New Congress warning on nuclear EMP threat

This isn't really new, and I originally ran acrossed it on World Net Daily which has a knack for blowing things out of purportion.. but I found a transcript of the actual meeting between Rep. Roscoe Bartlet before the congress committee on June 9, 2005..

So here's a link to the transcript.. it's an awesome read..

Transcript

The report is loaded with all kinds of neat information, past and present..

Here's a small exerpt:

Let me show a chart here that shows the effects of this bomb exploding over the United States, and this shows a single weapon. This shows a single weapon detonated at the northwest corner of Iowa, and it shows it at about 600 kilometers high, and this would blanket all of the United States. And the concentric circles here, not true circles because there is a little distortion of the electrical fields by the magnetic waves around the Earth, but these represent the intensity of the field that is produced by this. At the center we can see it is 100 percent. But even out at the margins of our country, it is down to 50 percent.

Now, a little later I will show a statement from some Russian generals that were reviewed by the people who put together this report, and they said that the Russians had developed weapons that produced 200 kilovolts per meter. Remember, the effects in Hawaii were judged to be the result of five kilovolts per meter. So this is a force about 200 times higher. The Russian generals said that they believed that to be several times higher than the hardening that we had provided for our military platforms that they could resist EMP.

When you have a weak underbelly, you are inviting attack there. They are going to attack at the weakest link, and our infrastructure complexity is certainly our weakest link. The Department of Homeland Security needs to identify critical infrastructures. What do we need to protect first?

``Chinese military writings described EMP as the key to victory and described scenarios where EMP is used against U.S. aircraft carriers in the conflict over Taiwan.''

Even some stuff about Iran:

Iran has conducted tests with its Shahab-3 missile that have been described as failures by the Western media because the missiles did not complete their ballistic trajectories, but were deliberately exploded at high altitude. This, of course, would be exactly what you would want to do if you were going to use an EMP weapon.

Today we are very much concerned, Mr. Speaker, about asymmetric weapons. We are a big, powerful country. Nobody can contend with us
shoulder-to-shoulder, face-to-face. So all of our potential adversaries are looking for what we refer to as asymmetric weapons. That is a weapon that overcomes our superior capabilities. There is no asymmetric weapon that has anywhere near the potential of EMP.

Iran described these tests as successful. We said they were a failure because they blew up in flight. They described them as successful. Of course, they would be, if Iran's intent was practicing for an EMP attack.

And this, I didn't know...

I might state that an early use of EMP is a common occurrence in Russia and Chinese war games.

[edit on 8/13/2005 by QuietSoul]

Very interesting....

I always wondered whether EMP would be used as a weapon in the event of a war. With the recent stuff I've heard about Iran, if there were to be a future war with Iran, I wonder if EMP would be used?, either by one or both sides, a possibly devastating weapon if used correctly in the right places.

quote: Let me show a chart here that shows the effects of this bomb exploding over the United States, and this shows a single weapon. This shows a single weapon detonated at the northwest corner of Iowa, and it shows it at about 600 kilometers high, and this would blanket all of the United States.

Thats sort of worrying. I only thought EMP had an effective range upto about 100miles.

Vorta

Here's the terrorist spin.. I figured it was in the speech somewhere, but it was further down, about 3 pages (40minutes into the speech)

Terrorists could steal, purchase, or be provided a nuclear weapon and
perform an EMP attack against the United States simply by launching a primitive Scud missile off a freighter near our shores. We do not need to be thinking about missiles coming over the Pole. There are thousands of ships out there, particularly in the North Atlantic shipping lanes, and any one of them could have a Scud missile on board.

Scud missiles can be purchased on the world market today for less than $100,000. Al Qaeda is estimated to own about 80 freighters, so all they need, Mr. Speaker, is $100,000, which I am sure they can get, for the missile and a crude nuclear weapon.

N.Korea...

In 2004, the EMP Commission met with very senior Russian officers, and we showed that on the sign. They warned that the knowledge and technology to develop what they called super EMP weapons had been transferred to North Korea and that North Korea could probably develop these weapons in the near future, within a few years. The Russian officers said that the threat that would be posed to global security by a North Korean armed with super EMP weapons was, in their view, and I am sure, Mr. Speaker, in your view and mine, unacceptable.

[edit on 8/13/2005 by QuietSoul]

The US military has been aware of EMP pulses since some nuclear tests over Hawaii wiped out the power plants. I don't remember when these test were performed but I want to say before 1960.

Ever since the US military has been working EMP Hardening. This will help stop the effects of an EMP Pulse.
Almost everything in the military that needs EMP Hardening has been hardened. That is why allot of military sensitive items are underground.

You can do a Google search for EMP Hardening and learn more than I could ever tell. EMP would no longer be a big issue for the US military. However, the US civilian population would be devastated when their computers, TVs, radios, cell phones, and cars quit working!

Actually, the entire reason Roscoe Bartlet was addressing the commision is because the military STOPPED hardening stuff.

Operation Starfish in 1962 was the Hawaii testing btw, he mentions it in his presentation.. and it wasnt Hawaii, it was 800miles away from Hawaii and it only knocked out street lights in Hawaii.

Anyhow, here's some quotes from the transcript:

It would disrupt our military forces and our ability to project military power. For the last decade, Mr. Speaker, we have been waiving hardening on essentially all of our military platforms because it costs maybe as little as 1 percent, maybe like 5 percent more to harden. It can be done. That is the good news story. If you do not harden, you can get 5 percent more weapons systems. And since we have had so little money during those years, the Pentagon opted to run this risk. With terrorists about, I think that is probably a risk we do not want to continue to run.

The Russian generals said that they believed that to be several times higher than the hardening that we had provided for our military platforms that they could resist EMP.

And uhm, the last I checked, the entire infrastructure of the United States doesnt revolve around the Military...

So our bomb's will be safe.. big whoopie..

What this would do is to produce a society in which the only person you could talk to was the person next to you, unless you happened to be a ham operator with a vacuum tube set, which, by the way, is 1 million times less susceptible to EMP than your present equipment that the hams use. And the only way you could get anywhere was to walk, because, you see, if the pulse is intense enough, it turns off all the computers in your car. There will be no electricity, so even if the car ran, you could not get gas.

But hey, the military would be A-Okay! .. sorta..

That would be a smart move by China...To use a EMP to virtually shut down our carriers. This seems like an excellant defensive weapon.

i say defensive because something that can cause this much damage (in the trillions of dollars) would be considered a 'big deal'. Like: if Iran of North Korea launched a missile at the US and had it set to blow up above the US. The US would view it as a nuclear warhead, and in response, would launch a massive wave of nuclear missiles at Iran, devestating the enitre country, leaving it all in radioactive rubble. We will launch our missiles before it reaches our air-space, so even if there weapon is successful on going off, and takes our a large chunk of the US's electronic components with it, what usefull purpose could that possibly serve?

Very interesting indeed, and I was laughed at for presenting this topic via WND just a few weeks ago....

ATS: Iran plans to knock out U.S. with 1 nuclear bomb with electro-magnetic pulse >>


I think we should take it seriously and the fact that they were exploding test missiles at high altitude is even more worrisome. The peace nicks in here can whine and bitch all they want, but we need to be ready and hopefully we can remove the threat before we see if it works or not.


Thanks, very GOOD post.

Originally posted by MurcielagoWe will launch our missiles before it reaches our air-space, so even if there weapon is successful on going off, and takes our a large chunk of the US's electronic components with it, what usefull purpose could that possibly serve?

And if it is launched off a cargo ship, whom do we launch against? Its the terrorist that wants to destroy the US economic might and the will of the people that is the threat, not North Korea or Iran, but alas, the former sure wouldn't mind helping someone else do it now would they?



[edit on 14-8-2005 by edsinger]

As a direct witness to the Johnston Island test as it was cited from the initial link about Congressional discussions, let me share some insights from that experience.

The Hawaii public was alerted that the atmosphere would act as a sufficient lens to block any problems of vision when people viewed the test. I do remember watching for it in a certain section of sky as it was covered on the radio, there were several runs that did not work. Each of those times over some weeks I watched for it and saw nothing. The final time was awesome, since the first flash was bright but not overpowering whiteness spreading out then turning green. I was very impressed at the age of 13 and while President Kennedy was in office as a catholic. My school was St. Patricks a Catholic parochial school, so those times were certainly a great feeling personally. It was a pleasure to hear President Kennedy speak. People do not realize today how a President can be a substantive inspiration as there was more hope for ordinary people than there is today. You felt as though you were learning something new and vibrant. Perhaps politics was in fact always previously and thereafter by comparison somewhat lacking in depth. Of course latter historical content is tainted by the prolonged cover story, a most never resolved position, one of frustration on real change.

But the direct witnessing of a nuclear test was a rare event as once again, it did not require shielding of the eyes. I cannot forget it when it is once again brought to memory. What I remember was the EMP was a very real eventuality, considering that some street lights burnt out that night, however the distance and altitude of the test was extensive moreso than the scenario recently delved in Congress over Iowa as an example.

Well thanks ATS for bringing that interesting memory to the surface again.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by SkipShipman]

Originally posted by edsinger
I think we should take it seriously and the fact that they were exploding test missiles at high altitude is even more worrisome.

No it isn't. It's standard practice for many missile tests if you don't know exactly where it will land. Further, even the V-2 in WW2 was already capable of both carrying nuclear warheads and high altitude detonations. That was 1940s technologies which Iran already has for years. The articles on WND are simply speculative "what if" scenarios and twisting it as if this technology is something special and new and that exploding it at high altitudes was the goal from the start of Iran, which is pure speculation and most likely rubbish.

[edit on 14-8-2005 by Simon666]

SO if EMP weps are used the enemy must know that when OUR subs loaded with nukes try to make contact and dont get a reply that they will launch thier nukes at enemy targets?? which makes EMP fairly useless as a winable weapon in a war, im also pretty sure nuke subs probably carry EMP missiles too seems logical.

Originally posted by blobby
SO if EMP weps are used the enemy must know that when OUR subs loaded with nukes try to make contact and dont get a reply that they will launch thier nukes at enemy targets?? which makes EMP fairly useless as a winable weapon in a war, im also pretty sure nuke subs probably carry EMP missiles too seems logical.

The idea is that Iran for example would not be that logical, as fundamentalists seem to be. My personal opinion however is that the top officials are smart enough to never go that far, but that doesn't take away the risk of some lower level commanders on his own handing a nuke over to terrorists, which is although probably very low, not low enough so I could live comfortably assured with it.

quiet soul that was an awesome post! great find bro

regards,

the fanatical

Originally posted by Simon666

Originally posted by blobby
SO if EMP weps are used the enemy must know that when OUR subs loaded with nukes try to make contact and dont get a reply that they will launch thier nukes at enemy targets?? which makes EMP fairly useless as a winable weapon in a war, im also pretty sure nuke subs probably carry EMP missiles too seems logical.

The idea is that Iran for example would not be that logical, as fundamentalists seem to be. My personal opinion however is that the top officials are smart enough to never go that far, but that doesn't take away the risk of some lower level commanders on his own handing a nuke over to terrorists, which is although probably very low, not low enough so I could live comfortably assured with it.

I just want to note that Iran was only mentioned very briefly in the transcript.. I think my quotes above was everything. Among others, Taiwan, Israel, Egypt, India, Pakistan, Iran, N.Korea and Russia were also mentioned as potential threats.

Supposivly, according to unnamed Russian Generals: Pakistan, China, and some Russians have supplied N.Korea with a "200 kilovolts per meter" EMP plans. Which, the russians claim, would even break our best hardening used in the military today

Russian, Chinese, and Pakistani scientists are working in North Korea and could enable that country to develop an EMP weapon in the near future. Now, this is not what the commission said; this is what the commission reported the Russian generals to have said.

The Russian generals said that they believed that to be several times higher than the hardening that we had provided for our military platforms that they could resist EMP.

And here's a scary quote from 1999 mentioned in the transcript..

One of the members of the Russian Duma was Vladimir Lukin, who as
well known to this country because he was the ambassador here at the end of Bush I and the beginning of the Clinton administration. At that time he was a very senior member of the Russian Duma. He was very angry and sat for 2 days in that hotel room with his arms crossed looking at the ceiling. We had not early asked the Russians for help and they felt offended about that, and the statement he made expressing that sentiment was that ``you spit on us. Now why should we help you?'' And then he made a statement that stunned us. The leader of that delegation was the gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. *Weldon*), who speaks and understands some Russian. And when Vladimir Lukin was speaking, he turned to me and he said, ``Did you hear what he said?'' Of course I heard what he said, but I did not understand it because I
do not understand Russian.

But then it was translated, and this is what he said: ``If we really wanted to hurt you with no fear of retaliation, we would launch an SLBM,'' which if it was launched in a submarine at sea, we really would not know for certain where it came from. ``We would launch an SLBM, we would detonate a nuclear weapon high above your country, and we would shut down your power grid and your communications for 6 months or so.''

The third-ranking communist was there in the country. His name is Alexander Shurbanov, and he smiled and said, ``And if one weapon would not do it, we have some spares.'' I think the number of those spares now is something like 6,000 weapons.

Please, I ask you, don't turn this into another "Iran is gonna blow up the USofA" thread. It's much bigger then just Iran..

Originally posted by QuietSoul

Please, I ask you, don't turn this into another "Iran is gonna blow up the USofA" thread. It's much bigger then just Iran..

Oh I agree and I would wager that it is less likely to be Iran, but would Iran 'help' and OBL get the needed technology? Look this is a weakness and to think your enemy will not hit you there is foolishness.

But don't look to the peace nicks for any advice except to either appease or send some sternly worded memo's. Its spooky alright but be glad that those with the power understand these risks and you can bet your arse that the US has informed 'off' the record that the price would be extremely steep.......extremely.