SRA: Real or Fake?

Originally posted by suzy ryan
Thanks Golfie, I hope readers will look up that thread and read all the posts in context. I made a point of not singling out masons and did not say it was I being villified but posters who saw things differently to the "ALL MASONS ARE ALL GOOD" camp. Straight up, square and true, I give masons alot of "outs" but they, like Sebatwerk who said he would ignor me, can't help but bash anyone they see as not four square in their camp. Either that or they don't want things like SRA being discussed on this site and so they hijack the topic to the, "oh we poor missunderstood masons" or "how dare anyone imply all masons arn't all good" whine so they can keep bashing any they perceive as anti mason, thinking it will help their image. I mention masonry in reponse to offensive comments made by masons. But I'm sure you or you ilk will dig up another thread to quote out of context. Can't let this topic run can you and I have to wonder why.....

Ok, this needs to stop before it goes any further. Everyone just stick to facts and not get bogged down with all this other junk. Keep it productive.

The S in SRA stands for Satanic not Christian OR Masonic yet somehow this has turned into a Christian bashing,
True the name is "Satanic Ritual Abuse" yet to my knowledge there has been no conclusive evidence of
any Church of Satan involvement at any time. To use a phrase oft used by media and xtian writers most
who have been accused have been " self styled, or professed" Satan worshippers. Also to my knowledge
ALL those "professionals" supporting this theory are Fundamentalist yahoos of the ilk of Jack Chick, Tex Marr, and Jerry Falwell ( you remember him right, the teletubby guy and the one that decided that Snow White was a prostitute just because every time the dwarves saw her they said " HI Ho")

SRA IS REAL
provide concrete evidence for this statement. To my knowledge there has never been anything linked to
any Satanic Church Organization. And for all the "ritual sacrifices" claimed to have been witnessed , no remains have been located. ( the exception to this is the drug dealer in Mexico, a self styled follower of Palo
Maiombe sp?)

Here's a case won against Lawrence King, a politician from Nebraska.
This appears to be a Civil Judgement not a criminal verdict. In this country you can sue virtually anyone for anything in a civil court and have a better than 75% chance of winning. another example of this would be the OJ Simpson civil ruling.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
Here's a case won against Lawrence King, a politician from Nebraska.
This appears to be a Civil Judgement not a criminal verdict. In this country you can sue virtually anyone for anything in a civil court and have a better than 75% chance of winning. another example of this would be the OJ Simpson civil ruling.

Too right, we all know how O.J. was innocent. Take this into consideration, if there are people who are planning to do a sacrificial rituals regularly, would they not have a way to dispose of any remains?

Originally posted by Cattlest

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Do you have an example of a proven case of SRA? By proven, I mean documented, investigated, tried and convicted.

Here's a case won against Lawrence King, a politician from Nebraska.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Aw hey now...you know that this was a civil case, and only for punitive damages, and not for any criminal charge.

(frankly, whether he did or not isn't the point - but please, don't imply he was convicted of SRA. He was not)

matamoros, mexico? spelling is unsure.
there are many cases of satanic abuse, murder, arrest, and conviction.
i just don't feel like taking the time to do what you should do yourself, i am sure online engines will bring up what you seek.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
matamoros, mexico? spelling is unsure.
there are many cases of satanic abuse, murder, arrest, and conviction.
i just don't feel like taking the time to do what you should do yourself, i am sure online engines will bring up what you seek.

You don't feel like it...that's very, very telling, unfortunately.

Well, it's usually the responsibility of the claimant to provide supporting evidence to his claims. Since you're so sure, it'd be great if you could actually offer proof of these "many" arrests and convictions.

If you cannot, or will not, then your claims will generally be regarded as nothing more than rumour or hearsay.

You make the claim - you back it up. That's just the way it goes.

Are you perchance under the impression that nobody has researched this topic?

You are likely correct, I recalled a satanic cult that was from the town I named, as an offering of help. But, I don't want to sound certain of my memories of that and others.. so I will admit that you are right, and leave it at that. Sorry for unsupported attacks on Satanists, I hope their feelings were not hurt.
I am just not interested in spending one minute to see if the abuse is real, since abuse itself of any kind is real, and that is the important thing. I care not who the abusers are. They come from all faiths.... as we all know.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower

Originally posted by Cattlest

Originally posted by sebatwerk
Do you have an example of a proven case of SRA? By proven, I mean documented, investigated, tried and convicted.

Here's a case won against Lawrence King, a politician from Nebraska.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Aw hey now...you know that this was a civil case, and only for punitive damages, and not for any criminal charge.

(frankly, whether he did or not isn't the point - but please, don't imply he was convicted of SRA. He was not)

Whatever you say, I just wanted people to look into this more. I think anyone who hears Paul Bonnaci's full story will see he's telling the truth. That involves abusive and sacrificial rituals. Do you think Bonacci is lying? Maybe Caradori wanted career and literal suicide with his little hoax. In a hoax with Alicia Owen, who for not recanting allegations against the embezzeler is spending more time in jail than the embezzeler himself. Maybe DeCamp wanted to squander his own political future. Or maybe Larry King, the Nebraskan Politician convicted of embezzeling 40 millions dollars, really had a child trafficking organization serving many purposes. Among them ritualistic abuse according to Bonnaci's testimony. Just corroborated, polygraphed hearsay to some I guess.

[edit on 29-8-2005 by Cattlest]

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
You are likely correct, I recalled a satanic cult that was from the town I named, as an offering of help.

I remember this case; I read a book about it called "Hell Ranch". This particular cult practiced a voodoo-type religion called Palo Mayombe, which originated in the jungles of the Congo. They believed that a magic cauldron gave them great powers, and the cult became extremely wealthy by selling "protection spells" to Mexican coc aine cartel families. To begin with, the cult would kidnap the enemies of its drug-dealing customers, sacrifice them, and then feed their organs to the cauldron. Eventually, they began killing people randomly, including non-drug-dealers. Most of the cult members were killed in a stand-off with Mexican police.

I do not deny that there are incidences of crazy people like this who hurt other people with the intent of gaining some sort of magical powers (the Palo Mayombe cult thought their hoodoo made them bullet-proof; they were surprised when they saw the Mexican cops rip up their fellow cult members with machine guns during the battle). But I do not believe that there's any secret underground movement, and all evidence points to the conclusion that these incidences are isolated in nature, and the people involved are complete kooks. And I most certainly deny any Masonic involvement in such things.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
You are likely correct, I recalled a satanic cult that was from the town I named, as an offering of help.

I remember this case; I read a book about it called "Hell Ranch". This particular cult practiced a voodoo-type religion called Palo Mayombe, which originated in the jungles of the Congo. They believed that a magic cauldron gave them great powers, and the cult became extremely wealthy by selling "protection spells" to Mexican coc aine cartel families. To begin with, the cult would kidnap the enemies of its drug-dealing customers, sacrifice them, and then feed their organs to the cauldron. Eventually, they began killing people randomly, including non-drug-dealers. Most of the cult members were killed in a stand-off with Mexican police.

There is a lot of this type of magic found in Africa. Although some of it is tribal, in other cases it ties up with the Christian religion -- but not Satanism. From what I've read (and from what I know talking to folks from Africa), they would not go in for any worship of the Devil... that's a very powerful taboo for them.

I do not deny that there are incidences of crazy people like this who hurt other people with the intent of gaining some sort of magical powers (the Palo Mayombe cult thought their hoodoo made them bullet-proof; they were surprised when they saw the Mexican cops rip up their fellow cult members with machine guns during the battle). But I do not believe that there's any secret underground movement, and all evidence points to the conclusion that these incidences are isolated in nature, and the people involved are complete kooks. And I most certainly deny any Masonic involvement in such things.

Exactly.

For those interested in hard research, FACTNET is the oldest (fairly non-biased) cult watching organization around. The founder was sued by the Scientologists, who lost the lawsuit.

Here's their section on child abuse and deaths within cults. Notice that a number of Christian cults are listed -- but no Satanist ones:
www.factnet.org...'s%20deaths%20associated%20with%20Cult%20+%20Sects

Here's a list of cult resources:
www.factnet.org...(CAN)

Academic group on this:
www.csj.org...

Cult Information Center:
www.cultinformation.org.uk...

As someone has pointed out, the only ones accusing the Masons of "ritual child abuse" are the ilk of Jack Chick -- who, themselves meet the test of "what is a cult." They never actually point to specific news stories (or haven't so far), they use the few cases by people who say they are Satanists to announce a worldwide conspiracy. Contrast this with the secular cultwatch pages, that name organizations and point to news stories.

BTW, the reader might be interested in the very large number of Christian cults that are implicated in child abuse.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
But I do not believe that there's any secret underground movement, and all evidence points to the conclusion that these incidences are isolated in nature, and the people involved are complete kooks. And I most certainly deny any Masonic involvement in such things.

All evidence?!?! Are you reading anything I post? Isolated in nature!?! The Paul Bonacci case is as far reaching as the S&L scandal and the Iran/Contra case. The connection is of course, money. The mechanics of our current society shows that illegal activity is extremely profitable. The worse the penalty, the higher the profit. People are looking at this from the wrong angle, looking for theological reasons for why these things would happen and seeing none, they are discarded from contemplation. The reasons behind these rituals will never be apparent if we only ask why and nothing else. The secret underground movement is child trafficking, the ritual abuse comes after that, perhaps from paying customers. The evidence is there, but you have to look at it.

Originally posted by Cattlest
. The secret underground movement is child trafficking, the ritual abuse comes after that, perhaps from paying customers. The evidence is there, but you have to look at it.

And that might be where the truth actually lies.

The secret underground movement is child trafficking.. Not SRA.

The two are absolutely not interchangeable, and I'm relieved that this distinction has been noted!

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
And that might be where the truth actually lies.

The secret underground movement is child trafficking.. Not SRA.

The two are absolutely not interchangeable, and I'm relieved that this distinction has been noted!

Perhaps this thread was doomed from the start because of the concentrated attention on the ritual aspect. I wanted people in this thread from previous discussion, but it now seems like it might've been better to approach it differently. I will probablly start a child trafficking thread in political conspiracies if one hasn't already been made. I'll still post in here, but it has been less productive than I had hoped for. Though I have learned a bit. I've learned topics like these will attract hysterical views, and much consideration of all things said is needed in such topics. I'm thinking better results will come from a better worded thread maybe.

"I recalled a satanic cult that was from the town I named,"
I was thinking of the Pals that killed the 7(as i recall) DEA agents



"I'll still post in here, but it has been less productive than I had hoped for."
Translation: not enough people jumped blindly on the band wagon.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
"I recalled a satanic cult that was from the town I named,"
I was thinking of the Pals that killed the 7(as i recall) DEA agents



"I'll still post in here, but it has been less productive than I had hoped for."
Translation: not enough people jumped blindly on the band wagon.

Ouch