OP/ED: The Face of American Grief

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by intrepid
No, I'll BE the logical, not the player.

Nuff said. I won't play your game. It's a stupid one, both sides. My arguement stands on it's own, not because of a predetermined stance.

The reader will see it, why can't you?

I don't see exactly how your argument stands on it's own. First you "seem" to be saying that a Republican president should take on the issues of Democrats, and then you state that anyone that decides not to listen or agree with the erroneous views of Shennan is close minded....

How exactly are those arguments standing on their own? There is nothing logical about your arguments.

[edit on 19-8-2005 by Muaddib]

I'm speculating on this...but what if he doesn't see the views of Sheenan as "erroneous".

That's my first guess.

Originally posted by Muaddib
There is nothing logical about your arguments.

From your point of view, you're right. I don't see either side. I see both sides and you both are tearing at the fabric of your nation. Makes me glad I don't live there.

Why can't you see that?

Originally posted by Valhall

I'm speculating on this...but what if he doesn't see the views of Sheenan as "erroneous".

That's my first guess.

Well, let me ask directly then.

Intrepid, do you actually think that "If Israel gets out of Palestine terrorism will end and that Israel should stop existing"? and if you think so why stop with Israel? why not give Spain back to the radical Muslims, and Kashmir, and Italy, and every other country the Islamic terrorists demand being an Islamic state? Do you think that will stop Islamic terrorism?

Do you think this issue (Israel & Palestine) has anything to do with the death of Sheenan's son?

Do you think she has a right not to pay her taxes because she lost her son? (Even thou she is still living in the US)

Do you think a Republican president should be taking on the issues of Democrats instead of Republican issues? and why has no Democrat president taken on the issues of Republicans if you think president Bush should? shouldn't Democratic presidents have been demanded to take the side of Republican issues instead of their own issues?

And last but not least, what exactly does every one of those issues she keeps barking about have anything to do with her son's death who happened to disagree with her according to the testimony of his father and rest of the family?




[edit on 19-8-2005 by Muaddib]

damn...

I wish you'd asked me those questions.

I'll wait to see intrepid - who doesn't live in the U.S. - answer those questions.

Cool, 2 people that want to see my replies.

Forthcoming.

Originally posted by Valhall
damn...

I wish you'd asked me those questions.

I'll wait to see intrepid - who doesn't live in the U.S. - answer those questions.

Hey, you can anwser those question too if you want.

There are enough questions for everyone.

[edit on 19-8-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib


do you actually think that "If Israel gets out of Palestine terrorism will end and that Israel should stop existing"?

No, I don't. But I also don't believe that Israel can say they did all possible to try to achieve peace without doing this.

and if you think so why stop with Israel? why not give Spain back to the radical Muslims, and Kashmir, and Italy, and every other country the Islamic terrorists demand being an Islamic state?

Hyperbolic non-relevant questions aimed at extending the argument into illogical and disconnected areas. We're not talking about these countries. We're talking about the Israeli/Palestinian dispute.

Do you think that will stop Islamic terrorism?

Probably not...see my answer to the first question.

Do you think this issue (Israel & Palestine) has anything to do with the death of Sheenan's son?

Yes...I do. It indirectly led to the situation that killed her son. An indirect yes is not a no...so, yes.

Do you think she has a right not to pay her taxes because she lost her son? (Even thou she is still living in the US)

I think she has every right to try to not pay her taxes. If it ends up biting her in the ass, I'll step forward and offer to pay it out. After all, I'm spending the rest of my income-earning years paying off Marc Rich's.

Do you think a Republican president should be taking on the issues of Democrats instead of Republican issues? and why has no Democrat president taken on the issues of Republicans if you think president Bush should? shouldn't Democratic presidents have been demanded to take the side of Republican issues instead of their own issues?

Yes. A President takes an oath of office for the American people. He takes that oath irrespective of those peoples' political affiliations. I can't speak for the breach of this oath on past administrations. But I can tell you I expect it from this one and every one to come.

And last but not least, what exactly does every one of those issues she keeps barking about have anything to do with her son's death who happened to disagree with her according to the testimony of his father and rest of the family?

Nothing. It has to do with her loss, her grief and her anger. It has to do with the combination of those emotions, each of which are almost insurmountable, but in combination, soul-wrenching. She wants answers. I don't give a flying fruit-loop what the media, the organizations, etc. are doing because of this woman's grief. I care that she has the right to sit in a bar-ditch and rail against the machine....no matter what brand the machine is at the time.

A five week vacation is a long vacation when men and women are halfway across the world dying in a conflict that was initiated on lies to their parents and to them. But it's not all that long to put up with one tormented mother.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Well, let me ask directly then.

Intrepid, do you actually think that "If Israel gets out of Palestine terrorism will end and that Israel should stop existing"? and if you think so why stop with Israel? why not give Spain back to the radical Muslims, and Kashmir, and Italy, and every other country the Islamic terrorists demand being an Islamic state? Do you think that will stop Islamic terrorism

Illogical question but I'll give you a logical response none the less.

What has anything you have said here have to do with the REAL world? Spain? Italy? Huh?

Do you think this issue (Israel & Palestine) has anything to do with the death of Sheenan's son

?

Nope!

Do you think she has a right not to pay her taxes because she lost her son? (Even thou she is still living in the US)

I couldn't care less.

Do you think a Republican president should be taking on the issues of Democrats instead of Republican issues?

Only if he wants to be re-elected, or his Vice.

Removed the rhetorical nonesence.

And last but not least, what exactly does every one of those issues she keeps barking about have anything to do with her son's death who happened to disagree with her according to the testimony of his father and rest of the family

Damn good point. What has it to do in YOUR life? Seems like it would be more pertainant to her than an innoccuous person.

Bottom line on your question, Isreal won't get out of Palistine. Funny you should mention that one people is occupying foriegn soil, I'm glad you pointed that out. Now I don't have to.

I'll bold it. Up there, your words:

If Israel gets out of Palestine

Damn, I didn't mean to kill the thread with logic. I guess the "talking heads" had to go back and rethink.

Pfft.

Originally posted by intrepid
Illogical question but I'll give you a logical response none the less.

What has anything you have said here have to do with the REAL world? Spain? Italy? Huh?

First, if the question is illogical, then you agree that at least a great part of what she is saying and asking of the president is illogical.

Second, you are anwsering a question with a question, but I'll anwser your question.

Third, What do those countries have to do with the real world?
Islamic terrorists have given many excuses for attacking different countries in the world. Some of those excuses are that they want back all those countries which were conquered by their ancestors and where Muslim people are living.

So, if Sheenan believes that the dissolution of Israel will stop Muslim extremists from making terrorist attacks, what about the Islamic terrorists' other demands for other lands? Wouldn't they continue making attacks even after Israel ceases to exist?

Originally posted by intrepid
Nope!

Good, we agree on something then.

Originally posted by intrepid

Do you think a Republican president should be taking on the issues of Democrats instead of Republican issues?

Only if he wants to be re-elected, or his Vice.

I am not sure if you follow the politics of any country but normally the presidents, pm, etc, etc; that are chosen by the people, are chosen because of their party stand on certain issues, and not because those elected are going to change their stand on issues when they see it fit to get more people to vote for them. That's why there are different political parties.

Originally posted by intrepid
Removed the rhetorical nonesence.

I didn't know i was writing any "rethorical nonesence" whatever that is.

Originally posted by intrepid
Damn good point. What has it to do in YOUR life? Seems like it would be more pertainant to her than an innoccuous person.

I am also living in the US. Does it affect my life? Not really, but don't i have a right to make my own opinion on issues that affect my country? and why are you responding to this thread if you think this is only pertinent to her?

Originally posted by intrepid
Bottom line on your question, Isreal won't get out of Palistine. Funny you should mention that one people is occupying foriegn soil, I'm glad you pointed that out. Now I don't have to.

I'll bold it. Up there, your words:

If Israel gets out of Palestine

That was not my statement, i was making that question according to what Sheenan thinks, not acording to what I think.

I think Israel, and the Israeli people, have more of a right to be In Israel, than Palestinians, because they won that land by right of conquest, and because by International law they were also given the right to own part of that land.


[edit on 19-8-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by intrepid
Damn, I didn't mean to kill the thread with logic. I guess the "talking heads" had to go back and rethink.

Pfft.

I am sorry....
were you saying something about rethorical nonsense?

The face of American grief should combine the rolling eyes of all who are fed up with this stupid political bickering.

Enough already.

Whoops wrong thread

[edit on 19-8-2005 by Amuk]

She has denied saying anything about Israel.

crawfordupdate.blogspot.com...

A former friend who is anti-Israel and wants to use the spotlight on me to push his anti-Semitism is telling everyone who is listening that I believe that Casey died for Israel and has gone so far as to apparently doctor an email from me. People have to know that he doesn?t speak for me. ABC Nightline can?t confirm his email is real and therefore any reporting on it is irresponsible. That is not my issue. That is not my message and anyone who knows me knows it doesn?t sound like me.

Originally posted by goose
She has denied saying anything about Israel.

I guess it was her evil clone the one who said on tv

"You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism,"

---edited---

[edit on 20-8-2005 by Muaddib]

You got a link for that, I just posted a link with a complete accounting from her on what she said and a total denial of blaming Israel for her son's death.

Originally posted by goose
You got a link for that, I just posted a link with a complete accounting from her on what she said and a total denial of blaming Israel for her son's death.

Her statements were plastered all over the news. Noone put those words in her mouth, she did. BTW, perhaps you should note that there was a link given when this story was presented. If you want to find more do a google search. She might be claiming now that she is not blaming Israel, but then why in the world did she make that statement to get Israel out of Palestine and terrorism would end?....

Or is she finally admitting that she is using her son's death for her own political agenda?.......





[edit on 20-8-2005 by Muaddib]

I went to the links povided from the op and not one has any statements she supposedly made about Israel. I have not heard her say the statement you are saying she has said. I posted a link with a statement from her denying she has ever said any such thing. So where is your link proving she said it? I am aware that a lot of folks are saying she said it but that does not make it so. Just because a lot of Bush and war supporters are saying she said it is just is not enough. Where is a link with a direct quote of her saying it? I think your opinions about her are based on misinformation. It can be plastered all over the tv and media but if no one has a direct quote of her saying it then I have to believe her when she says she did not say it. Where is the proof?

I am well aware that the There are a lot of mothers who have lost sons in this war joining her and many people speaking out against this war and have been from the beginning and their only agenda has been to stop the war. And all those who have spoken out from the beginning have been proven right.

[edit on 21-8-2005 by goose]

Originally posted by garyo1954
Maybe George will come out and say, "abragado!" like he did a few years ago when interviewed by a news program.

Anyone remember that? The interviewer confronted him with a French quote and his response was, "Abragado. See? I am bilingual too."

(Abragado is Mexican/Spanish for lawyer.)

Sounds to me like he was saying "thank you" in Portuguese (obrigado). Lawyer in Spanish is abogado.

Originally posted by Nerdling
Agree with you 100% Fred. A five minute closed door meeting would completely defuse the situation.

Even if he meets with her now, he can't save himself. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Cry me a river. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. There must be hell to pay for his clever advisors.

Go gettim Cindy! The woman has cojones of steel.