China's Third World War

I wonder if China is provoking the world toward World War Three.

Here's a bio from a PhD who knows a little about the DPRK:

www.fortunecity.com...

Andrei Nikolaievich Lankov PhD

Dr. Lankov is a research fellow at the China and Korea Centre, Faculty of Asian Studies, Australian National University (ANU). He received his M.A. and Ph.D. from Leningrad State University; thesis on factionalism in Yi Dynasty Korea (Political Factions and Conflicts in Korea, 16-18th cc.). An enhanced version published in 1995 as a book in Russian.

His main research interests are North Korean political and social history, with a special emphasis on the state's formative periods (1945-1965) and the Soviet and Chinese policy toward the Korean Peninsula; the Modern Korean city and social and cultural aspects of modernization in Korea.

Lankov also has written a large number of newspaper articles in Russian and English. Among them, a regular column "Dawn of Modern Korea" is published (twice a week) by Korea Times. The column deals with one of his research topics – the history of everyday life in Korea. He has been handling North Korean delegations which visited the ANU in 1998-2004. He also gave interviews to a large number of radio and TV stations, including SBS, CNN and Reuters.

He published numberous books on North and South Korea including: P'yongyang-ui chibung mit' (Under the Roofs of Pyongyang). Seoul: Yonhap, 1991 -- From Stalin to Kim Il Sung. London: Hurst and Co., 2002 -- Crisis in North Korea: The Failure of De-Stalinization, 1956. Honolulu: Hawaii University Press, 2004

He says the following in his paper which you can read here:

www.fortunecity.com...

The purpose of this paper is to outline the major premises and methods of modern North Korean domestic propaganda.

[...]

The most characteristic feature of North Korean propaganda is the almost sterile information environment in which it is able to operate. In the last few decades the North Korean authorities have successfully maintained a virtually complete information monopoly within the country's borders. All but a tiny fraction of the information available to the average North Korean has been provided by some government agency. This monopoly is not challenged by any alternative source, either internal (for example, legal or illegal press) or outside (the foreign broadcasting and print media). The DPRK is a unique example of an almost "hermetically" sealed society. Except for a small elite, North Koreans know of the world only what they are allowed to know by their government and all information is selected by the authorities according to very strict criteria. Of course, some rumours do leak from outside or from people who have authorised access to politically sensitive information, but these rumours obviously do not have a broad circulation, not least because of the fact that the unauthorised on-telling of such an information is also very risky.

Since the outside world is seen by North Korean authorities as a source of danger and ideological corruption, the utmost care is taken to seal all possible channels by which unauthorised data from the outside could otherwise filter into the North Korean information space. Obviously, of these channels, radio is the most "natural" source of unwanted information: it is easy to use, relatively cheap (even by North Korean standards), and portable, as well as capable of being received at long-distances -- i.e. from foreign or South Korean radio stations. Thus, radio is a source of the special attention by the authorities and is kept under particularly harsh control. Pyongyang does not follow the old Soviet example of jamming foreign radio stations. The North Korean authorities have found a cheaper, and more reliable solution: they have simply banned the domestic sale and use of the free-tuning radio receivers. The small lamp receivers which can be bought in North Korean shops (of course, one has to have special permission to buy even this piece of vintage technology) are fixed on the wave-length of the official broadcasting station. Certainly, a person with some technical knowledge can easily make the necessary changes and transform such a receiver into a real radio set. To prevent this from happening, the police undertake periodic random inspections of all registered receivers. Controlling the "right" use of radio receivers is also an important task of the heads of the so-called "people's groups" (inminban) [*1]. According to some reports, the head of inminban can break into any house at any time (even in the dead of night) to check whether there is a non-registered receiver present. Such measures, obviously, are not water-proof, since at least one of the author’s North Korean acquaintances had access to a "normal" radio with free tuning and listened to foreign programs with his family, but this was, no doubt, a rather risky business.

...So it's safe to say that the DPRK has no free press (like the US does, still) and no respect for human rights.

Where did the DPRK get their power? Why from their Stalinist party structure and from Kim Il Sung's "leadership" qualities. As Doctor Lankov says in describing the post-WW2 North Korea:

times.hankooki.com...

All resistance was suppressed with an iron fist. The Pyongyang dreamers had few doubts about it, at least when they did not witness the violence directly. After all, the victims were"class enemies" and "reactionary elements".

And then the logic of the system made it clear that a concentration of power would be necessary. Personal ambition ensured that the struggle for domination developed at the apex of this pyramid. Actually, this is normal: the top levels of any human hierarchy tend to be a nasty place of intense rivalries, hypocrisy, and intrigue. The difference was that in the Stalinist system the losing side was not simply deprived of power: it was physically annihilated. With rare exceptions, the system did not provide an opportunity to leave politics peacefully, even when a person wanted to do so. This made the power struggle even more brutal, and soon the former idealists were at one another's throats.

Kim Il Sung eventually became a master of this cruel game, even if he initially was drugged into it somewhat reluctantly, and perhaps even against his own will (there are some reports that he was not very happy to play the nation's leader in 1946). Initially, he made sure that all factions united against the most vulnerable Southern group, which was destroyed in 1953-1955. Its most prominent members were tortured into delivering absurd "confessions" at a public trial, while the less prominent simply disappeared without trace. Then the same fate befell all the other groups that potentially could challenge Kim¡'s supremacy – and finally, in the late 1960s, even a number of Kim¡¯s own ex-guerrillas were sent to the prison camps, probably to demonstrate that nobody was invulnerable.

...So now Kim's son Kim Junior, is running the country. Here's what he thinks of his people, according to this report from a medical researcher, Fiona Terry:

217.29.194.251

Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) endeavoured to overcome these restrictions and create the minimum conditions necessary to work decently in North Korea between 1995 and 1998, but was unsuccessful. The teams realised that the government fabricated whatever they wanted aid workers to see: malnourished children in nurseries when more food aid was desired, and well-fed children when donors needed reassurance that food aid was doing good.

Refugee testimonies corroborate this: some report having carried food from military storage to nurseries before a UN visit, and others speak of being mobilised to dig up areas to exacerbate flood damage in preparation for a UN inspection.

MSF began to understand that the North Korean government categorises its population according to perceived loyalty and usefulness to the regime, and those deemed hostile or useless were expendable. In fact, in 1996, Kim Jong-il publicly declared that only 30% of the population needed to survive to reconstruct a victorious society. With no possibility of directing aid to those most in need, MSF withdrew.

Did you catch that part? 70% of his population needs to be killed. Considerably more evil than Dubya, if true.

Wikipedia under "Human Rights" for the so-called "Democratic Republic" run by Junior:

North Korea has one of the worst human rights records of any nation. Reports by human rights organizations and foreign governments regularly accuse the government of failing to protect the human rights of North Koreans (Amnesty International); North Korea receives particular criticism for its policy of preventing citizens from leaving the country freely.

North Korea is accused of employing concentration camps (video link) and severely restricting most freedoms, such as freedom of speech. These camps are believed to hold as many as 200,000 inmates, including children whose only crime is having class enemies for parents; in some of the camps, the annual mortality rate approaches 25% ([4], [5]). A recent BBC documentary ([6]) also reported that in one of these camps, North Korea tests chemical weapons on prisoners in a gas chamber: " 'I witnessed a whole family being tested on suffocating gas and dying in the gas chamber,' he said. 'The parents, son and and a daughter. The parents were vomiting and dying, but till the very last moment they tried to save kids by doing mouth-to-mouth breathing.' [The North Korean citizen] has drawn detailed diagrams of the gas chamber he saw. He said: 'The glass chamber is sealed airtight. It is 3.5 metres wide, 3m long and 2.2m high_ [There] is the injection tube going through the unit. Normally, a family sticks together and individual prisoners stand separately around the corners. Scientists observe the entire process from above, through the glass." ([7])

Fun stuff, huh? Probably nothing this bad was done at Gitmo, although who knows. Do you think there were any Chinese Party Observers for these crimes against humanity? Hmm...

Wikipedia continues:

Less often discussed are the human rights implications of North Korea's famine ([8]), which killed between 600,000 ([9]) and 3.5 million people ([10] ), mostly during the 1990's ([11]). By 1999, food and development aid reduced famine deaths. However, North Korea's deteriorating foreign relations resulting from its pursual of nuclear weapons led to a decline in foreign aid. In the spring of 2005, the World Food Program reported that famine conditions were in imminent danger of returning to North Korea ([12]), and the regime was reported to have ordered millions of city-dwellers to the countryside to perform farm labor ([13]).

North Korea's society is highly stratified by class, according to a citizen's family and political background ([14]). Refugees International ([15]), Médecins Sans Frontières ([16]), and Amnesty International ([17]), have all accused North Korea of discriminating against those in "hostile" classes in the distribution of basic necessities, including food. In some "closed" areas ([18]) that contained a higher concentration of "hostile" class members, the government appears to have prevented the delivery of any significant amounts of food aid at all.

Yet during this same period, North Korea maintained a massive military machine and supported an extravagant lifestyle for its leader, Kim Jong-Il ([19]). The World Food Program currently seeks $200 million in emergency food aid for North Korea ([20]) an increase from its 2004 request of $171 million ([21]). By comparison, its 2002 defense budget was $5.2 billion ([22]).

In 2005, news sources reported that North Korea continued to raise food prices while reducing food rations to the below-subsistence amount of 250 grams per person per day, the equivalent of two medium-sized potatoes ([23]).

The neutrality of this Wikipedia article is disputed, but the facts do not lie: Kim Junior is starving and torturing his own people, in a country of only 22 million. What gives him the right to decimate and screw humans on such a large scale?

Is Kim empowered in any way by all the Chinese tanks that back him up? I'd say yes. Clearly, in the face of this history, one cannot absolve China from the deaths of millions in North Korea and potentially millions more if Junior uses or facilitates the use of nukes.

Here's an interesting CFR commentary article about that:

www.foreignaffairs.org...

Unless conclusive new evidence comes to light, the entire uranium issue should be deferred so that the parties can focus on the more immediate threat: North Korea's known plutonium-reprocessing capabilities. Since the 1994 agreement collapsed, there is clear evidence that Pyongyang has reprocessed some or all of the 8,000 plutonium fuel rods at the Yongbyon reactor that had been safeguarded under the accord. By scuttling the 1994 agreement on the basis of uncertain data that it presented with absolute certitude, and by insisting that North Korea "confess" to the existence of a uranium program before new negotiations on denuclearization can begin, the Bush administration has blocked action on the one present threat that North Korea is known to pose: the threat represented by its reprocessed plutonium, which could be used for nuclear weapons or transferred to third parties.

So this guy is clearly wanting (and waging, even if only against his own people) World War Three.

I don't know about any axis of evil, but by his violations of human rights, Junior is provoking the concerned western world to action, particularly since his Chinese backers are gladhanding him and watching this tragedy unfold since WW2. Where will it go next? Where are those plutonium fuel rods? Probably not fueling Doc Brown's time machine although I think we might end up needing him.

Yes, I think that in fairness, even Souljah will have to agree that there are worse enemies on this planet than the US, dirty as Uncle Sam's hands may be. Let us expose global hegemony and cruelty on all fronts, not just the popular ones, says I.


[edit on 29-8-2005 by smallpeeps]

edit to shorten link

[edit on 29-8-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

I can't read so much english
but my answer to your question is NO
Chinese don't like war

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Springer]

Originally posted by xiaoxing
I can't read so much english
but my answer to your question is NO
Chinese don't like war

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Springer]

wow, if they don't like war then why they said they will invade taiwan if they declear indepencede...

Originally posted by ulshadow

Originally posted by xiaoxing
I can't read so much english
but my answer to your question is NO
Chinese don't like war

[edit on 9-6-2005 by Springer]

wow, if they don't like war then why they said they will invade taiwan if they declear indepencede...

I can believe xiaoxing when he says this, however I do not believe the Chinese leadership cares much about loss of life during times of conflict. I believe the communists are primarily concerned about retaining power. The people know their government is corrupt, and there is certainly unrest and a potential for further unrest in China. These totalitarian governments are rather precarious in some ways. I believe therefore they would be willing to start WWIII if it provides them a way to retain power, even 1 day longer than necessary.

xiaoxing said:Chinese don't like war

xiaoxing, please tell me more about why China would not want to have the US territory for itself. Don't you think many Chinese would be willing to de-radiate many acres of US soil if it meant they could stay there and rebuild?

How do you see China's future in regard to military spending, which is at at a rate never before seen? What really would Taiwan matter, if China could own the western half of the US? I am just thinking out loud here. Can you tell me the number of males to females in the Chinese areas? I think there are many more males than females. Wouldn't war be in the Party's best interests?

Why do Chinese people not protest their government's support and tolerance of the DPRK Sung regime? Do you believe the Chinese people share guilt in the Sung regime's crimes?

Thank you for any response.

@Small peeps

Sung regime should be Kim regime. i guess you based "sung" from the elder kim's - kim il sung - name. His surname is kim in case you are confused.

BTW, your claim that ww3 is being instigated by china through NK is far-fetched. The north may be mistreating its citizens but there will be no war unless a "concerned" (more like NOSY) third party interferes and threatens war upon them.

China is gearing up for conflict. The US (most likely third party to interfere) is already geared up for conflict. Chinas military spending is dwarfed by the US.

How come all these talk about western us being conqured by china? Way too much imagination on your part...

Sounds like someone's been reading too much into The Man in the High Castle to me.

Chinese warships cruise near gas field claimed by Japan
Five Chinese naval ships, including a guided-missile destroyer, were spotted on Sept. 9 near the Chunxiao gas field in the East China Sea — the site of a fierce Sino-Japan territorial dispute, Tokyo military officials said.

War Is Not Far from Us and Is the Midwife of the Chinese Century
We all know that on account of our national superiority, during the thriving and prosperous Tang Dynasty our civilization was at the peak of the world. We were the center of the world civilization, and no other civilization in the world was comparable to ours. Later on, because of our complacency, narrow-mindedness, and the self-enclosure of our own country, we were surpassed by Western civilization, and the center of the world shifted to the West.

Our Chinese people are wiser than the Germans because, fundamentally, our race is superior to theirs. As a result, we have a longer history, more people, and larger land area. On this basis, our ancestors left us with the two most essential heritages, which are atheism and great unity. It was Confucius, the founder of our Chinese culture, who gave us these heritages.

Take response to war as an example. The reason that the United States remains today is that it has never seen war on its mainland. Once its enemies aim at the mainland, they enemies would have already reached Washington before its congress finishes debating and authorizes the president to declare war.

The central committee believes, as long as we resolve the United States problem at one blow, our domestic problems will all be readily solved. Therefore, our military battle preparation appears to aim at Taiwan, but in fact is aimed at the United States, and the preparation is far beyond the scope of attacking aircraft carriers or satellites.


--China's Defense Minster Chi Haotian


Think about it all next time you buy Chinese products.

Dero Said: Sounds like someone's been reading too much into The Man in the High Castle to me.

Man in the High Castle ...Haven't read it but it sounds awesome.

I do read the I Ching and I practice Tai Chi. I am a huge fan of asian culture. Don't get me wrong. I posted this thread in contrast to another thread about how America is seeking WW3 against the world and has secretly waged such a war. I wanted to show how China's actions could easily be seen the same way.

thaei said: Sung regime should be Kim regime. i guess you based "sung" from the elder kim's - kim il sung - name.

BTW, your claim that ww3 is being instigated by china through NK is far-fetched. The north may be mistreating its citizens but there will be no war unless a "concerned" (more like NOSY) third party interferes and threatens war upon them.

Oops, thanks for the correction on the family name, Kim. Still, it was the Father who China placed into power, so don't you think they bear some part of his crimes? The American people would not tolerate a dictator like this to live in a country adjacent to them. Why does China allow it? His crimes are probably equal to those of the Japanese unit 731, which the Chinese experienced directly, so why don't they silence the younger Kim since he's commiting the same acts on innocent humans? Also, he is provoking nuclear war while thousands starve daily. Americans would stop this if one of our neighbors was so evil.

China is gearing up for conflict. The US (most likely third party to interfere) is already geared up for conflict. Chinas military spending is dwarfed by the US.

I agree that the USA is a warmaking nation. However, China could take the moral high road and pursue peace, particularly since they own Tibet which is the global center of peaceful thought. As it stands, I think the Chinese leaders may actually desire all-out war.



[edit on 16-9-2005 by smallpeeps]

Found this:

www.worldnetdaily.com...

CHINA WATCH
Dissident: Beijing planning nuclear war
Wei Jingsheng urges Americans to wake up to threat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: September 13, 2005 --- 1:00 a.m. Eastern
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Chinese dissident Wei Jingsheng warns of Beijing's nuclear threat

A leading Chinese dissident warns the United States has not paid enough attention to a growing threat of nuclear war with China.

Wei Jingsheng, who spent 18 years in detention for his pro-democracy activism, told a forum at the National Press Club in Washington that China needs the distraction of a war with Taiwan to turn attention away from the people's frustration with rampant corruption and failed policies at home, reported the Epoch Times, an independent news service that focuses on China.

[...]

Wei said a number of factors are prompting Beijing to consider conventional warfare against Taiwan and even nuclear warfare against the U.S.

He pointed out a treaty with Russia, a traditional enemy, stipulates that if China invades Taiwan, Moscow will not support the U.S. in its defense of the island.

To me, this means: "Russia's warheads will land in America, if the war for Taiwan goes nuclear."

This article continues:

The exercises in August were to include launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles [...].

Wei said the Chinese Communist Party is considering nuclear war, because it is not afraid to sacrifice China's people.

He cited Chinese general Zhu Chenghu's recent public declaration that China would launch nuclear weapons if attacked by the U.S. and that "we … will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all the cities east of Xian," which would include Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou.

The dissident warned Americans not to underestimate the irrational behavior of the communist leadership.

[...]

Some panelists said the Communist Party fears for its future, pointing out the recent resignation of 4 million party members.

The Epoch Times said its nine-part editorial series on the party, published last November, is partly responsible for the mass resignations.

[...]

America is sleeping, dreaming images of a pleasant, peaceful China, all the panelists agreed.

Panelist Frank Gong said the Communist Party knows that if it allows political liberty and freedom of speech, its past crimes – including an estimated 80 million dead – will be exposed, and the party will face "immediate collapse."

I would like us all to discuss this very quickly, based on this article.

80 million dead inside the Chinese territories? Death to all cities East of Xian?

I realize this has been discussed elsewhere, but I just want to point out that the US does not have any generals making crazy statements or fleeing citizens warning of the desperate state of its rulers.

If you were going to be gutted like a fish mussolini-style, and so were all your party buddies, you'd be willing to sacrifice your country too. Look at China's history... Nothing but civil wars.

The USA is the first magnificent enemy China has faced on a global scale. There are racial supremacists inside China, just as evil and deadly as the racists inside the USA, believe me.

The question is: Are communist leaders or capitalist leaders more likely to own nicely fortified bunkers?




[edit on 16-9-2005 by smallpeeps]

I realize this has been discussed elsewhere, but I just want to point out that the US does not have any generals making crazy statements or fleeing citizens warning of the desperate state of its rulers.

what about Bush's "jihad"? what about "You're either with us or you're against us?" What about ~50% of the US population not in support of the president? Bush wasn't exactly supportive in his statements about Katrina either.

If you were going to be gutted like a fish mussolini-style, and so were all your party buddies, you'd be willing to sacrifice your country too. Look at China's history... Nothing but civil wars.

USA has had a lot of wars...remember, the Revolutionar War counts as a civil war too. This war on Iraq has completely no reason either. Remember, its because of the Japs and Brits that allowed China's communist party to take over China.

The USA is the first magnificent enemy China has faced on a global scale. There are racial supremacists inside China, just as evil and deadly as the racists inside the USA, believe me.

I don't know anything about racial supremacy groups in China so I can't argue with that, but I know that Americans definetely have less respect for Chinese as Chinese have for Americans...most of the common Chinese people love Americans because of USA influence.

I think the question should be, who is really the evil one, the capitalists or the communists (china isn't even communist anymore)? Just because the ethos of this era sides with capitalists doesn't make capitalistic views correct.

David Icke has been speaking of a pre-organised war with china, for years now.
Take a look at his semi-recent stuff, 'Alice in wonderland and the world trade centre disaster', in which he refers to the inevitable (and designed) conflict between the PRC and the USA, fighting for the world's resources.
Alot of the recent news media has been trying to gain sympathy for Japan, in preparation for possible alliances against china.

smallpeeps

You may be interested in the thread i started on the new possible China-Russia Alliance

Not sure if this is just political posturing or military preperations for WWIII. Either way this could get bad quick imho.

[edit on 6-10-2005 by Rren]

I read your other post Rren and I definately think we share the same concerns. I wish this topic was discussed more. Chinese people in general do not seem to be Marxists, because they inherited a spiritual form of collectivism (buddhism) which should have made Karl Marx look primitive. China is now a nation totally different from the USA. It is a country with a communist population that doesn't yet see its bourgiouse sector for what it is. Certainly the bosses must be nervous.

Below is the above-mentioned collection of commentaries which have supposedly caused five million CCP party members to leave the party:

ninecommentaries.com...

After reading this stuff, I can see why the party bosses may fear for their lives. This is the website which published these commentaries, and this particular page is their index of "Quitting the CCP" stories:

english.epochtimes.com...

...I don't think five million people represents a large portion of the CCP in China, but I understand that this has happened since November of last year, which might be a very significant acceleration in people exiting the party. Can you actually leave the communist party? I have no idea how all that works.

Now, ask yourself which is worse: Birdflu in China or American nukes in China, because I believe the CCP bosses are considering this very same question. If bird flu happens throughout China with massive death tolls, the CCP may be faced with riots and loss of control.

Nuke war, however will unite the remaining proletariat. The party wins, but the country loses.

[EDIT]

Here's the commentaries in book form. broadbook.com...

I am continuing to read them and will post what I find.

[edit on 6-10-2005 by smallpeeps]

xiaoxing, please tell me more about why China would not want to have the US territory for itself.

Because it's full of americans! HAHAHA

Seriously i think that war with china is inevitable if they think to expand throught japan, north korea and taiwan.

Originally posted by smallpeeps
Now, ask yourself which is worse: Birdflu in China or American nukes in China, because I believe the CCP bosses are considering this very same question. If bird flu happens throughout China with massive death tolls, the CCP may be faced with riots and loss of control.

Not only the mainland chinese have to worry about avian influenza, but also its' neighbours, especially indonesia and japan, (being two major island groups that the infected birds could migrate to). As an australian, I worry about the ramifications of having outbreaks of avian flu in Indonesia, as it is directly in between the asian subcontinent, and the australian continent. Anything in the way of biological terror (oh, wait, sorry, no, it's 'naturally occurring' *coff* bollocks *coff*) would come to Aus. from Indonesia.

Given the massive export market from china, would it not be logical to presume that species of birds succeptible to avian flu could hitch a ride on shipping freighters headed overseas?

[edit on 6-10-2005 by nrky]

The Red Dragon awakens

IMHO china is not looking to start any world war because it just wouldnt be in China's best interest. No nuclear power would fight China in a convential war they would have to resort to nuclear weapons. Nuclear war is just not in anybodies best interest.

The third world war will be the product of the world's cancer, humanity. China will just be a major player in it, but it will nonetheless be the result of apathy of powerful people refusing to be logical.

China sells arms to Venezuela, we give arms to Taiwan. You can see the cycle of existence. Its all a matter of playing chess with human lives.

China sells arms to Venezuela

I thought I'd include a link to this fact:

www.sbpost.ie...

The deal also includes the purchase of “other air security equipment” such as radios, and the possibility of renting a satellite communications system, the Defence Ministry said in a statement. The cost of the deal was not disclosed.

Originally posted by Regenmacher
We all know that on account of our national superiority, during the thriving and prosperous Tang Dynasty our civilization was at the peak of the world. We were the center of the world civilization, and no other civilization in the world was comparable to ours. Later on, because of our complacency, narrow-mindedness, and the self-enclosure of our own country, we were surpassed by Western civilization, and the center of the world shifted to the West.

Our Chinese people are wiser than the Germans because, fundamentally, our race is superior to theirs. As a result, we have a longer history, more people, and larger land area. On this basis, our ancestors left us with the two most essential heritages, which are atheism and great unity. It was Confucius, the founder of our Chinese culture, who gave us these heritages.

umm your race is superior to the german race? that is quite a racist comment. as for defeating the us in one blow: that would be impossible outside of a nuclear attack and that would be pointless because both countries would be in ruins.its not conventionally possibledont forget japan thought they could do the same thing).currently, chiinas vast manpower could only overwhelm the us if the war was fought on chinese turf.
as for a another post about no wars being fought on the us mainland, there was the revolutionary war, the civil war, and currently, terrorist attcks



[edit on 9-10-2005 by rockonchucktown]

edited to shorten quote

[edit on 9-10-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]