Meier Case on C2C

Photo gallery still works, see New Physical Evidence for seven-fingered prints. Bottom line: It's not their job to "save" us, it's ours. If we're too damn stupid to do the necessary thinking I guess we get exactly what they've warned us that WE are bringing about.

Michael,

I'm not closed minded , but I'm not ready to express judgment , nor am I in any position to express judgment.

But , Michael, how do the Plejaren, fit into the big picture?

That is the 64 million dollar question in my eye's.

Keep in mind I have seen something that I can positively connect to other incidents.

>'give us a heads up about the recent Tsunami for example…'

Numerous people were provided with exactly that... The words deaf, dumb and blind seem to come to mind.

(Is it my imagination... It would seem all posts in ATS are worth 1 point a piece?)

[edit on 18-8-2005 by golemina]

The Plejaren claim that their forefathers were, in many cases, the gods of our antiquity who screwed things up by messing with the primitive, evolving humans here and setting the enslaving religions in motion. They say that they have a self-obligated mission to try to help us to help ourselves out of the delusion and insanity to which their forefathers (quite possibly some of them in previous incarcerations (or is it incarnations?) contributed. That's the short version.

The Plejaren claim that their forefathers were, in many cases, the gods of our antiquity who screwed things up by messing with the primitive, evolving humans here and setting the enslaving religions in motion.

There you go...according to "them" it's THEIR screwup. So, what's with the absentee parent bit? As Morzikagu (???) said, why not go more public for over 50 years, if they truly want to set things right? Why? Because it's all malarkey.... Mind you, it's an opinion, but one supported by the hokey photos, videos, and story offered by Meier.



[edit on 19-8-2005 by Gazrok]

I do appreciate the presence of thoughtful people who, having plenty to research in the case themselves now, are more interested in finding out the truth than making glib and flippant comments.

I'm sure it has also occurred to some people that it's extremely rare, if not unheard of, for there to be a case (still ongoing for 63 years, no less) that has sufficient evidence, information and research to even warrant a four-hour interview, which can only explore the proverbial tip of the iceberg anyhow. For me, I've been amazed to find that neither the information nor the principles in the case suffer from the self-contradictory, step all over yourself hallmarks of hoaxes and frauds; the same question I asked of Meier a year later elicits the same answer as it did when I originally asked it a year before.

One has a limited amount of time in one's life. Therefore, we either choose to use it wisely and to pursue the truth or we can fritter it away with laziness or misplaced cleverness, thinking that we won't later regret not just the missed opportunities but, especially, the deliberate avoidance of the truth and, even worse, the deliberate attempts to mislead others away from finding it out for themselves.

Gaz-there's always going to be an excuse, there always is.

-The Asket photos were found fake because the MiB altered or replaced them...Meier just forgot.

-The tree seen in many films and photos doesnt exist because Semjase "eliminated them (it)

-The metal sample cant be examined by anyone else because it was "lost" or "stolen".

-The photos and film cant be examined by anyone because "none exist", most were "lost or stolen".

-"Public records" of prophecies are never scanned and/or backed up by the masses of humanity who own them. If these predictions were made so long before their occurrance, where are they? Most are "found" after the event happens. I have never heard of one being in a widely publicized book.

-A recent attempt to verify one of the researcher's bragged on achievements has been met with no cooperation by Mr. Horn, when asked if he could supply this data in specific nature to verify one of his most often stated "facts", his answer was "why?" This, after Horn expects anyone with a dissenting view to back up claims or statements to a near absurd degree.

and my favorite:

-The "beamships" when being filmed "wobble" as if on a tether, but this is explained as "only for demonstration", or is covered by the "plausible deniability" (an idea setting the notion that a real alien civilization would make themselves appear both real, yet leave a "way out" for those who refuse to accept the reality. In essence, they *make* themselves appear to be a model on a tether...but it's actually real.) theory...which leaves no room for any debate whatsoever. According to the major supporters of this case, it's the end all excuse. This covers everything from the film and photos to the metal, to the missing data, to the mssing tree, to the missed "predictions". If we were to actually accept this idea, or theory, then any pie plate ever filmed as a UFO, could very well be real...even when you can see the string holding it up.

When all else fails, it resorts to a personal level. No matter who you are, youre not competant enough, youre not experienced, you've altered the data in post analysis, or your a liar.

So where to go? It's sewed up tight with a bow. Like I've said before, I have no issue with the message Meier put out, we need to start taking care of our planet, we need to stop killing eachother, and we as a planet need to stop living for the moment.

You can only plug away as best you can in the case, to try and see whats true and whats not.

Obtain a (used) copy of And Yet They Fly (2001), as well as copies of Message from the Pleiades Vols. 1-4 (Stevens). Other people, including I, have and they find the (subsequently fulfilled) propheices/predictions in them quite easily. If you REALLY want to examine physical evidence for yourself, do what I did, arrange to go to Switzerland and examine the seven-fingered handprints...still waiting.

To decline is to offer excuses.

Hello Flinx,

You might want to read this report ( if you don't know it already) and see what you think of it :

www.iigwest.com...

Keep in mind that i am supporting some of the things Mr.Meier says,but i try not to forget my own logic

Originally posted by 8Michael12
Obtain a (used) copy of And Yet They Fly (2001), as well as copies of Message from the Pleiades Vols. 1-4 (Stevens). Other people, including I, have and they find the (subsequently fulfilled) propheices/predictions in them quite easily. If you REALLY want to examine physical evidence for yourself, do what I did, arrange to go to Switzerland and examine the seven-fingered handprints...still waiting.

To decline is to offer excuses.

I doubt I'll be going to the Swiss countryside anytime soon to see fingerprints on a hood that could have easily been made with etching creme and a normal hand.

But, I'll make a prediction. When the hood is done with "analysis" (if it ever is) and it's "report" published making all sorts of extraterrestrial conclusions, the hood will dissapear or be destroyed, or the fingerprints will vanish. The hood will never be studied by independant sources, nor will anyone else be able to study it. It will never be validated, most likely only pictures will remain.

Years ago when I first got interested in this case I was extremely optimistic, the more I see and learn for myself, the less so I am.

Let's see, Jeff says that he isn't going to go and examine for hhimself the very thing he's been whining about, i.e. first hand evidence but in the same breath tells us that he knows how and by what means it was made!!! Then he goes on to suggest that no analysis will ever be made - even though he's been invited to participate in it!!! And then he further PREDICTS what will happen to it!!! He obviously doesn't consider himself to be one of the independent sources - that he says will never study it!!!

And do I need to point out that he decliend to obtain the books that would show that he's simply wrong about his other assumption?

He is right however about the "less he learns for himself" part. Does anybody wonder why now?

WOW!!!

I wanna make sure everyone reads very carefully what Mr. Horn just wrote, because it's a tactic often used by proponents of this case. It's a common word-trap in an effort to make mountains out of comments you may make or may never have made.

I said, the fingerprints "could just have easily" been made, etc. I make no judgement, I merely offer the idea that such data is not hard to come up with.

Again, for the 100th time, stop putting a final word to my simple comments, much like was done in the "Jeff has already ruled out a model" statement.

I make my summarization about post analysis based on what exactly has *already happened in this case*, in *every* single piece.

I dont decline any books, I dont know where he got that one.

And in what capacity am I to participate in the fingerprint investigation? I have not refused to do so, but I am not any expert on organic fingerprints, nor anatomy as it applies to such analysis. High res photos of the prints? Might be able to help, and as usual my offer to look at anything first hand is always open. However, no one is yet to take me up on any.

You also misquote, again. The "more I learn"...not the "less I learn".

I'm simply following the common thread that has shown itself thoughout the case. My offer to do image work on the fingerprints stands, but as yet no offer has been accepted.

Go lay the trap for someone who'll step in it. I can read, and I know what I write.





[edit on 19-8-2005 by jritzmann]

[edit on 19-8-2005 by jritzmann]

I'd be more curious as to why these seven fingered aliens have five fingers in their photos...

Fly to Switzerland to see some handprints? You're kidding right? That's like automatically accepting bigfoot based on castings of footprints. For one thing, extra digits aren't exactly unheard of. Regular Earthlings have had six or more digits in history. Such prints would prove nothing. Fly to Switzerland to tag along with Billy on one of these UFO joyrides and meet the aliens? Now sure, that I'd by a ticket to do...but wait, according to Billy, I wouldn't be "pure" enough to meet them.... How convenient....

Could anyone provide a link where these seven fingered prints can be seen ?

Sure, go to www.theyfly.com, click on New Physical Evidence link on homepage, click on New Physical Evidence linkin the June Newsletter and click on the link to the photographs. Let me know if you have any trouble finding the photos.

Got them.Thank You Mr.Horn.Part of my work is automation and robotics for automotive industry.I know from paint suppliers that they have the means to see exactly how and what affects their finish ( in this particular case will be the clearcoat,the "shiny" stuff on which the prints were made).I will visit your site from time to time to see if a credible report will be released on the study of these prints.A chemistry specialist should be involved here as well among others ( just my opinion).

Regardless of opinions on the Meier case, I would like to thank Mr. Horn for sharing this new information with us.

Personally, I see no reason one couldn't use a glove, a corrosive substance, make a handprint, and in doing so reposition 2 fingers (specifically the index and the ring finger...go on try it yourself) to make the 7 finger print....

But, I applaud the intelligence and politeness Michael has shown in his visits here. I may disagree with his position, but

A note of both thanks and you're welcome to Bursuc and Gazroc. Let me add some details here to clarify what I have seen close up, with my nose practically on the hood itself. The papillary lines are extremely clear with NO smudging, bleeding, etc. The prints, as you can see, also include a couple of forearm impressions up to the elbow area. The glove idea seems totally implausible because of the intricacy and clarity of the lines.

In addition to a chemist, which is a great idea, I would like to see an anatomical scientist examine the prints because there are certain torques, angles, dynamics, what have you, to real prints, i.e. the angles of the fingerprints in relation to the palm, etc. To merely artificially transfer some prints to the surface (by some process that I am unfamiliar with) also seems unlikely since in this case they have lasted through an entire year of harsh Swiss weather.

Add to these considerations that they appeared overnight and...the plot thickens. I can't imagine anyone risking doing such a thing in the dark (if they had used lights the residents would have detected them!) only to find that they made a mess of it in the morning and have, thereby, discredited Meier and the case. And, the question would remain as to who would or could attempt such a delicate job under those conditions. We'd have to rule Meier out, despite crediting/accusing him of some pretty fancy stuff...I don't think so. And the other people that I know who live on the property are not exactly what you'd call delicate fine artist types. We're talking tractors, diesel, farming, etc.

So this is really worthy of study, which Meier already agreed to, if competent, qualified persons wish to undertake it. Of course, the more time that passes the more the prints may be compromised but, as far as I know, they're still there.

One or two other things. I've not pointed it out before but it wasn't Meier that was attempting to draw attention to all of the prophetic information, espcially the various world events that occurred like earthqaukes, volcanic eruptions, etc. He certainly was attempting to inform about the message of the Plejaren and aspects of the ancient propheicies but even this wasn't covered very much in the books by Genesis III or Stevens. If anyone's to "blame", it could be me for trying to shift the focus away from the UFOs as the most important stuff and onto the information that I was finding was corroborating Meier's earlier published work. Since I had the Contact Reports from the period of 1975-1p78 in my possession in 1986, and started to see the "new" discoveries in newspapers, etc. that were ALREADY in the transcripts, this is what got me focused on researching this area of the case.

Lastly, there's been some question as to whether I lied re the information that Marcel Vogel had 32 patents. Since I had compiled that info some time ago I actually forgot where I got it from, even though it says so right at the header of the page! It came from "An Open Letter To The UFO Community", by Gary Kinder and it's also on page 223 in the paperback book edition his book of Light Years. In the last paragraph, in direct reference to Marcel Vogel, he states, "The holder of thirty-two patents, he had worked for IBM for twenty-two years..." Kinder assures us that all of the information was vetted by his sending a transcript for approval or correction by each of the people he interviewed.

Just to, hopefully, clear up the issue that I was reporting (not creating) information from a source that had taken some pains to be sure that he was accurate in his book.

Michael ,

If there is an Alien palm print wouldn't there be skin cells , or genetic material worth testing?

Alien DNA would be proof positive!

Has anyone considered this possibility?

Edit: And thanks Michael for answering questions!

[edit on 19-8-2005 by lost_shaman]

Glad to oblige. If there was genetic material, and there probably was considering the whole mess that they left on the car hood (and fender), it's certainly gone after a year in the Swiss summer, winter and now summer again. But the way the prints are etched into the paint finish would surely fascinate the kind of scientists we've talked about here. I'm only sorry that the photos aren't better but I think you can still get an idea.