Churches = Big Business?

Wouldn't all churches then be guilty of exploiting God? I think that would be a quick ticket to hell.

Yep. Don't believe me? Ask how much it would cost to hold a wedding there...

Was free, of course we were members there. Well I think we did have to pay like 120 dollars for the pastor to officiate.

I just lost my job, where's my reward for forking over 10% of my life's work to a church? Where's the big fat paycheck? Oh, thats right, there is none. Ironic. She told her pastor I lost my job when he asked for his $200 weekly paycheck, and his reward was "we'll pray for him".. yeah, thanks chump.

Must depend on the church you go to. When my family was going through some rough times we were surprised to be given a check for about 500 dollars from the church. Honestly I doubt we had given that amount to them in the years we attended the church.

[edit on 17/8/05 by Skibum]

Well, i dont believe in tithing(giving 10%) according to the bible jesus takes what you offer and makes it sufficient, this is also the theory of my church. you give, if you wish, if not fine. BTW evangelist are about organized crime.

Originally posted by QuietSoul
I just lost my job, where's my reward for forking over 10% of my life's work to a church? Where's the big fat paycheck? Oh, thats right, there is none. Ironic. She told her pastor I lost my job when he asked for his $200 weekly paycheck, and his reward was "we'll pray for him".. yeah, thanks chump.

Dude, Dude, Dude, you forgot to read the fine print. You give them your money now and you get your reward when your dead.

How someone could be so gullible as to believe a line like that is beyond me. Guess what they offer you? A mansion on a hilltop, a crown and streets of gold. Now I can see where those things would have value in THIS world, but in the spiritual world?

I have to give this site credit though. To have a mantra of "Deny Ignorance" they are very tolerant of religion which is the biggest scam mankind has ever concocted.

As always, this is just my opinion.

Wupy

I was out of work for about a year, and every scrap of money I could gather I made sure to give my tithe, and I was glad to do it, beucase I knew God still kept me fed and gave me a roof over my head during my troubles, I could have stayed taht way and been content, but I challanged myself to do more, so I could give me. ANd when I finally did land a job, it was with great joy that I could GIVE more in thanks. Not to metion thanks that I will find salvation in heaven.

If you think it is such a great burden, don't give, you should give out of joy.

as I said earlier, msot of you here don't understand why people give. and that a responsible church won't spend it on limos, lay-z-boy pews, or the priests new mansion with gold course and olymic swimming pool. If they do it isn't a church of God, but a church of Man exploiting those in need

Interesting topic and one that has many facets. By the way before I begin my post just want to mention that I do go to church and have a positive experience.

I recently went to a Baptist wedding of a relative in the South. While I walked from my car to the church I noticed several odd things about the church. There were numerous buildings behind the church, several very large parking lots, and lots of land next store that looked like a construction project just began. Went inside the church, sat down, then noticed some other oddities. The sanctuary was relatively small in comparison to the total building, there were lots of lights, two big screen type presentation boards were mounted on the wall, and there were rug covered risers for the wedding party. In a way it felt like I was in a theater and not in a church. Then the preacher came out in one of the finest suits (I read GQ magazine so I know fine suits) and his voice was crisp, clear, and better than any public speaker I had ever met. And of course his hair was perfect. I started to get a funny feeling about this church.

At the reception, and mind you there was no spirits so I was in a foul mood, I asked my Uncle if he belonged to the church. He stated that he was lucky to find such a growing church. Asked him to explain and he mentioned that the preacher has a cable show on several nights a week. Ok that explains the theater like church and the fine clothes, speach, and hair. Then he mentioned that the sanctuary is too small to hold the church so they need numerous services a week and were in the process of building a new sanctuary. Now I was getting it. But the most interesting thing was explained next. I asked about all of the building and he said there was the typical SUnday School Classrooms and a School but what came out next surprised me. They had a recreation center with workout equipment and indoor pool, then they had a teen recreation center so the teens can hang out, then they had a small child recreation center, and then a family social center.

Then I got it. The church wanted you to spend a great deal of your time and life connected to the church. A great deal of your social life surrounded the church and fellow members. After all you could get all of these great benefits by belonging to the church and your tax deductable donations supported the lifestyle.

Then I asked my Uncle to remind me where his son met his bride. Oh yea it was at church. And both families were memebers of the church.

Boy do I know of that. We have a church here that is so large we call it, "Six flags over Jesus." Actually the pastor, Ronny Floyd has two large churches. The one in Springdale and the one in Bella Vista. He holds sunday morning services in each of them and his television show is broadcast from them as well.

When God becomes just another racket then there is no saving grace for those that perpetrate it.

Wupy

edit for spelling

[edit on 17-8-2005 by mrwupy]

Originally posted by Timcouchfanclub

Wouldn't all churches then be guilty of exploiting God? I think that would be a quick ticket to hell.

They are guilty of Pimping put Jesus .... They are guilty of prostituting the Bible, selling it out to best money making lie.

Well at least they haven't made Jesus Inc. yet.

Personally I think that most of your older churches are generally nice, but I see a lot of these new one's spreading around and I'm suprised they haven't started hiring celebrities to preach. Some of these churches are definatly business.

As for me, I don't attend church. If I want to talk to God I can do it wereever and whenever I have a quiet spot. I don't need a church to foster a realation with a God that they preach as omnipotent.

hey, cyberdude78, hope dont mind!

I'll start off with cyberdude78's signature:

''Ignorance is bliss, until the truth catches up with you.''

As long as the church members keep believing that they'll go to heaven, if they go to church and listen to what's being preached...there is no room for questioning.

By the time they figure out what's really going, it'll be too late to do anything about it...

The 10% interest rate came from a manly type of concept...which is similar as to getting a loan from a bank...where one never seem to be able to finish paying off that loan...


[edit on 17-8-2005 by mwen]

Hooray, my signature was relevant for once!

But like you said, it's going to be a bit late. But I suppose on the other hand it's not like we've heard anyone complaining about not getting what they deserve in the afterlife.

Personally I think that most of your older churches are generally nice, but I see a lot of these new one's spreading around and I'm suprised they haven't started hiring celebrities to preach. Some of these churches are definatly business.

Holy Roller churches...Can't Join them without $$$. I hope this dosen't offend anyone but I think that is what the scientology stuff is all about. After Katie Holmes and her hubby got it all over the news I checked it out ( thinking Katie Holmes digs scientology people ) To even know what the entire thing was about you had to pay to get the book. And then I am sure once you are a member they get a ton of money out of you. And they have some top celebrity names.

And Jesus is the product. with just the name it sells

Soon to get Holy Water will be like getting water from a Vending Machine. $1.50. I could see the church doing that and then saying making a rule that it is a sin to steal the Holy Water.

With all these false teachers all i need to remember is 2 Peter 2 and feel pity for them

like a dog that returns to eat its vomit

[edit on 8/18/2005 by Jehosephat]

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

Originally posted by Timcouchfanclub
They aren't exactly Big Business...If so where is the Mercedes Benzs the priest drives or why didn't Xzibit come in and Pimp my Alter.

hhmmm... thats becausee they have private jets and Church Limos... and they dont pimp X-Zibit... its more like alter boys.

[edit on 17-8-2005 by BaastetNoir]

That has to be the funniest thing I've read on this site this month.

Helllooooo

Can anyone say 'Babylon' ??!?!?

I typically don't like to cut & paste, but this is entirely appropriate since I'd made a very similar thread some time ago that got no play:

"The money grubbin' church..." is apparently something I'm not a part of, yet there's that whole conspiracy that that's what churches are. I know I know, you don't believe me and how can you take my word? After all, aren't I biased? I am biased, but by facts, knowing numbers don't lie. Lemme show you:

Excerpt from church bulletin. You know, the one everyone gets when they walk into the door:

Operating Fund
...............................................Budgeted............Actual.............Over/-Under

2005 YTD Income...................$645,258...........$593,333..........-$49,025
2005 YTD Expenses...............$540,634...........$456,389..........-$84,244
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Net Surplus/(Deficit)..............$101,625...........$136,844............$35,219


Annual Budgeted Expenses.........................................................$1,370,349
Monthly Offerings Needed to Meet Annual Budgeted Expenses..$114,196
Last Month's Offering...................................................................$109,649
Current Cash Balance (Cash in Bank)..........................................$ 94,921

Decon's Fund
Actual
2005 YTD Income...........................$15,530
2005 YTD Expenses.......................$27,758
-------------------------------------------------------
Net Surplus/-Deficit.......................-$12,228

Current Cash Balance (Cash in Bank)..$5,538


"Building From our Hearts" Campaign

Current Balance on Mortgage.................$502,137
Giving towards Mortgage 2005 YTD............$6,659


Parking Lot Reconstruction Pledges

Total Amount Received from pledges.........$54,950
Total Amount Pledged................................$67,055
----------------------------------------------------------------
Net Surplus/-Deficit...................................-$12,105

Where do these funds go? Food for the needy (called the Salt and Light Ministry), help for struggling single mothers, missions for a school in the Dominican Republic, and so on and so on...

And here's my favorite number:

Total amount of money the church has asked me to give: $0.00

Jesus' response (you know that guy we're always reading about in church) to money as recorded in Matthew 22:20 - and he asked them "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Ceasar's", they replied. Then he said to them "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

If that's the case, why do Christians give to a church that asks for no money?

Well, Jesus had a conversation with a rich ruler in Matthew 18:22 who had kept the commandments - When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God. Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?" Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

So who's behind the conspiracy?

Jesus again Matthew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."

It sounds to me, the servants of money have coalesced to 'demonize' the practice of giving to a church to friends, and family as demonstrated by threads on ATS. The practice of money-god servers include but are not limited to accusation, negativity and sensationalism of low frequency human error. Why then attack an entity that asks for nothing? Because we may feel guilt by going and not giving. Why do we feel guilt? Maybe we're aware of who we really serve.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.
www.belowtopsecret.com...


[edit on 19-8-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God




Net Surplus/(Deficit)..............$101,625...........$136,844............$35,219


Annual Budgeted Expenses.........................................................$1,370,349
Monthly Offerings Needed to Meet Annual Budgeted Expenses..$114,196
Last Month's Offering...................................................................$109,649
Current Cash Balance (Cash in Bank)..........................................$ 94,921


Current Cash Balance (Cash in Bank)..$5,538


"Building From our Hearts" Campaign

Current Balance on Mortgage.................$502,137
Giving towards Mortgage 2005 YTD............$6,659


Parking Lot Reconstruction Pledges

Total Amount Received from pledges.........$54,950
Total Amount Pledged................................$67,055
----------------------------------------------------------------
Net Surplus/-Deficit...................................-$12,105

That's all fine and good--BUT

Does God need a parking lot? Does God require a specific building for His people to gather in?

The first ones met in their own homes. That, in itself, is a huge offering members can make! Maybe a private home is not big enough. That's one way of weeding out those (and there are such) that 'go to church' just to go to church. Maybe that doesn't seem practical from a human perspective--but I daresay an appointed building doesn't really qualify as 'practical' in God's perspective. Just venturing there.

That's $101,625 a year, instead of $35,219, that could go straight to the community! People are poor and struggling, wondering if there is a God that even cares--and the ones who feel sure there is a God are keeping Him to themselves in their carpeted, climate-controlled, sound-system equipped 'sanctuary.'

And what do you do in that 'sanctuary?' Learn about God, give some cash for someone else to mail or distribute somehow so that you can feel you've 'given to God?' What have you given to God? What have you given to others in the name of God?

This is where the 'hearers of the law' vs. 'doers of the law' comes in. Where the rubber meets the road. What good is all this theological education every Sunday (which isn't even God's appointed day to Honor Him, no matter how you look at it--that's man's day, not God's) do for your 'reward?' Why not get out there, instead of listening to your salaried preacher tell you what doesn't hurt too bad, and help the widows and orphans?? Paint the old lady's house down the street---take the kids who don't have anything to the park and play ball, all the time while doing these things, quietly yet obviously proclaiming you do your acts of kindness of selflessness in the name of the Living God--the God who loves everyone???

It is business--and it's not God's business. You may think what I say is nonsense, but I know it is right--not according to me, but according to God. The day will come that you will know it's true. Think about it before then.

BTW--where does 'give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's' apply?

Most churches enjoy tax-exempt status. Is Ceasar giving his to God?