Federal government motive?

I'm sure everyone here has seen and heard a lot of reports about the relief sent, or lack thereof, by FEMA and the Federal government. I've hearrd it said that Homeland Security has effectively shackled FEMA from doing an effective job.

We were talking at home about how the relief call went out. There seems to be some debate about whether NOLA requested aid. I know the Mayor said aid was requested.
And, it seems like it took FEMA longer than usual to respond.

So, my questions here are:
Do you think the waters prevented aid from being sent quicker?
Do you think Homeland Security bureaucracy slowed aid?
Or, do you think the federal government will use this as a precedent to take over an "emergency" situation before state and local governments request assistance, ala 9/11 and the Patriot Act. In other words, has the fed taken liberties with state and local governments' rights?

It was a magnitude of the situation that slowed down help. Yes water and washed out roads and hi-ways, some under water, etc.

What is the gross weight of a tractor-trailer rig? 80,000 lbs? Wouldn't the Bush bashers have fun it one of these rigs fell through a bridge or fell in a washout.

90,000 sq miles of destruction where do you start? someone will say"where the people are". They are everywhere and all hurting.

Roper

yup, the victims are going to have to show some intiative if they are going to survive.

Originally posted by Rikimaru
yup, the victims are going to have to show some intiative if they are going to survive.

Now thats an interesting statmeent if I ever heard one.

There where 1000 911 calls yesterday from people still in attics of thier houses. I guess showing inititive is something we can say since we are sitting at our PCs, eating dinner all the time and other stupid things people do..

Lets walk in thier shoes for a minute. 7 days no food, water, or whatever. I dont think inititive is going to be a big part of them being saved. those 1000 people who called 911 yesterday will probably be dead in a few days.

Interesting how somethings seem so small when one day you will be stuck in this same situation.. we will say this about you.. when you come read this crap we have typed saying you should have this or that. you will only sit there and laugh and say... "wtf do these people know, they werent there."

Bush Bashers


Poor Bush followers.

Bet its classified as a mental disorder in the DSM4 by the year 2009

I am sure magnito student your disorder already has a name.

I would like to point out that the Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans are both Democrat.

Why didn't they deploy the government own transportation?

Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

Roper

Roper, that is an interesting quote, thanks.

But, my question is:
Now that the hurrican has just about completely devastation NOLA, can we expect the federal government to use this botched evacuation and relief to change policy, i.e. any further emergency will immedialtely be put under federal control and jurisiction. All civil rights temporarily terminated. etc. etc.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Roper, that is an interesting quote, thanks.

But, my question is:
Now that the hurrican has just about completely devastation NOLA, can we expect the federal government to use this botched evacuation and relief to change policy, i.e. any further emergency will immedialtely be put under federal control and jurisiction. All civil rights temporarily terminated. etc. etc.

Not to look psychotic - because I'm over on another thread bellowing against people twisting the army presence in Nola right now, but I'm seriously concerned about the possibility of legislation that would allow what your proposing. That's been on my mind for several days now that some freak in Congress will be bringing a Bill to the floor that would allow the clowns of FEMA to deploy regular army IMMEDIATELY.

Not good.

The governors of each state may call out the National Guard with a phone call. Did the governors do that before Katrina hit? Did the Mayor of New Orleans request help before Katrina hit?

Doesn't each state have a civil defense manager? What did they do before Katrina hit.

Does anyone know how many people lived in that 90,000 sq miles of destruction? Well find out and calculate the need for survival.

Point is this is not President Bush's fault.

I hope FEMA learns from this storm.

Roper

If your poor and your governement does not either implement or have a plan for evacuation you had better be prepared...
Then also look at the Magnomometer at Haarp on Aug24 hmmmm.

AOD33

Does anyone know if the laws of NOrLEANS would allow a federalized presence?
I heard about this on MSNBC and then on FoX?

AOD33

Originally posted by Roper
Point is this is not President Bush's fault.

The Stafford Act specifically states:

§ 5192. Federal emergency assistance [Sec. 502]

a. Specified

In any emergency, the President may--

1. direct any Federal agency, with or without reimbursement, to utilize its authorities and the resources granted to it under Federal law (including personnel, equipment, supplies, facilities, and managerial, technical and advisory services) in support of State and local emergency assistance efforts to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, and lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe;

2. coordinate all disaster relief assistance (including voluntary assistance) provided by Federal agencies, private organizations, and State and local governments;

3. provide technical and advisory assistance to affected State and local governments for--
A. the performance of essential community services;
B. issuance of warnings of risks or hazards;
C. public health and safety information, including dissemination of such information;
D. provision of health and safety measures; and
E. management, control, and reduction of immediate threats to public health and safety;

4. provide emergency assistance through Federal agencies;

5. remove debris in accordance with the terms and conditions of section 407 [42 U.S.C. § 5173];

6. provide assistance in accordance with section 408 [42 U.S.C. § 5174]; and [(Pub.L. 106-390, § 206(b), October 30, 2000)]

7. assist State and local governments in the distribution of medicine, food, and other consumable supplies, and emergency assistance.


b. General

Whenever the Federal assistance provided under subsection (a) with respect to an emergency is inadequate, the President may also provide assistance with respect to efforts to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, and lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe.

Additionally, the President of the United States has the constitutional power and inherent right and duty to use military forces in the context of homeland defense and in the preservation of federal functions (transportation, commerce, education, civil rights).

Federal troops were used in the South during the 1960s to preserve access to educational institutions for blacks under this constitutional presidential authority. As another example, over ten thousand U.S. troops were deployed during the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta under this “inherent presidential authority rationale” because of the potential for terrorist activity.

You were saying???

Loam, didn't he do that? I read where the President was sending in the Marines. There is one NG unit that I know of here in Okla. that is being activated and heading down there.

You were saying??????????

Originally posted by Roper
Loam, didn't he do that? I read where the President was sending in the Marines. There is one NG unit that I know of here in Okla. that is being activated and heading down there.

You were saying??????????

Exactly WHEN did he do that???? I'm shocked you would find that acceptable.

Start with this.

www.armytimes.com...

www.breitbart.com...

Again, doesn't the Governor, state agencies and Mayor bear any responsibly? They are not the first line of defense?

Roper

[edit on 4-9-2005 by Roper]

Originally posted by Roper
Start with this.

www.armytimes.com...

www.breitbart.com...

You missed my point....While the world watched for days....there were no feds!

Again, doesn't the Governor, state agencies and Mayor bear any responsibly? They are not the first line of defense?

Perhaps. But after the first 24 hours, it was clear that no state government alone could address the scale of the event. That was obvious to everyone, but the President and FEMA.

I think that patriot acts definately hidered response attempts

Maybe this will help you understand.

www.cbsnews.com...

You loam may need to reread my first and second response to this thread.

Loam are you a disaster specialist? Logistics specialist?

Roper

Originally posted by Roper
Maybe this will help you understand.

www.cbsnews.com...

You loam may need to reread my first and second response to this thread.

Loam are you a disaster specialist? Logistics specialist?

Roper

No. Are you?

Keep your blinders on, if you prefer....

How is it that when the feds finally said go, they were deployed within 12 hours.....

Feast upon the LIES that BUSH, BROWN and CHERTOFF feed you....

Would it be in their interest to admit their incompetency? I think not.

The media, private volunteers, and even the Hollywood famous were able to crawl all over the city.

I am at no point dismissing the culpability of state officials, they could have done MUCH better. But to see that incompetency duplicated at the federal level- and in spades- is simply outrageous!

In this case I feel the water level had everything to do with what seem was a slow response time. I also feel the poor, sick and the elder people alone may not have been offered a way out of New Orleans as far a transportation prior to the flood.

Dallas