Nazis had no "advanced" technology

I've seen so many programs about all this "advanced" technology that the nazis had but people seem to forget that the allies had the most advanced technology of all - radar, computers and the atom bomb!

Sure, the nazis weren't helped by Hitler going mad and ruining everything for them but the fact is they lost the war when the RAF owned them in the battle of britain (using "inferior" technology like the spitfire, hurricane and radar) they then decided the invade Russia instead of Britain. Once they decided to fight on two fronts it was all over bar the shouting and no amount of technology was going to save them.

Most of the "advanced" technology the nazis had was developed out of desperation because their regular weapons weren't up to scratch. The nazis had to develope the V1, V2 because their regular bombers/fighters couldn't get through the "inferior" allied defences; neither the V1 or V2 where that effective and where counter-measured out of the war after a few months. As for the rocket fighter, that was developed becasue of a lack of oil and the VTOL craft were developed becasue of a lack of runways - again "inferior" allied planes had bombed the nazis oil fields and runways out of existance.

The point I'm making is this: the nazis came up with a lot of innovative ideas but none of them helped them win the war and many were never even deployed.

The allies on the other hand developed the spitfire, hurricane and radar which held off the nazis despite being heavily out numbered during the battle of britain.

The allies invented the computer which broke the nazis enigma code and most importantly the allies developed the atom bomb which ended the war.

I'd say that radar, computers and atom bombs where truely "advanced" technology that actually worked and helped us win the war. What did the nazis have to compare with them? Nothing.

Um, the Nazis built themselves a radar network.

And they had no need for computers since they didnt crack allied codes to the point where they would be needed, necessity is the mother of invention.

As for much of their technology being 'tools of desperation' many of the projects were started in 1940-41 when the Whermacht had crushed Europe nicely, the application of these weapons only failed because the Allies had overwhelming strength, many of these weapons were being designed to beat those odds. The Nazi's were working on SAM and air to air missiles the Allies hadnt dreamed of, they developed and used torpedoes that homed in on enemy engine sounds (once they learnt to turn their own engines off before firing!). While these devices didnt help win the war they would have made a big difference had they been completed, their lack of use was a consequence of too little time.

As for the Aom bomb recent research has suggested that germany had set off a few small test nukes. However thats probably not ture, the German nuclear programme was for the most part sabotaged by the UK.

Also the Spitfire, Radar and Hurricane were British developments, not Allied.

Also the Spitfire, Radar and Hurricane were British developments, not Allied.

The British were among the allied forces!

The tired point about the nazis "running out of time" is one of the most bizarre I've come across. People constantly state that if the war had gone on for six more months or a year than things could have turned out differently becasuse the nazis would have deployed all these amazing weapons. In reality if the nazis had held out for six months than Berlin would have been destroyed by the atom bomb.

I stick by the point I made in my original post. We can all look in wonder at the innovation of nazi weapons but the fact of the matter is that allied weapons won the war.

It was the nazis who had strength in numbers at the being of the war before the russians and americans got involved but British technology prevented them from invading our island.

It was the nazis who virtually owned the Atlantic with there U-boats but again is was allied code breaking, radar and sonar technology that eventually defeated the U-boats (despite their guided torpedoes!).

The nazis initial strength was curtailed by allied technology and once the allies outnumberd the nazis they were finished. Only the atom bomb would have saved the nazis and if they had been as technologically advanced as they are claimed to have been they would have made it, instead they spent their money on rockets that couldn't even hit a target as big as London towards the end of the war!

First you would need a bomber to fly over Berlin and drop the bomb. If the Nazis had the time to put the ME-262 and other jet aircraft in full production, the B-29 would not have bee able to penetrate their air space.
Also in 6 more moths Germany might have produced their own nuclear bomb and their own long rage bombers to drop it on London or possibly New York.

Were just lucky the war ended when it did, Nazi Germany had an amazing weapons program well ahead of its time.

Dont worry, if worst came to worse we could always send in Ian Flemming

I take it someone else knows about Flemming (James Bond author) being a former spy himself, hehe....

Anyhoo,

I'm not sure why the effort to belittle the German tech advances... They made tremendous strides in rocketry, jet propulsion, yes they had radar too, and of course submarine warfare. The Allies had advances too, as mentioned, but on sheer tech development, the award would have to go to the Nazis imho....

However I'll agree that time wouldn't have helped it. More time without two fronts....THAT would have helped the Nazis, and then we'd all be speaking German right now, but if the war lasted even 6 months longer, Germany still wouldn't have been able to deploy such tech to defeat the Allies. I had heard that many German scientists (who later worked on the A-Bomb) actually sabotaged Hitler's efforts by lying to him about when it could be ready, as they didn't want to see such a weapon in his hands. But, I've never really researched that angle much....

First you would need a bomber to fly over Berlin and drop the bomb.

Not a problem as the nazis had no air defence towards the end of the war.

If the Nazis had the time to put the ME-262 and other jet aircraft in full production, the B-29 would not have bee able to penetrate their air space.

They didn't have the experience pilots left to fly them anyway, also, they didn't have the materials to build these aircraft - mainly alumimium and the special glue they had developed to save on weight - and had to resort to wood instead!

And remember, only one bomber would have had to get through, towards the end of the war Britain was flying bombing raids over Dresden and Berlin win hundreds of bombers at a time with impunity. How would the nazis have known which bomber to shot down and how would the pilots have been able to identify it amongst the hundreds of other bombers?

Also in 6 more moths Germany might have produced their own nuclear bomb and their own long rage bombers to drop it on London or possibly New York.

This would have been very difficult seeing as their top nuclear scientists had all been captured by Britian long before the end of the war and they hadn't made hardly any progress on building an atom bomb. Oh, and I think you'll find the Russia was in the war as well so they would have had to have dropped three bombs on London, New York and Moscow. Not that this would have done them any good because the allies would have just concentrated on finishes off the last of the nazis airfields. Atom bomb attacks on the allied major cities would have killed thousands of civilians and damaged moral but it wouldn't have stopped the advance of our armies towards Berlin.

Were just lucky the war ended when it did, Nazi Germany had an amazing weapons program well ahead of its time.

If the war had gone on longer it would have just meant more dead germans.

It is pretty much a historically accepted fact that the Nazi war machine was, basically, overtaken by the sheer numbers of tha combined forces of the Allies.

The Americans and the Russians had massive military-economic development zones that were free of hostile bombers due to geographic considerations, and huge resources in terms of manpower. With few exceptions, in terms of military technology, German weaponry was at least on a par with Allied counterparts, and in many cases were vastly superior. The lists are too long to cite, but here are a few notable examples:

First operationa jet fighter/interceptor.
First operational jet bomber/recce aircraft.
Fastest piston aircraft (in production & armed).
First effective guided AGM.
First radar-equipped night fighter.
Best MBTs in terms of firepower and protection.
Best AAA.
First practical Assault Rifle.
The list goes on and on.......

Now, not everything they produced or fields was superior - they are plenty examples of crappy stuff too. But, it is generally agreed that if Hitler hadn't stupidly tried to crush the Soviets before he was done with GB, things would have be ALOT different than the way things actually turned out.......

Much of Germanys technical excellence was focused in a few fields, and the rest was of normal or inferior quality.

Very advanced Missile, aircraft and submarine design, and army doctrines.

Above average or average nuclear research, artillery, armor design.

Inferior naval and air doctrines, mass production techniques, small arms.


Now you can debate this all you like, and certainly you will suggest Germany had superior small arms, but #1, this is my opinion on the topic, so dont suggest Im quoting anything, and #2 I feel Im reflecting the overall situation of the nation, compared to a model vs model arguement. (In 44, much of the Wehrmacht still used the bolt Mauser, and although Mp40s were widespread, they werent as prevalent as the Thompson or Sten compared to the allies.)

Every nation had serious strongpoints and serious weaknesses, Germany being no exception. Germany had revolutionary aircraft design, but the Soviets had revolutionary armor designs.

Of course, Germany also has the highest number of patents per capita, so they may of had a more intelligent academic base. Of course, I dont want to be flamed for that, so its just a suggestion.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I take it someone else knows about Flemming (James Bond author) being a former spy himself, hehe....

Who doesnt lol

The Nazi's had this great radar technique. They would have two radar towers that were a little bit distant from each other. They would both point at the exact same coordinates in England. The bombers would fly out, and if they went too far one way, they would pick up one radar signal. If they went too far the other way, they would pick up the other radar signal. Once both of the signals started to converge, they knew they were at their target. Presto!

A big problem with Nazi fighter planes is that they did not have enough gas to engage in long dogfights. The British planes weren't as maneuverable. The Germans exploited the fact that the British planes would stall if they went into too deep of a dive. The Germans would dive sharply themselves to get out of the sites of the British and then sneak back around behind them. The German machine guns used MUCH bigger bullets than the British planes as well. Usually the dogfights between Nazi and German pilots were a draw in the usual 2 vs. 2 dogfight - one kill each. By that time the remaining german plane had no gas to get home, and the other British plane was too banged up to keep going.

Here's something else: the "allied" scientists who designed rockets and atomic bombs were Germans. Germany had the best chemists, physicists, and theoreticians around. Germans designed the A-bomb, but for America. Think about Einstein and other German defectors. Germany can also claim Boltzmann, one of the world's most amazing statistical mechanic physicists, rivaled only by America's Gibb.

Actually i have read that the only project for nuclear fission was a commercial project because they always thought that it would be a swift war and it would be useless so use up resources for that.

Germany was mostly ahead in about all areas. Thei're naval tactics were about on par. Air tactics was better at least in the beginning because they used the swarm formation.

The reason why germanu lost the battle of brittain is the accident when a german bomber bombed london. Churchill wanted berlin to be bombed in revenge. Then hitler wanted london flattened thus drawing away the pressure from the airfields of the brits which were near breaking point as the influx of new pilots was too low and theire airfields got more and more damaged.

Most of the 'special weapons' the Nazis developed during WW-II were infact developed prewar. In almost every case, the development of these weapons systems was halted in 1940/41 due go Goreings ruling that since the war was almost won, no weapon would be funded that would not be in production by 1941 ,at the latest. As a result of that, all were put on the back burner or lost until later in the war when Hitler woke upto reality that he was losing. Most were then restarted and thus reached production/protoyping by the end of the war. Had the developement of these weapons not been interuped they would have matured into mass producable weapons by 1942 and operational in quantity by 1943.

Weapons indevelopment from 1938-1940 were...

Hydrogen Peroxide propulsion plants for Uboats and torpedos[Walter Drive]
Acoustic guided torpedos and acoustic triggered mines [T4 & T-5]

Scouting Helicopters for warships/Uboat and artillery spotting roles[Fl-282]
Transport Heilcopters for troop transport [later versions would be armed]

Wire guided missiles for Anti tank role [X-7 & X-4].

Radio guided missiles for anti aircraft role launched from other planes [later vesions had wireguidance and eventually accoustic guidance] [Hs 298 & Ru-334].

Radio guided missiles for antishipping role launched from bombers [later wire guided versions for jam proof guidance]....Fritz X and Hs-293 ASM
TV guided missiles for antishipping role launched from bombers [version of the Hs-293].

Radio guided missiles for antibomber role launched from ground Hs-297 and later Hs-117 Schmetterling.

Jet fighters and Jet bombers and rocket assisted take off and rocket powered interceptors [Hs-178 , Me-262 Ar-234 & Me-163]

Early versions of APFSDS ammuntion [designed for bunker busting].
Early versions of shaped charge ammuntion .

Short range heavy rockets for bombardment [Nebelwefer]
Long range Heavy rockets for terror bombardment [V-2]
Long range cruisemissiles for terror bombardment [V-1]

The basic problem with the german war effort was not the technology, it was as good or better than anything their advesaries had , it was in the organization of the war economy that the germans fell flat on their face . It took them ~5 years to reorganize their industrial war effort [during the war] when every one else had done so in the early to late 1930s. Thus when the allies joined the wareffort , their industries reached capacity within about 1-2 year of the entry.

This was lack of perperation was Hitlers fault too.

The problem Nazi Germany had was that it was fighting the Britain (#loads of planes) as well as advancing into Russia.
If Hitler had Bided his time a bit more, he may have had more power before Churchill declared war.

The Nazi's also invented nerve gas at a time when no Allied powers knew about it. The Germans had stockpiled and arsenal of Sarin and Soman which made Saddams capability look like chicken feed. They had over 8000 tonnes of Sarin and several thousadn more of Soman.
Why yhis gas was never used is a mystery, some say Hitler had an aversion to gas after WWi, or that he feared allied retaliation with more conventioanl gasses ie. Mustard. Stories also abound that he did order their use but the order was countermanded.

If these gases had been used England would have been in alot of trouble, not too mention the Russians.

Six months, or even a year added to the war wouldn't have made any difference. Germany could have produced more weapons like A2A missiles, and SAMs, but they have no capacity to mass produce them in enough numbers to have made a huge difference. One of the big advantages the Allies had in the air war was that they could rotate their pilots home after a certain number of missions and use them to train other pilots. The German pilots were there for the duration, so by the end of the war most of their best pilots were killed or out of action. The same thing happened in the Pacific with Japan after Midway. By 1944, and into 1945 Germanys factories and resources to mass produce had been virtually eliminated. There were entire squadrons of planes that couldn't even fly because they weren't completed, or they didn't have the spare parts to repair them, or in some cases, the pilots.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
By 1944, and into 1945 Germanys factories and resources to mass produce had been virtually eliminated. There were entire squadrons of planes that couldn't even fly because they weren't completed, or they didn't have the spare parts to repair them, or in some cases, the pilots.

Albert Speer actually increased German output massively, Even with mass allied bombing in 1944, German industrial production increased hugely, well above any previous year.

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by Zaphod58
By 1944, and into 1945 Germanys factories and resources to mass produce had been virtually eliminated. There were entire squadrons of planes that couldn't even fly because they weren't completed, or they didn't have the spare parts to repair them, or in some cases, the pilots.

Albert Speer actually increased German output massively, Even with mass allied bombing in 1944, German industrial production increased hugely, well above any previous year.

Futher to this it has to be understood that had Hitler not been directly involved in the armament program their massive production [1944 level] would have been reached by 1942.

the nazi " super weapons " were too little too late , if you want a nazi win in WWII the best strategies include

abort the " z plan " and build ONLY ocean going U-boats and S- boats

as soon as you are at war , implement a war ecconomy

destroy the dunkirk pocket

persue the BoB untill the RAF is destroyed

attack the chain home system relentlessly

stick to the plan in barbarossa

do not declare war on the USA

no " wonder weapons " needed


YRS - APE

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
the nazi " super weapons " were too little too late , if you want a nazi win in WWII the best strategies include

abort the " z plan " and build ONLY ocean going U-boats and S- boats

do not declare war on the USA

no " wonder weapons " needed

YRS - APE

ZPlan was dropped within a year of its start, so no loss their and war with USA was implied in War with UK. It would not have happened right a way but would have happened eventually. All they could do was put that off.