Remote Viewing!!

Does anyone know if the government still has these think tanks that were used in the 1970's where trained people used remote viewing to explore situations like the dissapearance of Phobos II?? This topic is very interesting. Also, these RV's got positive feedback of martian life here on Earth located under the ocean and within mountains in addition to under the surface of Mars. What do you think or know?

I do not think anyone is really sure if the government is still investigating this or not. Most people assume they are but myself I kinda wonder.

The problem with RV is that the beliefs of the person doing the work are always an influence. If you had someone who was a true blank slate then what you could get would be much more reliable. Still it can be a powerful tool depending on what you wish to accomplish.

I read Cosmic Voyage not too long ago which does contain some of the material of which you speak. I really thought I had something interesting for the first handful of chapters. Then he went and visited 'Jesus' and I just had to sigh.

I realize that many people believe that JC was an actual person who walked the Earth. After a lot of research I have concluded that this is not the case. All the claims of evidence for his existance resolve down to 'well a friend of a friend knew him' or something similar. Yet here was Dr. Brown talking to him. How exactly does one contact a myth with no basis in physical reality?

The answer seems to be that RV can easily confuse what you believe with what is actual truth. I know RV can be used successfully, I have no doubts of that. But at the same time it can easily lead to conculsions about things which have no basis in Reality. It is helpful to remember that RV does not bring pictures to the viewer, it is all based on impressions.

My feeling is that the military probably discovered this problem. There are at least some hints of this in Cosmic Voyage in the conversations between Dr. Brown and his mentor.


A.T
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I realize that many people believe that JC was an actual person who walked the Earth. After a lot of research I have concluded that this is not the case. All the claims of evidence for his existance resolve down to 'well a friend of a friend knew him' or something similar. Yet here was Dr. Brown talking to him. How exactly does one contact a myth with no basis in physical reality?

Thats ridiculous. So you think that billions of people across the globe for 2 thousand years have been deluded into thinking that a person existed who did not? Hell, even the most profound atheists believe that JC was a real person. I don't think the human race is stupid enough to create a religion based on nothing, thats absurd. Even if he wasn't the son of God he must have existed.

So you think that billions of people across the globe for 2 thousand years have been deluded into thinking that a person existed who did not?

Yep. I know this offends people who believe and I am sorry about that. I do not think it matters all that much really, what matters are the words and ideals that go along with the religion.

Hell, even the most profound atheists believe that JC was a real person. I don't think the human race is stupid enough to create a religion based on nothing, thats absurd.

The only reason anyone would think that is because they have not done the research I have done. If you study the history of religion you will find we have been doing this since time began. The religion is not based on 'nothing' it is based on the Inspired works of a handful of men. The original words are pretty good if you know how to read them without falling into the trap of taking them too literally.

So do you think that Odin, Zeus, and Thoth were real as well? The people of the time certainly would have told you they were. They were just as sure as you are today.

The main reason that Christianity has lasted as long as it has is rather simple: the invention of the printing press. Before that time religions came and went along with the civiliations who created them. The stories did not vanish which is why we know of Odin and others today. But without the means to create large number of books, older religions relied on word of mouth.

I should mention that when I began my research into this topic I fully expected to find some proof that JC existed. I did not set out to prove that he did not, that is simply the conclusion I came to when all the facts were examined.


A.T
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[edit on 8/27/05 by Alexander Tau]

A.T, you just gave me reason to question you even more. What DaTerminator said.

Akuzar, here are a couple links, if you want to investigate RV even further.

www.crvmanual.com...
www.militaryremoteviewers.com...
www.learnrv.com...
www.psitalk.com...
www.rvcommunity.net...

I feel these RV programs were the start of something much bigger, and the gov has gone well beyond, and potentially in a different direction than RV. Does it exist, yes I think it does and these capabilities are there. I personally believe RV and telepathy are related, but different.

How do we know that anyone existed 2000 years ago? How do we what things happened? It was passed from one person to another. It was written down. That is how all history works.

What it boils down to is you. If you want to find evidence that someone never existed or something never happened you WILL find it. On the other hand you can find plenty of evidence that a person did exist or the event did happen.

The accounts of Jesus Christ are a part of history just like anything else that ever happened. If spent some time on it I'm sure you could come up with evidence that there never was a Roman Empire.


Who do you suppose then invented Jesus Christ?


[edit on 27-8-2005 by imas]

In fact, history in the early roman empire would make no sense if Christ wasn't a real person. The roman empire encompassed a lot of people of different cultural and religious groups. The official religion was the greek series of God's, but the empire still allowed for people to follow there old beliefs. But, for some reason, Christianity was made a high crime. The emperors of Rome were disgusted by it and blamed Christians for everything bad that happened in ancient Rome. Nero blamed them for the fires that engulfed the capital, (although in truth they were caused by dry wood and heat, and Nero let them burn so he could have new ground to construct another palace). If Christianity was made up by a few clever authors (which is highly unlikely), then there shouldn't have been such disgust for it among Jewish and Pagan people.

Im so sure that 2000 years ago in a country where they spoke aramaic addressed Jesus as "Jesus" Pronunciation Gee-zus

Well multiple authors did give the same account. They were eventually combined and put into the same book. The Bible. It may be considered one source today but at one time it was actually many sources.

I thought this thread was about remote viewing.

If I may; If the military isn't persueing RV I would be suprised. Even if the program only had limited success they would still find funding in the black ops dept. and research RV in hopes that on day they might stumble on the "ah haa" factor.

Iv'e read lots of books, checked out Maj. Ed's course but alas, no luck.
I approached RV from a purely selfish standpoint. I wanted to find out the winning horse in the first race at my local track. All I wanted was a name or number. Was that asking to much?

If any one has the secret to RVing, u2u me, It'll be our little secret! And I don't mean Recreational vehicle either.

[edit on 27-8-2005 by whaaa]

I thought this thread was about remote viewing

Oh it is, but I happened to explain my problem with the book Cosmic Voyage and touched off this little sideshow. My point being that what a person believes influences what they get via RV, or at least can depending on what they are trying to see. RV is a real and useful tool, but like all tools it has it's limitations.

I see Dr. Browns contacts with JC and 'God' as examples of this limitiation.

If I may; If the military isn't persueing RV I would be suprised. Even if the program only had limited success they would still find funding in the black ops dept. and research RV in hopes that on day they might stumble on the "ah haa" factor

Possible although generally the military is so focused on results I wonder. I suppose it really depends on how useful they found the information they did gain.

In fact, history in the early roman empire would make no sense if Christ wasn't a real person.

I do not see your logic here, the religion was real and that is what they were reacting to, no need for a physical person as the basis of it.

How do we know that anyone existed 2000 years ago? How do we what things happened? It was passed from one person to another. It was written down. That is how all history works.

We know people existed in the past because of what they left behind. I can prove the existance of the Roman Empire through a ton of documents and Buildings they created. There are 40+ historians who left behind accounts of the days that supposedly are when JC lived, not one of them mentioned him. That is historical fact.

Christ left no written works behind, no one that directly 'knew' him left any either. The first document that told his story did not appear until at least 2 generations after the time he supposedly lived. Does that really make a lot of sense? Someone this powerful and awesome and no one bothered to write anything he said down? Historians of the time wrote about the price of grain in the marketplace but not about him?

I never set out to disprove JC's existance, I just wanted to know if he was indeed an actual person. Since I am not a Christian it did not matter to me one way or the other. Some religious figures were real, most were not, and in this case it turned out to be not.



A.T
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[edit on 8/27/05 by Alexander Tau]

We know people existed in the past because of what they left behind. I can prove the existance of the Roman Empire through a ton of documents and Buildings they created. There are 40+ historians who left behind accounts of the days that supposedly are when JC lived, not one of them mentioned him. That is historical fact.

Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. Remember, Jesus was only big in Judea. Not many people in rome new about him when he was alive.

Christ left no written works behind, no one that directly 'knew' him left any either. The first document that told his story did not appear until at least 2 generations after the time he supposedly lived. Does that really make a lot of sense? Someone this powerful and awesome and no one bothered to write anything he said down? Historians of the time wrote about the price of grain in the marketplace but not about him?

I'm afraid you are mistaken. Some of the apostles were disciples during the time that Christ lived and they were very close friends of him. Peter (close follower of Christ when he was alive) was the person who started Christianity. Also, we know that there were Christians before and during the time of the writing of the new testament books. Paul, for instance, was a persecuter of Christianity and killed and imprisoned hundreds of early Christians. Obviously these Christians had to be strong in there convictions in order to stay Christian. Also, did you know that the majority of early Christians probably had no access to any of the texts? They still had a deep belief in Him though.

It would simply be illogical to assume that Jesus never existed. I can't think of a single moment in history where people began to follow a fictitious man even if it endangered their life.

Yes your statement is disproved by the New Testament. It is full of first hand accounts of Jesus Christ.

Josephus. The sole non-gospel reference to the NT account of Jesus and his ministry. The Jewish historical texts mention none of it. Not one disciple, or miracle, but that proves naught. The only characters in the NT confirmed by any other source are the famous, prominent ones, like Herod, Caesar, and Pilate. No members of Jesus' circle can be found outside Josephus and the gospels. Such scarce support is hard to call proof. I feel he did live, but am not absolutely positive. Josephus could have written all four gospels himself, in which case he would be the founder of Christianity. I doubt that is the case, or his intent. His children rose to prominence in Rome, though, thanks to his writings, which contain very suspect claims, imho. Jesus may be fiction, I doubt it, but he may be. JFK's murder is a big mystery, and that happened 42 years ago, 2000 years ago.... how can we know what happened for sure? I can't.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Josephus. The sole non-gospel reference to the NT account of Jesus and his ministry. The Jewish historical texts mention none of it. Not one disciple, or miracle, but that proves naught. The only characters in the NT confirmed by any other source are the famous, prominent ones, like Herod, Caesar, and Pilate. No members of Jesus' circle can be found outside Josephus and the gospels. Such scarce support is hard to call proof. I feel he did live, but am not absolutely positive. Josephus could have written all four gospels himself, in which case he would be the founder of Christianity. I doubt that is the case, or his intent. His children rose to prominence in Rome, though, thanks to his writings, which contain very suspect claims, imho. Jesus may be fiction, I doubt it, but he may be. JFK's murder is a big mystery, and that happened 42 years ago, 2000 years ago.... how can we know what happened for sure? I can't.

Can you know what happened for sure? Yes you can. That is faith. Can you prove it? There will never be enough proof for some people and it doesn't matter what you do. Some people will believe and some people will not.

I will say something though. I was not raised to believe and when I gave my life to the Lord I learned something I never thought was possible. It is real. You CAN know in your heart without a doubt. Until you have had that feeling you just can not imagine it.

Is it really that crazy to believe? To step out on faith? Look where our discussion is taking place. There is no more proof of the paranormal or extraterrestrial or the conspiracy theories than this. But I'm inclined to think there is something around here you believe.

There are many "stories" that have been recorded and handed down over the years. Many of these were considered historical accounts before actual proof was found. For many pieces of history we don't even have proof of the events but only writings of those event. Yet many of these events are still taught in college level history classes with even less evidence than the Bible.

Different writings were collected together to form the Bible. The books were written by different people and there is quite a bit of evidence to support that.

The places have been confirmed and it is confirmed that many of the people in the Bible actually lived in these places at those times that they are said to. Many details in the Bible have been proven but none have been disproven. This is what I mean when I talk about the choice to believe. You have chosen not to believe and as long as you have made up your mind there will never be enough evidence.

Originally posted by imas
Many details in the Bible have been proven but none have been disproven.

Change none to many.

Originally posted by Simon666
Change none to many.

But of course! You seem to be a credible source.

Also, these RV's got positive feedback of martian life here on Earth located under the ocean and within mountains in addition to under the surface of Mars.

That part of the original post is what made me think the poster was referring to Cosmic Voyage and the work of Dr. Brown. Akuzar, it would be helpful if you would return here and comment on what has been said. If you were not referring to Dr. Brown's work please be a little more specific about what references you have seen and we can talk about those.

I did not intended to start a debate about the existence, or lack thereof, of Jesus. I merely used that to illustrate how the preconceptions of the Viewer could be a problem when the powerful tool of RV is used improperly.

Some preconceptions go very deep, and as a result are connected to everything else we think or believe. Most people do not realize that even the simplest of perceptions are shaped by our beliefs.

Example, hopefully a safer one, Harry Potter. I have been involved in the occult my entire adult life. My interest is wide, I have studied many things I do not believe in, or practice, but I am aware of them. So if there is anyone in the world who could detect any hint of actual magickal information in a book I am he. There is nothing, n o t h i n g, in the Harry Potter books that teaches anyone to do anything magickal in the slightest.

They were written by a Teacher, in hopes of getting kids, and adults, to read. In this she has been remarkably successful and in my not-so-humble opinion deserves the Nobel Prize. What she has accomplished is so wonderful I am still stunned by it.

And yet there are people who want them banned, who refuse to let their children read them because they are evil. To do so is a crime.

Preconceptions

It deals with movie magic, silly kid stuff, harmless in the extreme. But because these people have had it drilled into their heads that any mention of the words 'magic', 'Witch' or 'Wizard' is the work of the 'devil' they reject it. Let me make it clear this is not every religious person, nor is it every Christian. My wife has been watching this whole matter since the beginning and she tells me all sorts of stories of people who have manged to put their preconceptions aside long enough to actually read the books. In every case she is aware of, once this has been done the objections cease.

I give my highest regard to those people who have overcome these fears.

Because I understand how this works I cannot say I am surprised I got the reaction I did when I mentioned my belief that JC never existed. I did not mean to start this debate, if I had thought about it for 2 seconds I would have found another way to illustrate my point.

But I am an objective observer when it comes to JC, I am not Christian so it does not matter to me if he lived or did not. People keep saying, or at least hinting, that I set out to disprove him, that is false. Believe me or not, but I am being honest. I just wanted to know the truth.

I feel my conclusions are more valid than the people that have jumped on me so quickly over that tiny little comment because I am objective, they are not.

Think about this for a moment: What would it do to you if I were proven correct? Would it shatter your faith? For most people it would.

You cannot be objective and you know it.

The plain fact is that I could have all the evidence in the world, proof enough to convince 10 Juries that I was correct and it would only matter to a tiny fraction of people. Most would still dismiss the evidence, and me, because they have no other choice.


When I first started to read Cosmic Voyage I was excited. Here was a smart guy, with the letters to prove it, who was going to investigate RV in a proper manner. He documented his work, cross-checked his findings, everything one is supposed to do. I really did think this was going to lead me somewhere unique.

At first he investigated some things that made me skeptical, but because of the way the work was done I was willing to withhold judgement. Fantastic things, but the subject is fantastic so that is to be expected.

Then he met Jesus. And the specter of Preconceptions reared it's ugly head. How can I trust his data when he does not even realize this simple mistake? He has committed the most fundamental of errors, letting what he wants to be true cloud his vision of what is true.

In that moment I realized fully the limitations of RV. Just like any other Intuitive tool you have to be careful to avoid letting what you desire to be true override what your senses are reporting to you.

So please, really, lets drop the debate over the existance of Jesus, and discuss RV. I promise for the duration of this Thread to use other examples to illustrate my points. Let's talk about the strengths and limitations of RV, or even what parts of what has been published on the subject we accept.



A.T
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[edit on 8/28/05 by Alexander Tau]

i r teh natural remote viewer so yeah and there are people that work for the goverment and get paid quite alot of money for remote viewing probaly more in a week of 8 hours of work and make more than most people make in a year