My Idea to Solve the Illegal Immigration Problem

Originally posted by McGrude

Originally posted by Tinkleflower
If they have any citizen children, then that child is entitled to help - as is any other citizen.

There's part of the problem. They come here illegally and start pumping out children that are automatically citizens.

What exactly are you suggesting here?
Because I'm not sure I like the sound of it.

One possible solution would be to offer Mexico a sweet deal and make them a US state.





seekerof

[edit on 17-8-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by boogyman

Originally posted by McGrude

There's part of the problem. They come here illegally and start pumping out children that are automatically citizens.

What exactly are you suggesting here?
Because I'm not sure I like the sound of it.

I just don't feel that the children of illegal immigrants should automatically become citizens. If they're here on a valid Visa, no problem.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower

Originally posted by deadcatsrule
For the amount of money they are robbing our communities in the form of foodstamps and other help .A BUS TICKET back to mexico has got to be cheaper

The vast majority of US states prevent illegal immigrants from obtaining food stamps for themselves.

If they have any citizen children, then that child is entitled to help - as is any other citizen.



[edit on 17-8-2005 by Tinkleflower]

From personal experience in law enforcement I have to say that you are both right.

LEGALLY, illegals cannot get federal foodstamps.

FUNCTIONALLY, the foodstamp program is used probably 50 % in my state (TX) by illegals using ficticious US citizen's identities. And the AG admin knows it; but they get more federal money with more users in the system, so they actually RECRUIT illegals.

Don't believe me? Go to the federal building in your state that houses "immigration court." Count the number of posters you see, offering to enroll people in Social Security, foodstamps, and state welfare ops. Seriously.

The record in my agency was held by ME. I arrested a Mexican national with Social Security checks in his wallet for TWENTY ONE bogus "identities" He also had "foodstamp credicards" in about a dozen identities.

NO elected official will admit that what is killing Social Security is the illegals milking it. Think about it. One illegal syphoning off TWENTY ONE incomes = the taxes of thousands of U.S. taxpayers.

Here's your sign.

Originally posted by McGrude
There's part of the problem. They come here illegally and start pumping out children that are automatically citizens.

See, the laws of the land allow for folk born here to become citizens from birth

That's how most of our forefathers got their starts, too, I believe; unfortunately neither they nor their immediate descendants had the benefit of foresight.

Having said that, these children cannot legally claim benefits for their parents, if those parents are illegal, until a) the child is 21 or b) the parents become legal themselves (whichever happens first).

As was pointed out, practically speaking, we'll still see it being abused. The problems with illegals obtaining help that they're strictly not entitled to receive are absolutely valid concerns, and those issues are currently bigger in the southern states than elsewhere. If we have rules, they should be enforced. That applies to citizens, legal residents and illegals across the board, but that takes money that's just not available.

And there's also a huge problem with the lack of funding given to the Immigration services....there are so, so many illegals who enter the country legally then overstay their visas/permits. This is a huge problem, but there simply isn't the manpower or funding available to provide any sort of tracking system.

I know the direction of the ire is generally towards Hispanics, but that's only one part of the picture; I'm not advocating a carte blanche acceptance of illegal immigrants, but it's also prudent to consider the circumstances forcing many of these immigrants to leave their birth nations. It's a bad situation, but there are so many factors involved that it doesn't seem either reasonable or logical to only concentrate on one area.

And bear in mind there are still many, many illegals who are indeed contributing positively to your local economy.

Originally posted by Tinkleflower

these children cannot legally claim benefits for their parents, if those parents are illegal, until a) the child is 21 or b) the parents become legal themselves (whichever happens first).

I'm not advocating a carte blanche acceptance of illegal immigrants, but it's also prudent to consider the circumstances forcing many of these immigrants to leave their birth nations.

And bear in mind there are still many, many illegals who are indeed contributing positively to your local economy.

I'm not trying to attack your thoughts on any of these points, tinkleflower; I think you've got a well-meaning approach.

That said, there are a couple of things to add to each of your statements:

these children cannot legally claim benefits for their parents, if those parents are illegal, until a) the child is 21 or b) the parents become legal themselves (whichever happens first).

One of the biggest federal programs is WIC, Women (&) Infant Children. If one child in the family is under 5 years old, the mother gets food for all the kids based on that fact. Regardless of the mother's legal status. Now obviously, we don't want people starving. But the WIC program 'rewards' women for having infants in their households. And I'm not talking about profligate pregnancy. There is fraud, involving taking your sister's kids to WIC, and getting benefits by claiming them as your own, under new names, as well as under their own. And Unlike the foodstamp program, there's no real requirement to show photo ID when getting the food. Every home search I've ever done in a "meth house" has turned up a bunch of WIC food, even with no women or children living there. WIC buys a lot of meth.

I'm not advocating a carte blanche acceptance of illegal immigrants, but it's also prudent to consider the circumstances forcing many of these immigrants to leave their birth nations.

While we want to extend a helping hand as much as possible, it is important to remember that WE are not responsible for living conditions in other countries. We cannot control how their governments mistreat their own citizens, so we are hardly responsible for their misdeeds. We ARE responsible first and foremost, for living conditions HERE. There is enough bounty in America to help out a lot of other people. But them coming here and TAKING it by force or fraud is not an answer.

And bear in mind there are still many, many illegals who are indeed contributing positively to your local economy.

I disagree with you on this, emphatically. I don't know how much experience you have with the illegal community; I worked with them in law enforcement, and did volunteer work in a community shelter and food pantry until I moved away from the Dallas area last year.

1. Most of the earnings by illegal males are wired home to Latin America at the end of each work week. This removes capital from America's economy, and exports it abroad.

2. From Texas, at least as far north as Kansas, there is an "illegal union" in the construction trades. I'm not talking about unskilled labor: I mean brickwork, operation construction macinery, and particularly in concrete / street work. The jobs pay $15-$25 an hour, and you cannot get a job if you are anglo. Even if you are an illegal, you pay 8 - 10 an hour to "el boss" to keep your job. There are a lot of born-here Americans who DO want those jobs, but aren't allowed to get them.

3. A disproportionate amount of crime is committed by illegals. Not Hispanic Americans, but illegals specifically. Because they are routinely set free on bail, they can easily flee BACK south to avoid DWI, drug, or weapons convictions. This is a serious problem in TX and CA, but those states won't release statistics on it because doing so would be "racist."

4. Cops, officers I know, won't stop a car driven by an illegal on routine traffic violations. Doing so involves extra paperwork, and escorting the illegal downtown, and extra expense for the department. It also ties up the criminal database system. In total, a speeding ticket for an illegal can take a cop off the street for between 2 and 6 hours. So the cops ignore violations by presumed illegals. Which means more tickets for you and me.


Now, having said all that, I want to be clear about something. Even though I think border jumping is a serious threat to our nations well-being, I don't blame illegal immigrants as individuals. If I woke up tomorrow with a deep tan on the wrong side of the Rio Grande, I'd be over here by sundown. That said, however, we have a responsibility to them and us, to make America prosperous AND welcoming, so that people can come here legally, and not end up being exploited as illegals, and burdening our institutions in the process.

Granted, the only experience I have is being one myself (a legal one, I hasten to add ), and being a volunteer advocate and liaison for a couple of years (east coast and midwest) which brought me into contact with law enforcement and various government offices (they don't call me Red Tape Cruncher for nothing. And oh, but there's a lot of it...).

One difference between our respective frames of experience seems to be in terms of how illegals can help a community; here at least many provide much-needed voluntary help in many areas (reading programs, interpretation skills, cleaning services, deskhelp for certain charitable and volunteer organisations, etc) along with a good number who despite being illegal end up ploughing most of the funds they do receive directly back into their community. And I do acknowledge that not all of 'em do this

I do realise that fraud is a huge problem and it exists in all areas; here in particular though it's very difficult (on a practical level) to get food stamps and/or federal aid if you don't have legal status. It's actually difficult getting that help if you're a legal resident too; that might simply a reflection in the bureaucratic differences between certain midwestern states and the (absolutely more heavily burdened) southern states. Though a parent can indeed apply for - and receive - benefits for a natural-born citizen child, technically these benefits are awarded to that child, not the parent itself, though I realise that's perhaps only a semantic difference.

With regards to the WIC program, this is abused by both immigrants and citizens alike. It's my understanding though that there's actually no status requirement; all that needs to be verified is proof of residence and nutritional need - ...if I'm mistaken, let me know? Regardless, the ease at which this is abused is astonishing, and the system is in dire need of reform.

Whilst we disagree on some points, I think we do both agree that illegal aliens often are, overall, a tremendous drain on resources, and that the immigration and welfare systems need to be drastically changed in order to allow more appropriate benefit allocation to those who actually satisfy the legal and need requirements.

You're making some great points, and I'm enjoying this discussion immensely



[edit on 18-8-2005 by Tinkleflower]

I support mining the border, or mini guns. either is fine, but we can not let illigal immagrants steal our jobs. Or an idea from another website
Create a gameshow called:Who wants to be an immigrant.
you put a bunch of obstacles around the border and any immigrants who can cross them become U.S. citizens , the rest have to return to whereever they came from. Or we could invade mexico.

Originally posted by maninblack
I support mining the border, or mini guns. either is fine, but we can not let illigal immagrants steal our jobs. Or an idea from another website
Create a gameshow called:Who wants to be an immigrant.
you put a bunch of obstacles around the border and any immigrants who can cross them become U.S. citizens , the rest have to return to whereever they came from. Or we could invade mexico.

Right, can't go letting any intelligent, literate Mexicans come into the country to steal your job

You want to stop this? Then start pushing for reform. Start fighting to get stricter penalties for the companies who employ illegals. Start fighting for more money to be allocated to the immigration services so they can actually do their jobs. Start fighting to make it harder for illegals to obtain government services.

(do you think every illegal comes over from Mexico? You'd be quite wrong)

I like my idea, instead of tip toeing through the flower field enforce the law. Instead of letting go to court, spend more of our money, other BS, round em up and ship them to Africa. After a couple months go back and ask "Now that you lived in this hell hole your home country ain't looking so bad is it?" And leave them there.

[edit on 19-8-2005 by deadcatsrule]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Originally posted by Tinkleflower

Originally posted by deadcatsrule
For the amount of money they are robbing our communities in the form of foodstamps and other help .A BUS TICKET back to mexico has got to be cheaper

The vast majority of US states prevent illegal immigrants from obtaining food stamps for themselves.

If they have any citizen children, then that child is entitled to help - as is any other citizen.



[edit on 17-8-2005 by Tinkleflower]

From personal experience in law enforcement I have to say that you are both right.

LEGALLY, illegals cannot get federal foodstamps.

FUNCTIONALLY, the foodstamp program is used probably 50 % in my state (TX) by illegals using ficticious US citizen's identities. And the AG admin knows it; but they get more federal money with more users in the system, so they actually RECRUIT illegals.

Don't believe me? Go to the federal building in your state that houses "immigration court." Count the number of posters you see, offering to enroll people in Social Security, foodstamps, and state welfare ops. Seriously.

The record in my agency was held by ME. I arrested a Mexican national with Social Security checks in his wallet for TWENTY ONE bogus "identities" He also had "foodstamp credicards" in about a dozen identities.

NO elected official will admit that what is killing Social Security is the illegals milking it. Think about it. One illegal syphoning off TWENTY ONE incomes = the taxes of thousands of U.S. taxpayers.

Here's your sign.

finaly someone see's things the way I do .What we need to do is stop complaining about them and find a way to get them out