Do You Know Who the Nephilim Really Were?

The most common responses that I come across when one asks a question about who the Nephilim were are as follows:

1. They were the sons of God who took human wives and conceived children with them.

2. They were the result of the sons of God taking human wives and conceiving children with them creating a "half-breed" child.

After carefully reading Genesis 6:4 I am not sure if I can sign on to either viewpoint. The standard biblical references, and I believe the only biblical references, when dealing with the Nephilim exclusively are Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33; Genesis being the most relevant source when investigating their origins.

Genesis 6:4 (New Revised Standard Version)
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went in to the daughters of humans, who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.

After carefully reading this passage several times I do not get the sense that the Nephilim are involved with the whole sons of God knocking up the hot earthly women scenario.

I read it as saying that the Nephilim were on the earth during and after the era of the sons of God knocking up the hot earthly women; thus giving the reader a temporal reference for the epoch in which the Nephilim existed. The knocking up of the hot earthly women era was probably a well known era; known well enough that the orator/writer assumed the reader would grasp an understanding of the point in time he was referring to.

I believe that the last part of the passage is referring back to the Nephilim stating that [They] were the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown.

Essentially I believe that the passage is presenting the historical information in the following format:

1. The Nephilim existed on earth
2. They existed during the point in time when the sons of God were taking human wives and conceiving children with them - a temporal reference point
3. The Nephilim were the heroes of old and renown warriors

I do not believe that there is substantial evidence within the Bible, or at least I have not encountered any, to lead me to believe that the Nephilim were the sons of God referred to in the passage who were taking earthly wives with whom they conceived children.

note: The New Revised Standard Version Bible was used because of its means of translation. It is translated word for word opposed to sentence by sentence or phrase by phrase; thus providing a more scholarly medium of reference.

I always thought they were a race of giants, possibly alien. I remember reading that when Moses and the Jews were wandering the desert, they came across a camp of giants and had to go around. Also in an older version of the bible it says,

"There were Giants on the Earth in those days, the were the Nephilim, when the sons of God..."

But the thing about the Nephilim is its not just from the bible. There were a lot of Jewish scrolls that report on giants, and they also called them Nephilim. Some scrolls said they would seduce man kind, they controled the building of villages, and the main idea I got from it was they were in control and watching man kinds progress.

Numbers 13:30-33 (NRSV):
30 But Caleb quieted the people before Moses, and said, ‘Let us go up at once and occupy it, for we are well able to overcome it.’ 31 Then the men who had gone up with him said, ‘We are not able to go up against this people, for they are stronger than we are.’ 32 So they brought to the Israelites an unfavourable report of the land that they had spied out, saying, ‘The land that we have gone through as spies is a land that devours its inhabitants; and all the people that we saw in it are of great size. 33 There we saw the Nephilim (the Anakites come from the Nephilim); and to ourselves we seemed like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them.’

This is the account of a scouting mission of the promised land of Moses. The scouts came back and reported brutish giants in the land. This report scared Moses' people out of entering the promise land and consequently led to the Hebrew god banishing them for 40 years in the desert.

This is the passage in the Bible that speaks of them as giants.

The passage from the older version begins with an inference of what they believed the Nephilim to be; that isn't a literal, word by word translation.

The Nephilim are also known as the Watchers...the origin of this title has escaped me thus far.

Now that a little more light has been shed on the subject - what are some views after you (ATS participants) have carefully read Genesis 6:4?? Does anyone disagree with my interpretation of the format of the passage and the implications the format of the passage has on the perceived origins of the Nephilim?

I am not sure but I think originally the "watchers" comes from an aramaic text found at Qumran, I think the Greek texts also refer to them as watchers as well.

1It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

2And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.

(3) An Aramaic text reads "Watchers" here (J.T. Milik, Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4 [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1976], p. 167).

www.johnpratt.com...

Genesis being the most relevant source when investigating their origins.

Considering the fact that there are only a few phrases on the nephilim in Genesis I would hardly state that to be the case. As a matter of fact the sentence from Genesis is a cut and paste from enoch.

If you want to know about the nephilim read the book of enoch, you'll prob want to start at chap 7.
www.johnpratt.com...



[edit on 3-9-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Originally posted by SpilledBeans
I always thought they were a race of giants, possibly alien. I remember reading that when Moses and the Jews were wandering the desert, they came across a camp of giants and had to go around. Also in an older version of the bible it says,

"There were Giants on the Earth in those days, the were the Nephilim, when the sons of God..."

But the thing about the Nephilim is its not just from the bible. There were a lot of Jewish scrolls that report on giants, and they also called them Nephilim. Some scrolls said they would seduce man kind, they controled the building of villages, and the main idea I got from it was they were in control and watching man kinds progress.

Giants can refer to other than physical stature (Height, Weight) etc. Giant could also mean "more advanced than" "greater than"

phoenixhasrisin - I do believe that the title Watchers is used/given to them in a text found in Qumram; however, I have no knowledge of a Greek text.

My reference to Genesis being the relevant source on the origins of the Nephilim was in the biblical context. Another look at my original quote will help clear this up:

After carefully reading Genesis 6:4 I am not sure if I can sign on to either viewpoint. The standard biblical references, and I believe the only biblical references, when dealing with the Nephilim exclusively are Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33; Genesis being the most relevant source when investigating their origins.

I was simply stating that out of the biblical references, few that there are, the Genesis passage is a better reference of the two. You have quoted me out of context.

Magnito_student - If you read Numbers 13:33 you will see that even though the term giant may refer to more advanced than or greater than, that is not what is depicted in this passage.

The reading of my previous post regarding Numbers 13:33 will give you the context in which this passage lies. I believe they are referring to sheer size. It says: we seemed like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them in reference to the people that [they] saw in it are of great size.

I was simply stating that out of the biblical references, few that there are, the Genesis passage is a better reference of the two. You have quoted me out of context.

Since I do not want to turn this into a discussion as to what constitutes "biblical" -let me just offer my apologies for quoting you out of context..My bad

Thank you for not changing the subject...when I use the term biblical I am usually referring to the Protestant canonized scripture (what most Americans would consider the standard Bible of 66 books).

Glad we cleared that up without charging off track.

I would the nephilim were the offspring of fallen angels and human women. I would also add that the bloodline off humanity had been so corrupted that only Noah's family was left with 100% human DNA. From Genesis it appears ALL other human women were taken by fallen angels as wives. satan and the angels that followed him attempted this to stop the coming of Jesus. I also believe there were no children on earth at the time of the flood because this corruption had grown so great.

Howard the Dolphin,

I am confused, help me to understand please. If you are seriously trying to investigate the origins of the nephilim then why are you choosing to deal only with the passage in Genesis? Especially when everyone knows where the passage in genesis comes from..

Usually when people investigate something they try to gather all evidence possible, no? Well then, since you know the passage in genesis to be a fragment from another source, would it not make sense to go back to the original source? Especially considering the fact that the original source, in this case enoch, gives a full description of who they were and where they came from.

You cite a passage whos source is known yet, choose to not go to the source for further information...Why is that?

``

i recall something like the idea of a anthrophormic Nephilim
is a much later development from the era of of primal religious
mystical tradition when ancient shamanism was the rule of tribes...

it seems the Nephilim was a spirit or force which could inhabit men,
the different Nephilim (spirits) dwelled in plants, roots, vines even
mushrooms....which the meme that they were 'fallen to earth' and the
idea that demons (a much lower in the heirarchy) hell and all other
evil or bad things are below us in the bowels of the earth.
~~~~~~~~~~


ponder further, that the flood did not eradicate the Nephilim,
(as they were before and after the flood)
there are also the class known as the Ralphaim who are confined
to dwell below the earth, both in scripture & Hebrew mysticism
(troglodytes? subterrainian creatures of caves & caverns?)

the issue is really twisty & turney, here's a few to peruse

www.ryanmcginty.com/fallen.html
www.artapprentice.net/sumer/
www.thewatcherfiles.com/dulce_book.htm
www.thewatcherfiles.com
[http:] //mt.net/~watcher/
www.mt.net/~watcher/hate.html

also go to university libraries, Hebrew/Jewish Mysticism,
i recall there are 200,002 fallen angels, that fathered the Nephilim,
who caused demons and other darkness dwellers to appear on earth,
possessions and stuff like deliriums, alternate realities, ?hallucinagenic?
episodes via plants & botany is the starting point of the angels/nephilim
imho

~~~~
phoenixhasrisen, perhaps Enoch was considered a flake &
mystical maverick, and the words he wrote were not considered
inspired cannon from the god the church founders desired to create
for the masses to worship...

[edit on 3-9-2005 by St Udio]

Here is some information I picked up over the years:

Nephil (or Nefl) was written originally: "To be like GOD", present tense.

and ....

Heim (or Hime) was written originally: "To have fallen", or past tense for fall.

phonetics are more important than spelling. Remember the fact that many illiterate immigrants to America couldn't even spell their own names correctly for the ships manifests that crossed the Atlantic. Imagine what the literacy rate would have been like 5,000 years earlier, with a craving to record such things driving these people.

So in the original text the meaning of the words meant: Those who are like GOD who have fallen."

www.khouse.org... Return of the Aliens? As The Days of Noah Were by Chuck Missler www.khouse.org... UFOs and the 'Mighty Men of Old'
Return of the Nephilim
66/40 Radio Broadcast
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What is behind the UFOs?
Are they real?
What does the Bible say about them?
What is their agenda for Planet Earth?

www.injesus.com...&UCD=s0z

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Who Were the Legendary Giants? (Part 2) - by Gary Stearman

The Giants of the Ancient World

And here, the story begins to get interesting, because some of those sinning angels mentioned by Peter and Jude are also implicated in the horrific perversions that led to the destruction of the world in the great Flood of Noah's day. Their story is told in Genesis 6:4-5:

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

"And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

Here, the "sons of God" are the b'nai elohim. Over the years, it has been greatly debated whether or not these are human beings. Many have said they are the sons of Seth. But in the final analysis, we find that the term b'nai elohim is used elsewhere in the Old Testament. In virtually all of its usages, the obvious reference is to God's angelic creation. (See Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7; Dan. 3:25; Psalms 29:1 and 89:6.) Most expositors conclude that these are fallen angels, the same as those whom Jude mentions as having left their first estate.

More importantly, when we look at the result of their infraction, it becomes more than obvious that they were those corrupted angels. They literally took human women as mates, resulting in a monstrous progeny that was totally committed to wicked behavior. Their offspring are called "giants." But this word is translated from the Hebrew nephilim, meaning "the fallen ones."

Why then, are they called "giants"? Most likely, it is because the ancient Greek translations of the Hebrew Torah translated this and other references to these monstrous perversions of humanity as "giants," from the Greek gigantes (giganteV).

In fact, the evidence is strong that they really were giants. More than that, they seem to have displayed the superhuman powers that gave rise to the ancient legends of demigods. In the first century, Josephus wrote (Antiquities I, III, 1) that "… many angels of God accompanied with women, and begat sons that proved unjust, and despisers of all that was good, on account of the confidence they had in their own strength, for the tradition is that these men did what resembled the acts of those whom the Grecians call giants."

Those even slightly familiar with ancient Greek mythology will shudder at the implications of this statement. Those ancient tales are fraught with perverse combinations of men and beasts. They tell of demigods whose powers were used capriciously to torture and enslave humanity. They reek of incestuous, occultic and twisted stories of power gone awry — of "gods" who took lives at a whim. They were characterized by evil thoughts acted out in an orgiastic nightmare of abused power. Greek mythology is one continuous horror story, peopled with beasts and monsters of every description.

But Genesis refers to them simply as "giants." A giant then, is some kind of perversion of that which is natural, originally designed by God to live in peace upon the earth. In fact, the ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament — called the Septuagint — refers not only to the nephilim, but also to the Rephaim, as "giants." But in English translations, this connection is, for the most part, lost. Instead, we find the use of the proper name, Rephaim.

The Rephaim Were Giants

It is remarkable that the Rephaim are also mentioned in the Bible as real, living, historical beings. In fact, they were residents in the territory of modern Jordan and Syria, in the land that lies generally east of the Sea of Galilee. They lived in proximity with two other groups of giants, called "Emim" and "Zamzummim," or "Zuzim." In the ancient world, all of them were referred to generically as "giants." Genesis 14:5 mentions them in conjunction with Abraham's move to the Promise Land:

"And in the fourteenth year came Chedorlaomer, and the kings that were with him, and smote the Rephaims in Ashteroth Karnaim, and the Zuzims in Ham, and the Emims in Shaveh Kiriathaim" (Gen. 14:5).

To this day, ruins may be found in this region that are of gigantic proportion. Here, and northward into Syria and Lebanon, there are the remains of ancient buildings and temples that stagger the imagination. For example, the ruins of Baalbek, in Lebanon's Beqa'a Valley are so massive that some have suggested they could not be duplicated, even using modern building techniques. On the Acropolis of Baalbek, stood a temple dedicated to the storm god Hadad. It was 60 feet wide and 290 feet long, surrounded by 19 columns, each 62 feet high and over seven feet in diameter. But its flooring stones — still intact — are each larger than a modern railroad boxcar! No one can imagine how they were moved into place.

And there are many other ancient examples of outsized ancient structures in the Middle East. We should not be surprised by their existence. Many times the early Israelites encountered people that they called "giants." Even later, when Moses brought the children of Israel out of Egypt into the Promise Land, giants were seen. Perhaps the most famous incident is in Numbers 13, in which a twelve-man reconnaissance party is sent to spy out the land. Ten of the twelve men were so frightened by the presence of giants that they declined to enter the land again:

"And they brought an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.

"And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" (Num. 13:32-33).

In early Hebrew manuscripts, these giants are called the Nephilim, and were apparently thought by the spies to be descendants of a long line of these creatures, whom we first read about in the days before the Flood. But if the pre-Flood world, with the exception of Noah's family, was entirely destroyed, how did the evil giants survive? Here, we can only speculate. But it seems likely that the lineage of the Nephilim, Emim, Zamzummim, and Rephaim were somehow restarted even in the days after the Flood. One thing we know: after the Flood their behavior was continually evil, just like that of the pre-Flood Nephilim. The strong suggestion is that humanity's interaction with the evil spirits of ancient paganism is capable of disrupting man's genetic heritage. The result seems to be a monstrous offspring.

Still another branch of the Rephaim went by the name of "Anakim." We see them in Deuteronomy 2:10-11, where Moab is described as their area of habitation:

"The Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims;

"Which also were accounted giants as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims."

Here, the word "giants" is once again the Hebrew word Rephaim. They were an abnormal race. All of them seem to have been hated and feared by normal men. God sanctioned their destruction and eventually their lineage entirely disappeared. Even the Zamzummims were a subclass of the Rephaim. Deuteronomy 2:20-21 mentions their destruction from the land of Ammon, while at the same time, designating their origins:

"(That also was accounted a land of giants: [Rephaim] giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zam-zummims;

"A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead" (Deut 2:20,21).

As can be seen from the various Scriptures we have quoted, the Rephaim existed in Moses' day. The Lord even commissioned him to wipe out the last of their race.

To this day, ruins may be found in this region that are of gigantic proportion. Here, and northward into Syria and Lebanon, there are the remains of ancient buildings and temples that stagger the imagination. For example, the ruins of Baalbek, in Lebanon's Beqa'a Valley are so massive that some have suggested they could not be duplicated, even using modern building techniques. On the Acropolis of Baalbek, stood a temple dedicated to the storm god Hadad. It was 60 feet wide and 290 feet long, surrounded by 19 columns, each 62 feet high and over seven feet in diameter. But its flooring stones — still intact — are each larger than a modern railroad boxcar! No one can imagine how they were moved into place.

I am interested in learning more about this. Do you have any links?
thanx

Picture of a large quarried stone near Baalbek.

You got your answer from God himself.

Its clear in the text that the giants were here before .
The only thing that sons-daughters event produced were tyrants.

Anything else is imagination and is not in the text.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; ....

When? In those days.

...and also after that, ...

When? After that.
After what? After those days when there were giants. The giants are here already

when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Question: Its clear that the bible says angels (not fallen angels for there is a disctinction made) are sons of God.
Does the bible ever say that christians are sons of God? Yes
Does the bible ever say in the OT that followers of God are sons of God ? Yes.
Does it use the same word for "sons" that is used for angels? Yes.

Deu 14:1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

The word used for children is the same exact word translated as sons in Genesis 6:4

So that route of reasoning is not valid to say that only angels are considered sons of God.

Also in the NT we have the definition of 'Sons of God'

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Phi 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

It is very clear that the sons of God cannot be fornicating demons. Never once is a fallen creature referred to as sons of god.

Humans cannot reproduce with other creatures. Gods creation only reproduces after its own kind according to Genesis.

So where does this idea originate?
Babylon.
The woman queen carrys the child of the sungod. ie..the gods came down and mated with human women.
Its not in the bible.

There are no instances in the Old Testament where "the sons of God" refer to men. Let's see what E.W. Bullinger has to say about these "sons of God" in Appendix 23 of The Companion Bible:
"The Sons of God" in Gen. 6.2, 4.
It is only by the Divine specific act of creation that any created being can be called "a son of God." For that which is "born of the flesh is flesh." God is spirit and that which is "born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3.6). Hence Adam is called a "son of God" in Luke 3.38. Those "in Christ" having the "new nature" which is by the direct creation of God (2 Cor. 5.17; Eph. 2.l0) can be, and are called "sons of God" (John 1.13; Rom. 8.14, 15; 1 John 3.1).

This is why angels are called "sons of God" in every other place where the expression is used in the Old Testament. Job 1.6; 2.1; 38.7; Ps. 29.1; 89.6; Dan. 3.25 (no art.). We have no authority or right to take the expression in Gen. 6.4 in any other sense. Moreover in Gen. 6.2 the Sept. renders it angels."

Nephilim?

Hybrid Human/Aliens serving as messengers from future?

1) assuming time travel is possible
2) assuming humanity survives/endures long enough to achieve time travel

If 1 and 2 are true, then we are currently enduring the reprocussions. But in order to prove this then at least one person would have to have related/presented future events in a past tense context.

5,200 B.C. mankind is utilizing beasts of burden to get from point A to point B.

7,200+ years later .. .. ..

1901 A.D. mankind is still utilizing beasts of burden to get from point A to point B.

1902 A.D. mankind starts mass production of the Ford Model-T.

67 years later . .. . . .

1969 A.D. mankind is walking on the moon.

Makes perfect sense to me, too.

www.delusionresistance.org... ARE UFO'S AND ALIENS REALLY TIME TRAVELERS?