Water fuel technology

Well done Snap - I was waiting for someone to post those plans.

I actually know of a gentleman who runs his car off this technology, however he had to have his engine "tweaked" with a few ceramic parts as the mixture apparently burns at a higher temp. I also believe he has three "separation cylinders" to produce enough hydrogen/oxygen mixture to power his car. Apparently, it all boils down to waters resonant frequency - get that and the water actually starts fizzing...and there's very little power input as well.

...and all he uses for his fuel is good old h2o.

Cheers

JS

I've been thinking of trying it myself. Are you sure he had to use the ceramic because of heat? All of the info I have on it says the engine should be cooler when run on hydrogen than on gas. The ceramic (or stainless steel) is normally used to stop the engine from rusting due to the water.

I wouldn't even think of converting my car until I tried it on a test engine first though :p

Snap:

Normal gas is fine (from the service station), however apparently this gas is a hydrogen/oxygen mix and it burns at a higher temp - thus the need for ceramics. I believe his piston heads are ceramic or at least ceramic coated. He also mentioned something about the valves as well so they may be ceramic or have a ceramic coat as well.

Cheers

JS

Yes, you have to have the pistons, valves, and cylinders ceramic coated to stop them from rusting. If you have an all stainless steel engine, then you don't need to do it.

Another advantage a system like the one I was talking about would have , is that the water could be heated by solar energy also.

Most energy calculations of electrolysis of water are based on room temperature. But I see no reason why the sun can't pre-heat the water for the system.

Edit: I just found this.

www.humboldt.edu...

THE SCHATZ SOLAR HYDROGEN PROJECT

The Schatz Solar Hydrogen Project is a full-time, automated, stand-alone energy system that demonstrates that hydrogen can be used to store solar energy. It powers the air compressor that aerates the aquaria at Humboldt State University's Telonicher Marine Laboratory in Trinidad, California. The system uses energy from the sun to power the compressor directly and to produce hydrogen that powers the compressor when the sun is not available. The end result is that the fish enjoy solar-powered air bubbles twenty-four hours a day.

In the solar hydrogen cycle, solar energy provides the electricity to remove hydrogen from ordinary water by the process of electrolysis. The hydrogen can then be stored or transported. When hydrogen is recombined with oxygen, usable energy results. No resources are consumed and the only byproduct is pure water. In this cycle hydrogen is an energy carrier; it allows us to store and transport solar energy in large quantities.

[edit on 28-8-2005 by lost_shaman]

A system like the one mentioned above would also play into all the strengths of the PEM Fuel cell.

• Using the O2 from the electrolysis is more efficient than using air.
  
  
• Using the pure H2 will not degrade the PEM
  
  
• The design of the PEM fuel cell could be spread out flat instead of stacked , so it can bake in the sun too and increase efficiency.
  
  

[edit on 29-8-2005 by lost_shaman]

Well there are obviously people here against fuel cell powered cars and obviously some who are for it. I, for one, am for the technology. Anyhoo using the search feature I found this thread a while back, but it seems good.

The Ultimate Power Source

lost_shaman:

For the plans provided by Snap, frequency is the key - heat really has no real effect...as for standard fuels cells, well it may be the case.

As for the PEM Fuel cell, hydrogen and oxygen still have to be produced.

I'm sticking to fizzing water as I know it works and it produces a hydrogen/oxygen mix with a simple resonant frequency. And that's the key to many things:

resonance...

Now combine that with implosion (instead of explosion) and you have even more energy...

vortex's are a good start

Cheers

JS

Originally posted by jumpspace
lost_shaman:

For the plans provided by Snap, frequency is the key - heat really has no real effect...as for standard fuels cells, well it may be the case.

Heat speeds up the reaction rates , thus providing more power.

As for the PEM Fuel cell, hydrogen and oxygen still have to be produced.

Thats what I was talking about , electrolysis.

Problem with electrolysis, it takes lot's of energy to produce a sizable amount of hydorgen and oxygen gas from water. The rate which this occurs is slow too. We ran quite a bit of current through water in a specialy designed flask, we got nothing but small bubbles forming on the cathode and anode. Heating the water would be a hazard for people manufacturing the hydrogen/oxygen (it's dangerous work), solar energy wouldn't be enough to keep up with demand in the future if this gets implimented. Vast areas of land would have to be cleared to create a large enough solar collection area(s) to generate the energy or heat needed, envirometal effects would be devistating. I don't see a promising future for this kind of water fuel system, it will produce alot of pollution from coal, oil, and nuclear sources, and large areas of land would have to be dedicated to solar arrays to generate enough energy to make sizable quanties of hydrogen. For every positive you can think of there always will be a negative. Hydrogen fuel looks good now, it being clean and all, but what are the negatives.




[edit on 8/29/2005 by GoldEagle]

Originally posted by GoldEagle

Problem with electrolysis, it takes lot's of energy to produce a sizable amount of hydorgen and oxygen gas from water. The rate which this occurs is slow too. We ran quite a bit of current through water in a specialy designed flask, we got nothing but small bubbles forming on the cathode and anode. Heating the water would be a hazard for people manufacturing the hydrogen/oxygen (it's dangerous work), solar energy wouldn't be enough to keep up with demand in the future if this gets implimented. Vast areas of land would have to be cleared to create a large enough solar collection area(s) to generate the energy or heat needed, envirometal effects would be devistating. I don't see a promising future for this kind of water fuel system, it will produce alot of pollution from coal, oil, and nuclear sources, and large areas of land would have to be dedicated to solar arrays to generate enough energy to make sizable quanties of hydrogen. For every positive you can think of there always will be a negative. Hydrogen fuel looks good now, it being clean and all, but what are the negatives.

Yes there are alot of negatives , but in the type of application I was talking about none of those typical negative issues arise. ( See my first post on page one)

When using Solar power to provide the electricity for the electrolysis , you truly have a green source of free energy. And you don't need a giant power plant to do that .

What I'm talking about is simply using electrolysis to store extra solar energy so that a home could have power on cloudy days , or you could use the fuel cells to pump electricity back into the grid when the tanks are full generating yourself a little cash.

I think that , yes it takes massive amounts of electrcity to generate Hydorgen if you want to replace millions of barrels of Gasoline to power cars on a daily basis. But it doesn't take massive amounts of electricity to power electrolysis.

The energy required to produce hydrogen by electrolysis is about 32.9 kW-hr/kg. A kilogram is about 2.2 lb. For 1 mole (2 g) of hydrogen the energy is about 0.0660 kW-hr / mole.

The Schatz Solar Hydrogen Project uses 192 Siemens M75 48 watt modules , that use the extra electricity to produce 20 Liters of Hydrogen per minute.

Thats about 6.25 liters per hour per unit.

I know that GE has a 110 watt solar panel you can buy. GEPV-110-M Solar Panel






[edit on 29-8-2005 by lost_shaman]

lost_shaman, it sounds like your describing the same thing Stanford Ovshinsky is proposing. Use solar panels to separate the hydrogen and oxygen from water at stations that people can go to refill their hydrogen cars.

He recently announced he was going to build a prototype station near to me in Akron, Ohio, which is where he was born. He runs a company called Energy Conversion Devices (ECD). He has several patents in solar panels as well as flat panel displays to name a few. I was planning on researching this, but have not had time. Meanwhile here is a link to his company.

www.ovonic.com...

This document explains how the hydrogen is generated and infrastructure needed to covert to hydrogen.

www.ovonic.com...

Haven't read much of it, but it sounds promising to me. Enjoy.