SRA: Real or Fake?

This is a topic of interest of mine. Satanic Ritual Abuse, some say it's a product of False Memory Syndrome, other say it's real. The term Satanic Ritual Abuse is a misnomer, there may be some connection to Church of Satan, though I've yet to see something to suggest that. What it seems to me is more like a Magical Sacrificial Ritual: demon incantation. I'll link some videos, (one already in another thread) and await comments. I encourage both sides of this arguement to post.

Conspiracy of Silence

Satanism and the CIA

im watching the satanism video with the fbi guy right now. Guy is actually credible. I consider a lot of the stuff that he claims to be true, although some of is logic is a little bit flawed. Like when he misinterpret the crowley books on his slides.

the main topic of Satanism and CIA is the McMartin PreSchool case. This is very openly called a case of hysteria. The case is so well known Oliver Stone wrote a movie about it, Indictment. In the movie, the allegations are unfounded and innocent people are accused and lives are ruined, I'm guessing. I've never seen it, but I do know that is not a place to go to look for facts. So as credible as this guy is and as real as their emotions seem, it's been stamped fraud. Though, I'm not satisfied.

I just posted my belief, based on experiance, that it is real!, but it was too short so I'll add that it is hurtfull to survivers that so many people choose to ingor so much evidence. It is hurtful that some still cling to the 'false memoury' lie. How many people with no connection to each other have to tell of the same things happening to them before they are given any weight? I'm sure if I said I was abducted by aliens I wouldn't cop so much abuse from those who tout the false memoury lie. I haven't by the way but can see how many people would rather believe it was aliens than their fellow humans.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
I just posted my belief, based on experiance, that it is real!, but it was too short so I'll add that it is hurtfull to survivers that so many people choose to ingor so much evidence. It is hurtful that some still cling to the 'false memoury' lie. How many people with no connection to each other have to tell of the same things happening to them before they are given any weight? I'm sure if I said I was abducted by aliens I wouldn't cop so much abuse from those who tout the false memoury lie. I haven't by the way but can see how many people would rather believe it was aliens than their fellow humans.

Any insight you can give will be welcomed, but please try to be civil. This is a debate and the other sides point of view should listened to and not taken personally.Thank you

I wasn't taking anything personaly or responding to an indivdual but the issue of all SRA stories being written off as 'false memouries' and I was being civil. My point was that alien abduction is easier for some to deal with than accepting how evil some humans can be. Sorry if you read me as insulting those who claim to have been abducted by aliens. I just wish those who claim to have suffered SRA got as open a hearing.

No, you haven't done anything wrong. I just wanted to tell you that for now because I want skeptic people here. That's all.

O.K., got you. I too want as many skeptics as are on this site to view your links.

Originally posted by suzy ryan
I just posted my belief, based on experiance, that it is real!, but it was too short so I'll add that it is hurtfull to survivers that so many people choose to ingor so much evidence. It is hurtful that some still cling to the 'false memoury' lie. How many people with no connection to each other have to tell of the same things happening to them before they are given any weight? I'm sure if I said I was abducted by aliens I wouldn't cop so much abuse from those who tout the false memoury lie. I haven't by the way but can see how many people would rather believe it was aliens than their fellow humans.

I'm gonna have to say that I believed that SRA was possibly a reallity (Though for obvious reasons not perpetrated by Freemasons) until I read the information posted by Tinkleflower and the lack of credible evidence posted to support its existence.

I would expect the same evidence for alien abduction before I believe that either.

My feelings on the subject set aside, the 'FBI guy' you talk about is a little off. I have no doubt that he once was a G-Man but if you have ever taken a look at his discussions of SRA and other topics in the Disinformation DVD series, (oringally a program that aired like 2 episodes on UKs Channel 4 TV, and was supposed to be sold to the SciFi channel but they thought it was to far out there.) He is guilty of what alot of people accuse many so called experts in various fields on these boards like Icke etc. he makes WILD conjectures based on a single fact. I wouldn't put a whole lot of clout on what he says.

so called experts

EX: to have been
(s)pert: a drip under pressue

A has been drip under pressue: expert


lost in the midwest

This will probably be the only post I make on this thread, as the information has been posted on numerous threads already, mkay? I think this is as good a place as any though, to actually put together in one place my collected thoughts on the topic. I beg your indulgence, as this is going to be longwinded!


Wiki entry on SRA

APA page on abuse and memories

Science Daily's experiment

Christian Research's article, reprinted at rickross.com

On repressed memories and SRA

About "Michele Remembers"

McMartin trials

Religious Tolerance's page

More on repressed memories

Issues in researching False Memory Syndrome


Suggested Reading - no, really, these books are worth hunting down at your library:


Satanic Panic - Jeffrey Victor

In Pursuit Of Satan: Police And The Occult - Robert D Hicks

Satan's Silence - Debbie Nathan

The Myth Of Repressed Memory - Elizabeth Loftus

Jeopardy in the Courtroom: A Scientific Analysis of Children's Testimony - Stephen Ceci

Cognitive Neuropsychology of False Memories

UK Dept Of Health Report on Ritual Child Abuse


****************

Couple of things probably need to be clarified here.

1. Whilst this is not suggesting that there have never been abusers who are Masons, please understand that these are two different ideas; just as Joe Abuser might be a Christian, his actions are not representative of the religion, and just as he might also be an upstanding member of his Church Choir, this in no way means that the Choir is involved in a pedophile ring.

2. Nobody here has been able to support the notion that SRA actually exists - but this is absolutely not suggesting that child sex abuse does not exist.

3. Furthermore, nobody has been able to offer any evidence that if it exists, it's being committed by Freemasonry either as a group, or as part of a further conspiracy.

4. As I've stated before, my objections are less about Freemasonry than they are about unsubstantiated allegations of a phenomena that doesn't exist.

My experience

My own investigation has been conducted over two continents, over a period spanning more than 10 years. My own investigations involved two children who were involved in the Cleveland Child Abuse scandal in England, and one who was involved in a similar alleged Satanic Abuse case in England (this was direct contact with all three children; as a result I was able to obtain access to the testimonies of other children involved). My conclusions are that though abuse exists, and is tragic, and absolutely needs to be stopped, there is simply no evidence that this abuse involves Satanic groups, cults, or Masonic orders.

When the children in question first made the allegations, they had been "coached", by two social workers in particular. The questions asked of the children involved some dubious techniques, involving leads such as "Did Mrs X ever touch you anywhere bad?". Leading questions such as this are absolutely not considered valid, ethical or even "ok", by psychiatrists, psychologists and police departments. I do hope you can see why this is the case.

After the investigations were completed, the children were questioned in a much more ambiguous manner, using questions such as:

"When you were at Mrs X's house, tell us what happened after you had dinner". In other words, answers were solicited using a much more objective technique, allowing the children to use their own words to describe what happened, instead of trying to appease the questioner by answering what they thought was the right answer. In summary, the children either recanted through simple voluntary admittals that "well, it wasn't really like that...." and similar answers, or they admitted that though some abuse happened, it was by two male relatives. No Satanism, and no occult or ritualistic elements.

Please, understand that this does not mean no abuse has taken place. That's not - and never has been - in dispute. However, we must bear in mind these points, too:

1. Children do actually lie at times - yes, even about abuse. In the past it's been repeatedly shown that an overzealous investigator and/or therapist can ask a leading question to a child who will then answer "yes", because that's what s/he thinks the investigator wants to hear. It's less about truth in these cases than it is about lousy investigative methods. And this doesn't just apply to abuse, it applies across the board in psychology and psychiatry, and indeed across the entire judicial arena. It's painfully easy to verify independently, unless of course it's all part of a much larger conspiracy which would involve adults too, as they're often "led" into similar statements.

2. Children who have been abused don't have to be lying about what happened to be confused or misled into saying who did it and/or under what circumstances.

Thanks for reading.

I know for a fact that sacrificial killing occurs. After witnessing something I wish I hadn't seen, I talked to people who had first-hand knowledge of it, and it is pretty bad.

I'm sure it does, Thomas (I've researched enough to know that sacrifices are made, though in all honesty it's questionable where there's any real religious connotation therein, or whether these cases are simply twisted individuals using religion - whether it's Satanism, Christianity, whatever - as an excuse).

But that's not the same as SRA, or indeed, any controlled/organised circle of either ritual sacrifice or ritual abuse.

You have voted Tinkleflower for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

great post!

Thomas Crowne: could you tell us more?

this is a letter I sent to Tinkleflower concerning Paul Bonnaci's winning court case against Lawrence "Larry" King. I'm presenting it here because this is something I wanted addressed by everyone here. Here is a website concerning the court case, it's at the bottom of that page. www.raven1.net...

from: Cattlest
sent: 18-8-2005 at 07:30 PM
quote: Thanks for that info.

Originally posted by tinkleflower
I'm seeing two things here.

The first being that King was never charged with anything, and the second being that the victim was awarded a default judgement.

To be fair to all sides here, King has never been charged or convicted of anything relating to sex abuse, correct?

I just need to clarify those before going further, k?

That is completely fair. Though some things should be taken into consideration. One of the main things that fell through on allegations of Larry King would be the recant of Troy Boner. Troy Boner had talked to Gary Caradori which corroborated with the allegations of Alicia Owen and Paul Bonnacci. Troy went back to his original story later and said he was pressured into changing his story, but the court just put him as an unreliable witness after that. Gary Caradori, died while in pursuit of this case. There are many angles to look at this because the people who were accused were in high positions,people in government such as Lawrence King. Police: Officer Wadman, Media:Harold Anderson.

You like to bring up McMartin too. One of the children's memories, if you will, was that there was a tunnel underground. Not only that, but there was an entrance to a garage next door. I'm sure you know about the tunnel and the reasons for it being there and the excuses for why it wasn't searched earlier. Did you know in the tunnel they found an entrance to the garage next door? It could be just coincidence...

Originally posted by Cug

You have voted Tinkleflower for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

great post!

Thomas Crowne: could you tell us more?

About the specifics of my close encounter? No, sorry.
AS far as what the escaped Satanists have told me? Sure. Human sacrifices, ritual abuse, all of this is definitley real. The people who I have talked to are afraid, even though they have left the area where they were members. They say that the network is not only nationwide but worldwide and they feel under constant threat of death. Now, I don't know if that is paranoia talking or what, but those who were in but are now our would have a better clue.

From the evidence at hand, which is none, I'd have to say "fake".

Originally posted by Masonic Light
From the evidence at hand, which is none, I'd have to say "fake".

The point of this thread is to get people to look into subject and make a decision. The fact you say there is no evidence either means you didn't look at the information I laid out or you mean there is no proof. For example, children in the McMartin PreSchool case claimed there was tunnels underground. To which after alot of stalling was found that there actually was tunnels underground, though they were filled in. I would say that is evidence, though I wouldn't go as far as to say it's proof.

There is evidence and proof but the stories get quickly buried. Remember the ,"Torso in the Themes" story of the torso found floating in the Themes, the boy theycalled Adam. The woman that warned police of what went on was accused of 'rambling' which happens to most people who try explain unbelievable horrors.