what happens when or if aliens visit and they want to live here?

For whatever the reason. Do we take them with open arms? keep track of them? let them roam free? take a vote after the initial visit riots, lol. I mean this of course would only apply if they were friendly and can live in our environment blah blah, u know what i mean. i know that there are thousands of different scenarios that can play out. I can go on and on about all the political problems alone that can be created.

Originally posted by whos_out_there
what happens when or if aliens visit and they want to live here?

What happens to any society when a vastly higher tech society decides it wants to live where they did?

Ask the Native Americans

I think that we would only let a certain amount live here at first, and keep an eye on them, thats of course asuming the world did'nt go through a huge change learning that other life exists out there.

That's assuming they're warlike like humanity, and they don't know what humanity is capable of. I suspect we'd nuke ourselves before giving up our planet. Just look at, for instance, WWII, but most all human wars. It was "civil" when it began, but as the effort became more and more desperate, harsher and crueler means were employed. Only military targets were attacked at first (except by Germany, but that was mostly internal). Then the germans bombed London, and a new phase of the war began -- indiscriminate city bombing. By the end, the allies firebombed Dresden, and the US began a firebombing campaign in Japan whose death toll of civilians far eclipsed the total deaths from then to today from the two A-Bombs.

So these folks would have to come here and not realize that, if they attacked or invaded, we would rather destroy ourselves than give in to them.

I actually think that one Star Gate SG1 episode nailed how a successful alien invasion would go down. They'd come with open arms, bringing us some technologies saving lives, feeding all of our population or something. We would come to trust them and depend on them for this technology. While they're helping us out, they would also be killing our ability to reproduce, be it through some technology or chemical secretly added to something they're helping us with. Say a mass desalinization technology that also adds something that, very gradually, takes away people's ability to have children. So in the end, we would just die out and the aliens would have our planet, never having fired a single shot.

Does anyone remember that old sci-fi show 'Alien Nation'? For those who don't, the premise was that a ship of alien refugees lands near Los Angeles and a large population of aliens seeks asylum on Earth. I think that the only way aliens would want to peacefully live on Earth would be if they were refugees - maybe their planet exploded or has become uninhabitable, or they have lost a war and are about to be wiped out or something. I can't see any other reason why they would need to live here. Of course, if they are hostile, they could just take what they wanted.

I am sure that there are many nations on Earth who would grant refuge to alien refugees, in exchange for advanced technology and information, of course. We would also have to impose strict conditions on the aliens:

* they would have to live in isolation facilities and submit to close-quarters monitoring for as long as we deemed necessary. The purpose of this would be to isolate any potential diseases or bacteria or other nasties the aliens may have brought with them. It would also prevent direct contact with the human population, giving us time to study their psychology, beliefs, ideologies, politics, science and history to best determine what impact these things might have on the general populace, both in terms of negative influence and positive influence.

* they would turn over all forms of advanced technology and assist human scientists in understanding and recreating it for our own use. This would be especially pertinent if the aliens were refugees from a war and were fleeing aggressors who might follow them to Earth.

* they would be forbidden to ever create any type of weapon, defensive or otherwise. Their defence would be the responsibility of the governments that gave them sanctuary. They are forbidden from possessing any form of weapon whatsoever.

* they would be forbidden from ever entering into any type of conflict with any human agency, legitimate or otherwise.

I doubt that any aliens who sought to live on Earth would be allowed to integrate into the community (as they were on Alien Nation). The risks are just too great, at least at our present level of understanding. What do other people think?

[edit on 23/8/05 by Jeremiah25]

Originally posted by junglejake

I actually think that one Star Gate SG1 episode nailed how a successful alien invasion would go down. They'd come with open arms, bringing us some technologies saving lives, feeding all of our population or something. We would come to trust them and depend on them for this technology. While they're helping us out, they would also be killing our ability to reproduce, be it through some technology or chemical secretly added to something they're helping us with. Say a mass desalinization technology that also adds something that, very gradually, takes away people's ability to have children. So in the end, we would just die out and the aliens would have our planet, never having fired a single shot.

Or they would just spray for us like bugs. Release some microbes into the atmosphere that are lethal to us and harmless to everything else. Like the smallpox blankets but on a much grander scale. Take the whole planet intact without firing a shot. Do we bargain with cattle?

If they weren't as bloodthirsty as us they would be scared to death of us and probably stay away or try to keep us contained.

Chances are, if they weren't as bloodthirsty as us, they would be terrified of what we could become and try to wipe us out. However, we have no basis by which to judge development of intelligent species; it could be that every species goes through the phase that we do. After all, they had to become the dominant species somehow. If you look to anthropology, it is believe that Cromagnan man and Neandrathals (I think I blew the spelling on both of them...) lived at the same time as different species, but while the Neans were peaceful, cromagnan were war-like and decimated the Nean's population.

Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by whos_out_there
what happens when or if aliens visit and they want to live here?

What happens to any society when a vastly higher tech society decides it wants to live where they did?

Ask the Native Americans

I believe most of the natives in the Americas were quite willing to share the wealth (so to speak) as their sense of ownership differed from ours in that they don't believe people should own land, animals, anything really. They advocated using and living on the land in a respectable manner.

But we didn't give them the option of sharing. Instead we slaughtered their people in horrible ways and then spread rumours about their evil 'red man' ways when they fought back. In essence we stole, betrayed their trust, raped/pillaged and then maligned their name, calling them ignorant savages.

Some tribes also had their neocon version of warriors and some were highly opposed to sharing, but you have these warmongers in every society. Note, I am not starting a flame war here, I am saying the natives also had their 'we should not share our wealth; this is ours' people as well.

Would it be poetic justice to believe that now the (cliche alert) shoe is on the other foot and we can 'hope' that the aliens want to share with us and not destroy us and take our lands?

I think it is indicative of how much progess we have made when we look at our society and we still advocate war and killing to get what we want. I would be very interested to see what any aliens would think of us.

I would be very interested to see what any aliens would think of us.

I completely understand your point of view, but my personal opinion is: "Who cares what they think about us?" The slaughter of indigenous peoples by colonisers is truly a dark page in human history. In my own country, Australia, the Aboriginal people suffered as the Native Americans did. In no way am I advocating such actions or professing them to be in any way justifiable or right. But they were human actions - one group of humans warring or killing another group of humans. These are issues that we still face today. They are intimate human details and are not the province of any creature that is not from this planet.

Simply put, it is not for aliens to judge us or decry our behaviour towards one another as wrong. It is simply none of their business. I also hold to the belief that human life has never been so valued as it is in our present time. Yes, terrible things happen and terrible people exist, but such has always been the case. Now, at least, people are beginning to not accept these things as freely. Now, we debate the validity of wars which kill innocent civilians, where in the past civilians were brutally murdered, raped and taken as slaves as a matter of course. These things still happen, but not to the same extent and they are no longer justifiable.

The point of this little rant is, I suppose, to argue my point that Earth is our planet. We don't own it by any means, but it is our home. If any other race wishes to share it, they do so by our rules or they try and take it from us by force. Hmm, this post seems a little xenophobic now that I look at it, but it is my personal opinion. What do you guys think?

[edit on 23/8/05 by Jeremiah25]

Some good points J25.

Being Native to a planet or piece of dirt does not make you the owner of it in my books.
I think the line has to be drawn however when you are talking about introducing a new species - for many reasons as stated above.
That is why it is imperative that mutual ground has to be identified and respected. This is an area where man has failed in time & time again.
I sense that we'll fail this again should this scenario play out.

With the above scenario in mind, it would be a gesture of peace should the aliens play by 'our' rules.

For a number of reasons but mainly its the only way today we / Joe Human could perceive / prove that they are intelligent and peaceful race. Even then, people will still doubt it......... why shouldn't they?
I mean anything that is different and wants to play in our yard is always going to be treated with suspicion - its a human trait.
Anyway,
However to keep and maintain their (the aliens) heritage we'd have to be flexible to don't you think.? As history has shown us many times now - no one likes to lose their heritage. We'd would have help these beings restore normality (if that exists) to there lives and assist them in co existance areas.

So when does the whole ownership side of the conversation becomes null and void? How many generation of aliens will it take for the human race to accept this new introduced species as an Earth Being?

Would them telling us we were 'seeded' many 100K's years ago change the way we percieve "our" planet?


Our koori population faces this struggle everyday however, the problem was no mutual ground or respect was ever shown by the European, back then it was about finding new land and settlement, today its about value add.

Lets hope they don't take that approach with us, because really we won't stand a chance.

Jeremiah

Good post and intelligent way of arguing, although I don't quite agree with what you say I have nothing against how you say it.

I didn't mean that they would come to judge us as that is not their right. But I think the 'who cares what they think' is very relevant today. Look how many postings we have on UFOs and ETs. We very much do care!

The topic is if aliens 'visit' or 'want to live' here - I just don't get the impression that we can say NO to them without some massive deaths if not the complete wipe-out of mankind. Then again, we may not even have that option. They may just decide we are useless to them and irrelevant and no fighting will take place.

Or they may want to help us? You know, the way we 'helped' so many non-believers and non-democrats in so many countries. I'm being ironic here but it is true. We are SO self-righteous thinking we know what is good for people.

Bottom line - I think our inability to look behind the 'own it' mentality will be our failing. We need to own or feel we do - everything. That is part of the reason the planet is going to hell. If no one comes along to take it away or to want to share it, it will be destroyed soon anyway. Like a careless kid with a toy he doesn't appreciate until someone else does. Why are we searching for life on other planets? Colonisation. We want to go and mess up more planets because we've left this one looking like a dorm room after a frat party.

Are we better people because of it? Are we wiser and more compassionate because we are calculating how many people we can wipe off the face of the earth so the elite, the powers that be, and ordinary abiding citizens can have more resources, more money, more space?

I don't think you sound xenophobic. I think you make some valid points. But I don't agree that fighting aliens, if they want to take over, will be the way to go. But as I said before, if that is the case will we even be given the option to fight? Or will it just be taken from us? I'm not advocating the handing over of earth - maybe some middle ground in between.

Also as lovely as it would be to believe we humans are more caring now than we ever have been I sadly, sadly disagree. I think we are just more aware. And maybe it is like pathos - like that awareness you get when you realise you have made a grave mistake and it is too late to turn back.

I personally believe that if they exist they are waiting for us to better ourselves. Maybe watching to see if we do it at all even... maybe they have started a pool with their friends - some are rooting for us, some are anticipating our downfall.

And why should we care about what they think? Because apathy is the last resort of the jaded. Even if we can do nothing about it, it is worth discussing because any little change we make for the better is always positive. Otherwise, what is the point of being here?

How many generation of aliens will it take for the human race to accept this new introduced species as an Earth Being?

I used to teach social and environemental studies at high school here in Oz. I was starting a new topic and used the metaphor of alien invasion. I asked the students to consider the following scenario:

Imagine that aliens land in Sydney. They don't say anything and make no overtly hostile gestures for now. How do you think we should proceed - Do you think we should attack them or wait and see what they wanted? (Most students voted for the latter, to wait and see if they could determine the alien's motives). How would you feel concerning such an event? (Most responded that they would feel excited, scared, nervous, apprehensive, eager or thrilled).

Then I moved the scenario forward in time 200 years, to the year 2203. The aliens, it turns out, were hostile and they annihiliated our militaries and conquered the world. They keep humans around because certain factions of the alien race think it is wrong to wipe us all out in a genocidal campaign. Humans, however, are definitely viewed as inferior creatures and are given only the most menial of tasks to perform. Then I asked the students what their reactions would be to such an event (Most said that they would want to fight the aliens). I asked them how they would fight if our armies were destroyed (They said that you would have to be sneaky and use guerilla warfare tactics). Then I asked them "How many generations would it take before the aliens could rightly lay claim to the Earth and say that the planet was now theirs?" (Every student answered that there was no time long enough - the planet would never be theirs!) Then I wrote on the board "European Colonisation of Australia" and the point I was trying to make hit them like a ton of bricks.

However to keep and maintain their (the aliens) heritage we'd have to be flexible to don't you think.?

Absolutely. Most of the things I outlined were initial, first-reaction measures designed to preserve not only law and order, but the aliens themselves. I think we would face an effort to counter-balance people's natural fear of the unknown and distrust of outsiders with the notion that we are dealing with clearly intelligent, reasoning and sentient creatures. Many of the steps I outlined were an effort to do just this. Certainly they should not all be permanent. If aliens come to us in the spirit of goodwill, with a genuine desire to live in peace and tolerance, then by all means we should attempt to accomodate them and assist them as best we can. I also think that we would do this, albeit in a cautious manner. If they come to us in a spirit of hostility, well, I guess at least we won't have to worry about it for very long.

And why should we care about what they think? Because apathy is the last resort of the jaded.

I agree. When I stated "Who cares what they think" I was using it as an example of their lack of a right to intervene in human affairs. I did not mean to imply that we should not be concerned with them at all.

You both make excellent points. Here's hoping that, if the scenario ever eventuates, we might have people such as yourselves present in positions of power, to react with a balance of temperance and wisdom.

[edit on 23/8/05 by Jeremiah25]

Interesting discussion so far.

So much would depend on the actual circumstances, and the numbers involved in any sort of event. If they have a choice, or the numbers can be controled then the people of Earth would have time to take it slow. If we got a large number of beings in a short time we would have to more basic human-style refugee support. I can see Countries making different 'offers' to the new arrivals.

Living people are people, no matter what they look like, or where they came from. What our new visitors thought of us and what we do would sometimes be profound, and the reverse would be likely true as well.

I would have fairly high hopes for Humanity after this sort of event. In no small measure to the fact that along with what is being discussed comes the knowledge that we can indeed begin to travel the Stars. So while many will be helping the new arrivals to make a home here, others will begin to look up and outward.


A.T
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