked like Gods before people understood what it was they were looking at...
What are these hundreds of gods to which you refer?.

so there may have well been people before our frame of time that did not fully grasp the idea of a great creator. i.e. multipe gods. that represented what most, to them, allowed their existence. yet there is a creator id like to believe and there also is the all that is.

SamaraMorgueAnn: Thanx for the compliment...I sometimes think that my post are somewhat of an "Emperor's New Clothes" phenomena (in that, only I can see them). That was quite a story of yours as well. Was it one of your personal musings or did you learn it from someone else?

Originally posted by e-nonymous
Lemme see if reposting this will get an answer yet

So then ... how does the hundred's of *god's* that have been in existence thousand's of year's prior to god and the practice of monotheism tie in together? A 4+ thousand year gap before a monotheistic god is ever mentioned could hardly be considered a cultural difference. Especially considering how the bible depict's god being there from the very beginning ....

I've heard different theories on this question, but the one I've found most interesting lately is at the following page:
www.v-a.com...
The site belongs to a man who is trying to translate the original ancient Aramaic text from the Ancient Church of the East into modern English. While I don't agree with most of his political views, his translation does clarify a lot of the questions I've had regarding various contradictions or paradox's. For example, creation of "all living creatures" is translated as "all living souls", which clarifies the debate over whether animals have souls. As with everything, it's all subject to one's own perspective. It's a fresh take on things, nonetheless.

Originally posted by banjoechef
my thought about this is that the apple adam n eve ate is symbolic for the materialism, we were all happily spiriting it up and then satan tempted us into these crappy, cuz knowledge would not be forbidden, what sort of diety would do such a thing, if we had no knowledge we'd go about as animals do, tahts if this satan and god stuff exists
i realy think that god is something which was created so that leaders could justify the "need" for organized control of people

I disagree, the apple they ate was the fruit of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, what we do with that knowledge is our own business.
Plus the serpent wasn't Satan.