Hurricane Katrina

Can i say that the coverage of CNN is really good. they are very critical and dare to say something to the official people. very good coverage!

I have a question regarding this whole ordeal...

If, say, Katrina had been a terrorist attack, would the response been much quicker? (IMHO, probably)

And, if we can't handle a natural disaster, how are we going to handle a man-made disaster (the next terrorist attack)?? Sure, we've got all the stuff in place to keep a terrorist attack from happening, but - as it is evident with Katrina - we're no where near ready to react when it does (and I'm sure eventually will) happen.

Oh, and I love Bush's speech...

"Sorry to hear about the dead people", then he spent the rest of the time talking about gas prices. Shows where his priorities are...

I sat down with my family to watch the news for the first time in quite a while at dinner....We were all just thinking of how blessed we are to be in a house, with A/C, food, etc...

And then Anderson Cooper (whom I've developed a certain amount of respect for over these past few days) began questioning the role of the military - Why is it taking so long? Could they have done more?

My dad just lost it....Cursing him left and right, how could he ask a question like that, would the gov't really let its own people suffer, these media people are ignorant and just looking for someone to blame, and etc etc....

I held back my thoughts and just left the room (Actions speak louder than...)

Considering he's ex-army, I can see and understand where he's coming from - I usually would have a very similar view on the media - But, point-blank, I think he's wrong....And I think over the coming months he's just going to sit back and boil as the tough questions get asked...The ones he thinks are illegitimate...

Anyone have any experience with male-menopause here?!

They had days advance warning.. and could have done more before this storm made landfall.

They could have used military force and equipment to eveacuate NO, before this became a crisis.

Looking back it is always easy to be critical.. but this is one time I believe we came up short.

Our nation does such a great job around the world helping other nations in need or in a time of crisis.. Like our poor and starving who always seem to go un-noticed.. This storm shows how little we really care about our own.

Have we done enough?

Please.. you tell me?


Gazz

what I don't understand is that on Saturday we all knew a Category 5 was going to hit somewhere in the Gulf coast, we all know what the devastation from a Category 5 would look like, why wasn't all the help and mobilized ahead of time? No one should be surprised by the devastion, the NHC was predicting even worse...the government should have been more proactive in this situation. They warn us citizens to prepare for hurricanes, why the hell weren't they prepared for the aftermath?

[edit on 9-1-2005 by worldwatcher]

Originally posted by Aelita

Yes I do. The hurricanes are likely to grow worse with all the global warming going on. Building under the sea level doesn't make any sense at all. Aren't lives lost now a tragic lesson in city planning?



[edit on 1-9-2005 by Aelita]

New Orleans is one of the oldest cities in the US, having been founded in 1718. It's location made to be an oceanic port that could easily transport goods inland, via the mighty Mississippi River. I don't think they even had the means by which to gauge land altitude at the time. Because of its strategic location, being an international bridge to the midwest before manned flight was even a twinkle in someone's eye (besides DaVinci), and grew as a result. Flooding has always been a problem there, hence the above ground tombs unique to the city. Modern city planning didn't really come about until the late 18th century, due to the sudden shift in city focus during the Industrial Revolution from agricultural to industrial.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
what I don't understand is that on Saturday we all knew a Category 5 was going to hit somewhere in the Gulf coast, we all know what the devastation from a Category 5 would look like, why wasn't all the help and mobilized ahead of time?

There was the mayor of NO on CNN this morning (I think, or some other high ranking official) and he was asked a direct question of the same sort... He basically deflected it, saying something alont he lines of "we had a plan, but there was some discontinuity in the thought process". Honestly, I felt that sounded a little lame, given the gravity of the situation.

I think a bunch of people really dropped the ball in this one. I also sure as heck don't feel safe thinking of terrorist threats, given the now apparent inadequacy of the agencies that were supposed to help.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
what I don't understand is that on Saturday we all knew a Category 5 was going to hit somewhere in the Gulf coast, we all know what the devastation from a Category 5 would look like, why wasn't all the help and mobilized ahead of time? No one should be surprised by the devastion, the NHC was predicting even worse...the government should have been more proactive in this situation. They warn us citizens to prepare for hurricanes, why the hell weren't they prepared for the aftermath?

[edit on 9-1-2005 by worldwatcher]

Help was mobilized, but it couldn't be in the city or the wake of the hurricane. Now, with all the destruction in the city, it is difficult to get transportation besides helicopters into the city. The other concern is people actually being able to get to where the help is. Even where there's not flooding, there is no gas, so people can't drive there (more in Mississippi). On top of all that, the streets have become increasingly dangerous. Some supply trucks are being held up and looted by criminals who want all they can get without sharing what's there. It's just bad news out there, but at least one charity organization (I don't recall the name, something-kids) had many trucks mobilized and prepared to get into the city in the wake of the hurricane, but cannot due to the road conditions. Some are getting through, but not nearly as many as they would like.

We as a nation could have done more.. and can do more for these people.

Pardon me.. I am very pissed.

This is sad.. beyond words.. and shameful.

I don't you think you follow me JJ, history shows us what a Cat 5 hurricane could do, we have Andrew and Miami in recent memory. Every aspect of Government knew what a Category 5 was capable of doing and even though Katrina hit as a Cat 4, they had all the info ahead of time to know how bad this was going to be. Why wasn't the Navy sitting off the shores of Florida on Monday waiting to go in? What did they think Katrina would do? suddenly dissapate or something? I don't care where Katrina hit, the all aspects of this government should have and was fully aware of the what the aftermath would be like and they failed. They are the ones to be blamed for what you see happening now.

I passed the warning on Saturday, hours after I regained electricity from Katrina's passover.
Target New Orleans, But Entire Gulf Coast Beware How can I be more informed that Federal and local governments?

[edit on 9-1-2005 by worldwatcher]

WW, I don't know much right now about government efforts; it really seems like the ball was dropped on their end in that respect. However, charities were very well prepared for this, having fleets of trucks standing by waiting to do whatever they could to help. They knew water and food would be primary needs, and had much on standby. My comments were more in reference to the individual American people and charities, not so much the government. I'm still waiting to see if any politicians actually rise to the occasion and mobilize an incredible effort both for moral and for helping those people. So far, I haven't seen it It's just been the blame game; politics as usual (on both sides).

You know, the blame game is all fine and good, and there will be some major political fall out after the mud settles. Right now, though, instead of trying to figure out who did what wrong, shouldn't we be trying to figure out how to correct the situation?

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
We as a nation could have done more.. and can do more for these people.

Pardon me.. I am very pissed.

This is sad.. beyond words.. and shameful.

Exactly my sentiments, and if someone had told me a month ago I would ever being saying this I would have laughed. WW is right, why weren't they waiting off the coast of Florida?

Better yet, why weren't the buses there before the storm hit? Most of the people who didn't get out couldn't. You are told to leave and no one tells you how, if you don't have a car, if you don't have a full tank of gas, if you are feeble or have a medical condition which doesn't allow you to just up and run.

No, this is not America's finest hour and it's breaking my heart. I hope at least that everyone in the world acknowledges right now, that whatever the cause (natural or man made), if you leave a massive swarm of people trapped for ONLY three days, with no food, water, sanitary facilities or hope, plain and simple - society WILL break down. This is not a reflection of NO, it's a reflection of humanity. I am sure right now there are more good people trapped in NO than bad, but they can't hold it together or stop the chaos under these circumstances. I only hope this is the greatest national disastor I ever witness, but I no longer feel confident at all about that.

This is lifted off another message board, written by a resident just NW of NOLA:

This is the situation as I know it. I have multiple friends and family members that have gone in to help including a good friend who's out on one of our parish boats (sheriff's officer.) Two different vehicles broke down on him on his way to N.O. but he finally made it there Tuesday morning. I'm not saying everyone had all these problems but think about all the normal little things that go wrong every day and multiply it by 1 million. The fact that they've rescued as many as they have is quite heartening for me. I imagined much much worse once the reports started coming in.

Communication is very scarce, in some cases zilch, I have not heard from some in days and these are rescue volunteers NOT hurricane victims. They are trying to get EVERYONE out of N.O. Some are refusing to go, some are so desperate to get out of the hell hole that they are becoming violent when buses/boats try to leave, transportation out is OVERLOADED so they aren't bothering with those refusing. There are only a few ways out of the city, as I understand it, over the Huey P. Long Bridge(east bank) by boat (which in some cases that is hard to do) and by air (only a few at a time fit in a helicopter.)

Mixed news is being be reported please don't believe EVERYTHING you hear, CNN is taking the same footage I'm watching locally and manipulating it. They're messing up the names of places and putting slants on things that if you just watch the raw footage you'll see that it's not true.

There HAVE been supplies brought in but they are gone as soon as they reach the drop point, in a matter of minutes. The amount of effort needed is beyond huge. In some areas there is no place to drop, even the shelters are now innundated with water, so they are also busy shuffling those people to higher ground to get out of immediate danger. Shelters that were at one point safe, are no longer. Priorities are constantly shifting and the resources are spread thin. Things are being done but unless you've been to the city and seen the water yourself it's hard to imagine WHY they can't get in and WHY it's taking so long. It's not like a lake with even water depths, manuevering is tricky, and even people who KNOW the area are having problems due to down trees and powerlines under the water.

As for accepting help...I'm sure if Govenor Blanco has been told about it, they HAVE not refused it. Every announcement (and she's done an excellent job of trying to keep the public informed) has thanked the help and pleaded for more.

Maybe they could've had boats closer but as large as Katrina was they could not have entered the Gulf and there was also another depression that could've skirted the Atlantic coast or followed Katrina or...it's just too unpredictable. There is the threat of more and still is...Lily hit exactly a week after Isadore and popped up in the lower portion of the Gulf.


I just deleted this section of my post because I was too high on my soap box but I will say this...please do not judge, people are doing the best they can, Many are existing on very little sleep and some rescuers with their own personal medical conditions. I have a diabetic friend who I'm worried about, my husband is also diabetic so I understand these dangers...my husband also wanted to go but is needed here (Insurance.) I'm sure he'll be out there eventually once it's safe to do so, right now he's too busy at the office answering questions from evacuees.

Rumors are flowing about things that are not happening such as people refusing to help. Tempers are flaring because of the housing situation (you try living in one of those shelters and see if you don't get upset with your own family much less a stranger) It's melting hot, supplies are spread thin, comfort does not exist, survival only. I have gone thru a very similar situation more than once but at least we didn't have to deal with the water. Things will get better, Life will be lost in the process, and this will effect many (including volunteers) for YEARS UPON YEARS to come.

i heard a cnn report that said that the dykes were getting upgrades till bush cut the funding.

now bush makes everyone wait 2 days or more if you think about the prep work that could have been done.

i know im no bush fan, but i doubt he has many in that part of the country right now

please lets not get into the blaming game in this thread. otherwise this will just degenerate into a political thread.lets keep the "hindsight" posts until this nightmare is over.

When the word to evacuate NO was passed, the authorities assummed that most of the people would leave. When the evac centers started filling up, the city officials opened the superdome and stressed that it was a last resort center. I could tell that city officials were overwhelmmed with the number of people reporting to the superdome.

Citizens were told to bring food, water and supplies enough to last three days. Some did and some didn't. Some were robbed in the superdome when the lights went out. The supplies ran out quickly.

When the rescued survivors started showing up, the city was even more overwhelmmed. No one expected that this many people would actually stay in the city. While all of NO's resources were being utilized to rescue the stranded, anarchy broke out in the city. Then when it could not get worse, it did. The leevies broke and more water rushed in.

NO was undermanned, underexperienced and overwhelmmed. There obviously was no contingency plan. But that is the attitude of the Big Easy. Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. NO has a very low cop to citizen ratio. It also has a very high population for such a small area. 30% of this population live below the poverty line.

I will not play Monday morning quarterback and say what should have happened. I will say what I said when I found out that they were evacuationg to the superbowl. I felt that city officials should have utilized every resource they had to get people out of NO. The idea of evac centers in NO was IMO a horrible idea.

I don't know why it took so long for federal aid to get to NO, other than the fact that until I-10 west of NO could be checked for structural integrity, there was no sense driving on it. The only way in was by air or I-10 from west of NO.

I'm sure that once the shock wears off, many people are going to be scrambling to cover their butts. But right now all we can do is speculate.

[edit on 9/1/2005 by darkelf]

Some good news, akin to what happened after Rodney King. The governer of New Orleans said today that they were keeping records of all tapes showing looting, and every single person whose face appeared on one of those videos would be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Quite frankly, I think the cops should be given a shoot to kill order. If they see someone coming out of any store with anything but food and water, like TVs, sneakers, that kind of thing, they should just shoot them. The food and water should be addressed in such a manner where the person is taken into custody and their information taken down, then allowed to leave. There are many families in desperate need of those supplies. But how badly does your family need a TV to survive? Blast 'em, and I'll bet the looting stops pretty darn quickly. After all, these SOBs have TVs to see the footage of a fellow looter getting popped for adding to the anarchy.

Any anyone caught shooting at a rescue chopper should get a LAW up the patookus.

The link below has current high resolution satelitte images of New Orleans.

I must warn you that one of the files is 192megs.. so I'd advise against downloading it if you're on dailup.. but if you have dailup, I highly advise downloading it.. it's amazing..


Unfortunaltly, the image doesnt show much south of the Mississippi river, so I cant get a fix on Mizar's location.. but, for the area that is does show.. there doesnt seem to be any flooding..


Satelitte Images (Incoming)



And from the looks of it, it seems they're making progress plugging up the canal..




I take that back.. it may be debris

[edit on 9/2/2005 by QuietSoul]