Underground Hip-Hop Exposing The Government

@ these conscious rappers doing it for the paycheck. yes some money is involved as people do need money to survive and that's the bottom line. some people are good at politics(liars), some people are good with art this is just another outlet of self-expression. don't try to shrewd it down that it all comes down to money for artists, who instead of signing on to a major record company and compromising their own beliefs, they go their own route to be able to put a message out.

it's extremely hard to get to the youth, music and television are the 2 most influential outlets to get to kids these days (sorry parent's, you lost) and these hand-full of artists who try to inform and awaken the youth get a standing O from me. quite frankly, they reach more people then any poster on this message board reaches so i don't understand the ignorance.

how is music not a form of informing people? you have to be very naive to say it's not.

Originally posted by Odium
how are they trying to make money?

They don't sell the albums?

Where there is a market, there will be people trying to supply it. Conspiracy is big today. It only makes sense that hip hop will expand into that market.

Movies, books, etc, can take much longer - years in fact.

If someone tries to tell you that something is true because they heard it in a rap song, they have no credibility, regardless of whether or not its true. Its like citing the Davinci Code to back up a theological point, or Spider-man to cite the dangers of radiation and pests.

RAtM they were an "Anti-Capitalist" band, yet half the stuff you claim is bollocks.

They're clearly pro-socialist/communist.

ve spoken out against Chinese Imperialism, as they did the U.S.S.R. and America.

They spoke out against property being taken away from people in Mexico and the loss of property.

Only because the people that lost property there were the downtrodden, it has nothing to do with intrinsic property rights.

Zack himself being a fan of the Swiss Governmental system and the European (Sweden) model of Socialism. But it's O.K. we'll just go by the media criticism and not what he actually has said on the DVDs?

We're talking about the songs, not documentaries, publications, or anything.

As for RAtM making money - yes they did. Zack also put money into court cases for Civil Rights Groups, as well as many other investigatons into Police Corruption, when he was asked. Paying out of his own pocket.

How generous. A rock star getting behind some political causes. He's a regular Bono.

As for them talking about over-throwing the Government so what?

Its illegal.

War of Independence?

He's talking about overthrowing that which was established after the war of independence.

And by terms like "Take the Power Back" they mean for the people to once again have their say in things.

They do.

He is talking about the buildings going up in price, to the point where they can no longer afford to live there or pay the rent or buy into the area.

And other people that do live in the gentrified areas are able to make more money by working in that area once its gentrified. Gentrification obviously results in lots of people having to leave. So what. Bad stuff happens sometimes.

Forcing the out of the area and then into smaller ghetto's, it was common place in London during the the last 30years.[/quiote]
Gentrification is the process by which ghettos are eliminated. By definition. A ghetto gets gentrified and is no longer a ghetto, and it doesn't result in more ghettos popping up elsewhere. Lots of Upper manhattan had a lot of scummy ghettos, luckily gentrification started happening in lots of parts of it and its a hell of a lot better than in the past.

Instead of bothering to solve the problem.

Gentrification is solving the problem.

Unless you are going to argue that Noam Chomsky is uneducated?

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to what this thread is about. Its not about Chompsky.

And they actually bother to give book lists, inside their album's.

The books are what expose the problems and conspiracy, not the song.

And the point about Police shooting the child, is a good one. If I remember (album cover isn't here) it was an 13year old killed the cop shot in the back and later on a gun was planted.

Bad stuff happens sometimes.

I'll get you the list of books and magazine's Paris is also involved in.

I'm really not intersted in it, I have my own book lists.

People have to start somewhere and if they have musical talent then why not there?

A rap song does not expose anything. A rap song is a song, nothing more.

Conspicuouz
it's extremely hard to get to the youth, music and television are the 2 most influential outlets to get to kids these days

People who receive their education primarily from television and music simply are not going to be listened to.

so your saying music, in any form, won't influence someone to pick up a book and understand what these artist are talking about to get a better knowledge of what they are listening to?

if not a book, get online and try to obtain some more knowledge on a subject matter as we do on this site?

not trying to put any fonts on your fingers, but let me know if this is a valid assumption.

Nygdan, they also give the albums away for free. In reality it's like a book author, do you dis-credit them because they make money?

The fact is, they are not making millions off of it. Paris, and several others earn their money from producing other groups.

Also Paris' first album came out prior to the first Bush administration being in office, so it's not like he or many of the others are jumping on the wagon and attempting to get rich off of it.

As for RAtM in the last DVD (I think it is) Zack actually points to pre-ferring the Swiss System of Government over Socialism, etc. You can be anti-capitalist/point out the problems with a system and still like other parts of it. Also they spoke out against the loss of property rights - like it or not.

And it's illegal to say you want the people to have power? Lovely Nation...the fact is, if the Founding Fathers didn't want the Government to be kept in check and the people to have the power to over-throw the Government they would have never included such previsions within the Bill of Rights. If they have now made it illegal...well speaks for itself.

And other people that do live in the gentrified areas are able to make more money by working in that area once its gentrified. Gentrification obviously results in lots of people having to leave. So what. Bad stuff happens sometimes.

and

Gentrification is the process by which ghettos are eliminated. By definition. A ghetto gets gentrified and is no longer a ghetto, and it doesn't result in more ghettos popping up elsewhere. Lots of Upper manhattan had a lot of scummy ghettos, luckily gentrification started happening in lots of parts of it and its a hell of a lot better than in the past.

As you yourself said, it results in lots of people leaving who can't afford the area. They are still poor and such actions won't solve crime or remove it from the population. I gave you an example over in London [because I do not know American areas to show you there] but over here it has never worked or in other parts of Europe.

A song allows people to hear concepts they might not have heard of before. It allows them to find new ideas, which hopefully they will begin to look into.

Also the reason I raise Noam Chomsky is because he has given out interviews for RAtM and been on their DVDs talking about things like NAFTA, etc...which many people might not have seen before and getting his ideas to a newer audience.

To be honest, I myself don't think I would know of abolishment of Article 27 if I never heard of it from a RAtM song and then went to look it up. I also know many more people who do this.

It's a stepping stone. It's not the final answer and every artist whose style is this, I listen to tells people to go read, make their own mind up and decide for themselves. Which is a good thing.

As you yourself said; "People who receive their education primarily from television and music simply are not going to be listened to." and they themselves are telling people [who otherwise might not] to go read and get an education.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Odium
And by terms like "Take the Power Back" they mean for the people to once again have their say in things.

They do.

They do? How? and please don't tell me that our votes have any worth. I don't see the American public as having very much power over anything anymore. The Patriot Act I & II have stripped us of our rights. Electronic voter tampering has stripped us of our power.

This is an NWO forum. I think that the they we may fear are already in charge. Bush is just a puppet. Yeah, I'm simplifying, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

I need to clear something up about Immortal Technique, its funny when people say they do things just for money...

Answer this, Immortal Technique has turned down MAJOR RECORD LABELS who offered him MAJOR MONEY because they said they cant release certain songs and lyrics, so if he's doing it for money that would be dumb to turn them down...

and for those that say this has been done before, not like this, listen to the album before u judge, he doesnt just say the government is bad, he mentions names, dates, events, and details about things...

he is the truth, the FEDS ALREADY RAIDED HIS HOME!!! He had money on the table he made from doing shows, and in the end they let him go with no charges, and he has said he understands he's being watched and he will not stop what he is doing and he knows the path he chose by speaking out and will continue to take that risk...


this guy is for real, his new album drops early next year, THE MIDDLE PASSAGE, and its gonna be crazy...

Originally posted by Nygdan
Sounds more like people making money off conspiracy.

That wouldn't be very logical since you're guaranteed to make considerably less money rapping about the NWO than rapping about the norm.

You can't 'expose' something in a song anyway, exposing it means that you've revealed the truth of the matter, not simply bashed someting as being evil.

And that can't be done in a song...why?

What proof does this guy offer to back up his statements? None, since albums aren't research and don't come with biliographies or supporting citations.

It's an album,not a referrence book. Not breaking out into a dissertation doesn't mean something has not been revealed. If someone tells you their name and doesn't offer you any proof they've still exposed their name to you nonetheless. If you ask the artist about his lyrics in another setting or medium he'd have something to say and be able to tell you where he got it from,but he's not going to turn a song into a bibliography.

[edit on 19-8-2005 by Loungerist]

This is definately not anything new... -.- But good post nontheless.. Hip hop has always been a medium that speaks out politically.. If they get the recognition is another case. But ultimately.. hip hop in reference to the world and issues is something that is was pretty much based off of.. This is one of the reasons why it is becoming so increasingly popular, regardless of who or where you come from.

-Jago

[edit on 19-8-2005 by Jago]

Yeah underground hip hop is true hip hop.

A rapper named Saigon, whos gonna be on entourage this sunday.. ripped this brainwashed 20 year old american kid on shade 45 radio in this debate they had. There's many underground rappers who are self-concious and exposing true knowledge. Mainstream hip hop sucks, well most of it. Immortal technique has a lot of great songs.. cause of death and bin laden with mos def are his most political songs.

This isbecause blacks blame the NWO and Illuminati or some secret 'white man' conspiracy group on all the social problems and economic problems in black communities.

It's nothing more than their battle cry for reparations more wellfare, etc, etc...

[edit on 21-8-2005 by Frosty]

Actually, Frosty it's not.

Immortal Technique
My enemy is not the average white man,

and

Immortal Technique
In fact, I have more in common with most working and middle-class white people than I do with most rich black and Latino people.

LOL So these people only relate themselves to people based on social class? I like people for being fun and entertaining not being middle class white class upper black class.
When will people tear down these barriers?

Originally posted by Frosty
LOL So these people only relate themselves to people based on social class? I like people for being fun and entertaining not being middle class white class upper black class.
When will people tear down these barriers?

The point of the statement is just that, to show that Social-Class does not matter nor does skin-colour. To show that someone who is Mixed Race and Working Class can hold more in Common with a person of a different skin colour and social class then with someone of his own race is used to display that.

Nor does he say he likes them, he says he has more in common.

Stop placing words there which are not.

Originally posted by Frosty
This isbecause blacks blame the NWO and Illuminati or some secret 'white man' conspiracy group on all the social problems and economic problems in black communities.

Why change your arguement?

You are claiming that "Blacks" [which is a lovely term to use] blame the N.W.O. etc on some "Secret White Man" conspiracy.

If you would bother to listen to any of their work you would know many of these groups do not [a small minority do but than a small minority of white people want slavery back].

The only true revolutionary anti-government band that actually practised what they preached IMHO was CRASS.

www.trakmarx.com...

The rest are just "turning rebellion into money".



Artwork by Gee Vaucher a "member" of Crass

en.wikipedia.org...

ANOK, a lot of them give money away to what they believe in. Rage Against the Machine for instance did several live shows with the money going straight to fund peoples legal cases, etc.

Paris earns very little from selling albums, most of his stuff was on the net free [they are re-doing his main site] and he makes money from producing not his albums.

The list goes on.

im told 1984 was a good year, my birth into this world during the social explosion that was known as hiphop.

But any revolution that was to ride the waves of 'hiphop' was killed long ago. Just like UFO disinformation, the CIA proabably just switched the traintracks. Hiphoppers everywhere then get stuck on some wild goose chase, that really doenst even begin to scratch the surface, even if it were true.

Very possibly though, hiphop was doomed from the getgo. Maybe the disjointed community that was 'hiphop' was killed by the individuals love of money and fame. Any potential social change requires unity.

Today we have doublespeak. Lil'Jon is sippin on crunk juice, Paris is building a bomb, and the black eyed peas are selling out *peeing on stage* and asking where is the luuuuuv....?!

Babylon will fall. Hip hop cannot save her. Hiphop is mostly babylonian anyways.

I hope listeners realize for themselves that revolutionaries in music are usually not revolutionary at all. More likely, they are half hearted nitwits with a bit of talent, and they're smart enough to know whats selling at the moment. All the revolutionary rhetoric that comes from emcees is usually tangled in with some aggression and/or whine about their 'unhappy childhoods' or disdain for 'wack rappers'. Its all a show.

Most of them are all followers, trying so desperatley to fit the image of "rapper" as it is dictated to them by society. But respect to the emcees who are still coming original, attacking real issues etc..

But wheres the fun in that? hip hops about fun right...........

how is music not a form of informing people? you have to be very naive to say it's not.

conspicuouz, I used to think this too. Everybody has experienced atleast once while listening or observing an artist, the doubletake reaction of "wow, that makes sense." or "he/she is speaking truth!" Some of us have proabably even cried listening to the poetry of rap, or whatever genre. I agree this happens.

I dont agree however, that it happens enough for anything to become of it. Especially today when our youth of all people are desensitized to such extremes. A 5 minute slot on MTV for an 'underground rapper' is not going to change anybodies minds on any issues.

Sure, a tonne of people will see it, but if you asked them what they saw, they would reply:

"a rap video"

and for those that say this has been done before, not like this, listen to the album before u judge, he doesnt just say the government is bad, he mentions names, dates, events, and details about things...

Awsome. Im interested how he got all those dates, history and details to fit his rhyme schemes. I hope the hype hits the meter on this; but we all know 1 rapper aint sh***. No matter what hes saying. I will give the album a fair listen though.

[edit on 22-8-2005 by lost]

Hip hop is annoying anyway, it has destroyed what people refer to when 'R&B' is said and it is pop culture. They are all sell outs. Black Eye Peas tell you to 'turn your stereo up'. Why? So I can consume more electricity and help burn off more coal. Yeah, they really are exposing the conspiracies: artist who can't write their own lyrics or music. Mouth pieces for men withn guilty pleasures.

Originally posted by Odium
ANOK, a lot of them give money away to what they believe in. Rage Against the Machine for instance did several live shows with the money going straight to fund peoples legal cases, etc.

Paris earns very little from selling albums, most of his stuff was on the net free [they are re-doing his main site] and he makes money from producing not his albums.

The list goes on.

Maybe, but there is lot more to it than not making much money and doing shows for free. Infact free shows in the long run make more money because of the exposure. So just because they do free shows it doesn't mean they're not in it for the money.
And they are on a MAJOR record label, that makes them suspect in my eyes.

They maybe easier to listen to than CRASS, but they haven't done half what Crass did to bring awareness to the masses...

Originally posted by Frosty
Hip hop is annoying anyway, it has destroyed what people refer to when 'R&B' is said and it is pop culture. They are all sell outs. Black Eye Peas tell you to 'turn your stereo up'. Why? So I can consume more electricity and help burn off more coal. Yeah, they really are exposing the conspiracies: artist who can't write their own lyrics or music. Mouth pieces for men withn guilty pleasures.

Well done you can generalize. -claps-

Originally posted by Odium
ANOK, a lot of them give money away to what they believe in. Rage Against the Machine for instance did several live shows with the money going straight to fund peoples legal cases, etc.

Paris earns very little from selling albums, most of his stuff was on the net free [they are re-doing his main site] and he makes money from producing not his albums.

The list goes on.

Originally posted by ANOK
Maybe, but there is lot more to it than not making much money and doing shows for free. Infact free shows in the long run make more money because of the exposure. So just because they do free shows it doesn't mean they're not in it for the money.
And they are on a MAJOR record label, that makes them suspect in my eyes.

They maybe easier to listen to than CRASS, but they haven't done half what Crass did to bring awareness to the masses...

Well it depends, Rage Against the Machine lost their record deal because they would not change what they were saying (Zack wouldn't) and a lot of their money has gone to help people. Which they would have not been able to do without the larger exposure.

Also the fact Rage Against the Machine sold millions of albums, allowed them to get out to a wider audience so more people could hear their message.

But then a lot of others like Paris for example do not use a large record label. They self-publish everything like Rage's first album [which was on an independent before they got hired]. It's also very easy to criticse people when you just think they made money however when you look at where a lot of the money went it paints them [Zack at least] in a different light.

Has anyone documented the connection between todays Hip Hop and Rap artist and the Masons? Most notably the G. Masons worship the G and Rap and Hip Hop uses G as a pronoun i.e. "Yo G!" As well as some of the lyrics in songs talking about square and level which are directly referanced in masonry.