America could be invaded!

Haha, made ya look. Don't worry, it's a possibility, but it's off in the future, and we can stop it if we play our cards right. Here's what I'm talking about.

If you don't follow the news closely, you may not be aware of some developments and proposals that could have and could further drastically change the charcter of South America, and bring our rivals into the Western Hemisphere, further eroding the security of "oceanic fortress" which has kept America safe for two centuries.

Our key problem in South America right now is the growing relationship between Russia, Brazil, Venzuela, and Cuba. Brazil is part of an economic alliance with Russia, India, China, and South Africa (BRICS), which is strengthening their ties. As Russia gains economic interest in South America, mainly in regimes like that of Hugo Chavez, which for better or for worse America feels compelled to be hostile towards, they gain an incentive to have defensive capabilities over here.

So the big question is, what happens if Russia continues to strengthen ties with and sell military equipment to nations in South America, creating a military threat just across the Gulf of Mexico? While belligerence is not likely, this creates a key strategic barrier to any American offensive in South Asia or the Pacific with China or governments backed by China. We couldn't support South Korea, because the commitment of forces there would leave us vulnerable if Russia and allies decided to sieze the moment for aggression against Columbia, Panama, or even Mexico, which would be very dangerous for America.

The way I see it, a wedge must be driven between Russia and China, and America must seek the best possible (if still uneasy) relations with Russia.
I think the key is India. India holds just as much economic promise for Russia as China, perhaps more. The Chinese can produce more, but the Indians ca produce better- India is a growing power in technological fields and buys a good amount of Russian hardware. Russia stands to benefit by continuing a partnership with India, in which India will eventually be able to contribute substantially to Russian military hardware development. Furthermore, India's geographic location makes them strategically important to Russia should there ever be a Sino-Russian dispute over former Soviet republics such as Tajikistan. Last but not least, partnership with India offers Russia insurance of their ability to project naval power to the Persian Gulf, without relying on the Suez Canal.

So how do we make Russia choose between India and China?

1. We ask for India's help in peacekeeping and nation building efforts in East Africa, which we should be spending heavily on, acknowlding India as a world power and helping them to further their economic interest in natural trading partners which lie just across the Indian ocean (which they fancy themselves the controllers of). The goal here is to create American/Indian cooperation to make China distrustful of India and India friendly to America.

2. We create economic deterrents to American companies outsourcing jobs to China, but don't tighten down quite so much on India. Feed a rivalry there.

3. Perhaps the best idea- we bribe Japan into building the strongest possible economic ties with India, and get try to arrange American-Japanese-Indian naval exercises and even joint development of naval technology. If India and Japan will allow us to bring them together, it will limit India's ability to support any prospective Chinese military action direct or indirect against Japan/America, thus creating such a barrier for Russia as well.

4. (the dirty idea) We frame Indonesia, or terrorist groups operating from Indonesia, for waging a terror campaign in Kashmir, and encourage India to push for a UN campaign against the terrorists there. When the UN flinches, we promise to support them in a unilateral action. India ends up with a naval base in the Pacific, encroaching on what China may see as its sphere of influence.


All of the above is MUCH easier said than done, but I do see South America drifting left and aligning with Russia, which would be much less of a probelm if we can find a way to prevent Russia and China from cooperating militarily, either via India or otherwise.

whats the problem with south america drifting left anyway?

why would any one want to invade?

it reallt makes no sense to me, i could see maybe the us invading smaller south american nations to "protect " them from communism, but , well yeah like i said it jusat dont make any sense

I'm not proposing that somebody is positioning specifically to invade us exactly. It's more than invasion to worry about. The mere feasibility of invasion is enough to be a problem.
Right now, if Russia made up their mind to protect one of our enemies- just for example let's say Iran and put troops in our way, it would be an option to simply run them over. What are they gonna do? Go nuclear and sacrifice their whole country to avenge a handful of troops lost to a failed gambit?

But now let's suppose that it's 2020 and Russia is in nice and tight with Venezuela, Brazil, Cuba, and a recently overthrown Columbia. They tell us "stay the hell out of Iran or else". We call their bluff- but they're not bluffing- they take Panama and shut down the canal to US traffic. What are we supposed to do about that, fight the Russians and risk a full blown war on 2 or perhaps even 3 fronts (South- in Central America, South-East- if they make an amphibious landing into Mexico and push North, and Northern, if they really get pissed and decide to come through Alaska, cross the rockies in Canada, and drive South towards Ohio)?

Sure they're not just gonna wake up one day and say "Hey Ivan, we haven't had a war in forever- let's invade America." But they'll have a viable conventional deterrent to check our moves with. It would be akin to the old days when any American move against a Soviet ally would mean a Soviet move against Berlin, forcing America to retaliate further and leading to full-blown war.

The presence of conventional stepping-stones to war is vital to deterrence, because if you only have the big one to start with, everyone knows you aren't going to use it over something small, and thus your enemy can run amok on the small stuff.

The only thing you've not mentioned is NATO. If anyone invades the US, then NATO becomes involved. Yes, all other members (except Canada) are far enough away to prevent any rapid reaction to an invasion, but their proximity to Russia might prevent too much help coming from there and without the backing of the Russians, an attack on the US by the South American countires mentioned would not be too successful.

While Russia may have been making good trading links with the South Americans, it has also been very pragmatic in trying to keep close to Europe. In fact, in my opinion, the only reason Russia is now not a member of Nato is that China might not react too well having the largest country and by extension, the largest and most powerful military alliance on its borders.

Russian and Chinese relations are not as cosy as you might think. There are many recent occurances where minor border clashes have happened between to the great (in size) nations.

All your suggestions seemed viable provided we had a diplomatic corp that could carry the mail so to speak. Sec. Rice? Not to strong on the diplomatic front currently. Maybe they will respond to "shock and awe" Seem to be working great in Iraq!

I don't think the Central or South Americans need to make any alliances to be able to Invade. They can pretty much walk into Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and Calif. right now. I think America is being invaded as we type.

Hablo Espanol? Me neither. Time to learn though!!! Or maybe Mandrian!

No military invasion needed, just 'send us your poor and down-trodden'....or simply just immigrate to the US.
Ask Mexico, immigration is a wonderful invasion tool.






seekerof

[edit on 15-9-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
No military invasion needed, just 'send us your poor and down-trodden'....or simply just immigrate to the US.
Ask Mexico, immigration is a wonderful invasion tool.






seekerof

[edit on 15-9-2005 by Seekerof]

Yeah, no kidding--and worst of all, Bush seems to be all for rolling out the red carpet for our invaders.

Yes, illegal aliens ARE invaders.

If anyone invades America NATO will become involved ? Depends on the circumstances but cant exactly see France,Germany and a few others exactly rushing to America's aid now can you ? I think a better scenario would be what would these countries do if America hit by a nuclear strike by Russia/China an other somewhere far down the timeline.

Originally posted by Seekerof
No military invasion needed, just 'send us your poor and down-trodden'....or simply just immigrate to the US.

Yes immigrante to the US like all the other folks especially the founders of America. They invaded the land and took it away from the Indian's...
Just ask them how it feels...
Karma's a btch ain't it?

Only if Russia would ally with America or North Korea and Japan, World Domination is sure.

Originally posted by bmdefiant
If anyone invades America NATO will become involved ? Depends on the circumstances but cant exactly see France,Germany and a few others exactly rushing to America's aid now can you ? I think a better scenario would be what would these countries do if America hit by a nuclear strike by Russia/China an other somewhere far down the timeline.

I could if russia reared its head against the US, do you seriosly think that they wouldnt want some US backing if the rusikies suddenly started wanting thier land back?

Originally posted by tiddly54
whats the problem with south america drifting left anyway?

why would any one want to invade?

it reallt makes no sense to me, i could see maybe the us invading smaller south american nations to "protect " them from communism, but , well yeah like i said it jusat dont make any sense

go rent the movie "red dawn." this scenario is damn near exactly the scenario in that movie (except for the china part).

south america became red, which caused a revolution in mexico. millions of "immigrants" had already infiltrated the US and were waiting for the big attack to rise up in the larger towns. cuba played a leading role in the attack. europe decided two major wars were enough for one century and opted out of our defense.

scary how a cold war movie still has credence today.

Actually I beleive NATO would jump at the chance to aid the US if a major war started between the US and Russia. Europe has no standing army large enough to deter the Russian Bear if she gets pissed and decides to become a superpower again.
(Sorry Brits, I love you guys, I'm 3/4ths English myself, but I have to say that the SAS and the Coldstream Guards would be steamrolled by a corps of Guards Armored divisions)
I wouldn't go so far as to call illegal immigration an invasion, its more of a nuisance. It depreives the government of tax revenue and native born Americans of needed jobs.
As far as Red Dawn beign relevant to the scenario, yes it is, but the movie was lame as hell. Sorry, just my opinion.

Originally posted by SpecAgentDW
As far as Red Dawn beign relevant to the scenario, yes it is, but the movie was lame as hell. Sorry, just my opinion.

lol...it's an eightees brat pack flick, what do you expect?

Prety good scenario Vagabond i like it . But you never know what would really be our reaction to war until you taste it .

[edit on 4-2-2006 by Russian Boy]

Here is a post i found in the internet that maybe old but it am sure it will make you rethink about the title of this thread(America could be inveted)



FBI Director Admits Russians May Have Secret Weapons in US
NewsMax.com
November 8, 1999

FBI Director Louis Freeh admitted that Russia may yet have stored weapons — including nuclear suitcase bombs — at secret locations around the U.S.
The stunning revelations appeared in yesterday’s editions of the New York Post. The paper quoted Congressman Curt Weldon (R-Pa.) as having had a conversation with Freeh in the past two weeks.

Weldon said that Freeh "acknowledged the possibility that hidden weapons caches exist in the United States . . . .”

Weldon, a leading congressional expert on Russia and chairman of the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Military Research and Development, said, "There is no doubt that the Soviets stored material in this country. The question is what and where.”

Congressional scrutiny has focused on dozens of nuclear suitcase bombs that have disappeared from Russian’s nuclear arsenal. According to Russian sources, including Russian General Alexander Lebed, Russia produced 132 nuclear suitcase bombs, each carrying 10 kilotons of explosive material. Only 48 remain in Russia’s inventory; the rest have disappeared.

The FBI has taken a nonchalant approach to locating the secret caches.

Congressional sources indicate that the FBI scoured the area around Brainerd, Minn. — one area Russian agents were believed to have forward-deployed weapons in the event of a war.

But Weldon said the Clinton administration is not interested in pressing the Yeltsin government for fear of destabilizing his shaky position vis-à-vis the country’s military leadership.

Concerns about the secret stockpiles have been fueled in recent years by revelations made by Russian defectors.

One KGB defector, Vasili Mitrokhin, provided information to British intelligence that secret weapons stockpiles are scattered throughout the U.S., including upstate New York, California, Texas, Montana and Minnesota.

Mitrokhin has also stated that such stockpiles were also made throughout Europe. Some Russian weapons caches have been located in Belgium and Switzerland.

Colonel Stanislav Lunev, the highest ranking military spy ever to defect from Russia, has testified that the Soviet military developed elaborate plans for the use of weapons during the outset of a war with the U.S.

Lunev said Russian military plans include the destruction of military bases, command and control centers, and the assassination of top U.S. leaders, including the president and members of Congress.

Lunev has also told members of Congress that suitcase nuclear devices may have already been forward-deployed into the U.S.

While the secret stockpiles appear to be remnants of the Cold War period, Lunev, a NewsMax.com columnist and author of Through the Eyes of the Enemy, has warned U.S. authorities that Soviet military strategy continues under the guise of Russian "democracy.”

Lunev has stated that Russian military leaders continue to see a nuclear conflict between Russia and the United States as "inevitable.”

In recent years, the Russian government has continued to invest heavily in strategic weapons. Russia is currently mass producing the Topol-M intercontinental missile — a weapon more sophisticated than anything produced by the U.S. military.

Russia also continues to invest billions in building large underground bunkers for use during a nuclear conflict. Last month, the Yelstin government announced plans to increase military spending by 50 percent in next year's budget.

Now now Vagabond America wouldnt be invaded. The people of America would be liberated from there oppresses and WMDs will be found for real.
Cheers Xpert11.