Records show Iraq was buying forbidden U.S. high-tech goods

By Donna Leinwand and Jim Michaels, USA TODAY
U.S. investigators examining bank and government records here say they have unearthed evidence that high-tech hardware manufactured by at least 30 U.S. companies was sold to Iraq in violation of United Nations sanctions and U.S. Customs regulations.

Officials are trying to determine whether any of those companies knowingly violated the sanctions and U.S. Customs laws � or unwittingly sold the goods, including computers, laboratory equipment and aircraft parts, to third parties who then dealt with Saddam Hussein's regime. Investigators declined to name the U.S. companies.

The evidence may confirm the United States' long-standing accusation that Saddam violated the U.N. sanctions, which sought to isolate and punish his regime for its invasion of Kuwait in 1990, its persecution of Shiite Muslims and ethnic Kurds and its efforts to obtain weapons of mass destruction.

USA TODAY

I would like to see the list of the US companies that supplied this equipment and I hope they are heavily investigated to determine if they were providing them direct or if Iraq was infact obtaining them through third party sources.

The article mentions that Iraq was paying almost 3 times what they were worth but that doesn't explain anything. That could mean they were indeed acquiring these goods through a third party, therefore more hands involved would cost more money. It could also just be that if they were buying direct that the companies knew it was illegal and was charging so much for their risk. Have to keep an eye on this story.

Very interesting. And here we thought it was the Russians. gah.

The problem post saddam is knowing who and what to believe any more. This could easily be damage control and spin to prop up a leadership under attack. Just because someone says it now does not mean it is true.

Isn't that sad that cynicism is the best way to treat the news media... Thanks George ....

Doesnt really suprise me that there are certain compaines wil supple anyone with any sort of weapons that they can, as long as they make the money they obviously dont care about Customs or the UN either.

I expect there's a few UK companies that have and still are making money out there as well, legal or illegal doesnt matter to them does it?



blackwidow

I'm not the least bit surprised.
Business is business, even if it means disregarding government or international sanctions and laws.
I think all the "major" players involved with this situation or in the war in/with Iraq had done the samething.
The US companies, Russia, France, Germany, UK, and most likely a few others.
Netchicken address's an issue here but then again, that same principle that he is talking about being applied to the media and such can be simply applied to any sort of media, TV news, articles, etc. dealing with anything....just not Iraq. The 'truth', as applied to any type news/media or historical accounting, is becoming something much desired. There are too many 'smoke screens' being used to hide what is really going on.
Often times to even get the basic facts of a media event, one has to read two, three, four sources just to get a somewhat balanced perspective on what might be the 'truth.'
Sad really....but it seems to be the trend....I have often wondered how far back has this 'trend' really been utilized...?

regards
seekerof

Russia sold Iran equipment for advanced uranium enrichment,hmm,maybe the cold war never really ended.It begins to look to me that Russia never really went as bankrupt as most were led to believe either.
I wonder when this is all going to come to a head?.
www.debka.com...

Well actually There is more money and resources in Russian than there is in US, it is just that these are owned and used by very small group of people.. and are not used for "common good".. 10% of rich russians own 90% of it all..

Some folks at US CIA and NSA actually belive that this "democrazy" thing in Russia is just a big hoax.. and think that Communist or Totalitarian system could return anyday..

[Edited on 29-8-2003 by FULCRUM]

here's an oldie but a goody...

Russia, Iraq Plan Deal to Bolster Ties
Economic Pact May Complicate U.S. Action Against Baghdad

yes i can see why russia was agaisnt us going in....40 BILLION DOLLAR pact....lots to lose eh putin?

here's another one....

Iraq Still Seen Favoring Russia in UN Oil Sales

hmmm yet another link between russia and iraq....

here's an interesting tidbit...

Evidence Suggests Illicit Russia-Iraq Deal

and a qoute from it...

United Nations inspectors in Iraq last fall uncovered what they considered highly unsettling evidence of a 1995 agreement by the Russian government to sell Iraq sophisticated fermentation equipment that could be used to develop biological weapons, according to sources.

hmmm interesting indeed!

Russia's newest tie to Iraq

another link about russia 40 billion dollar pact with iraq....also mentions other things...like 200 turssian companies working in iraq....wow!

"We have the money," Mr. Khalaf told Vremya Novostei, noting that Iraq earns billions each year from oil sales, even under UN sanctions. "We give Russians full priority. Over 200 Russian companies are now working in our country."

hmmm VERY interesting isnt it?

here's a recent link...

Putin lifts sanctions against Iraq


mentions something about oil....looks like russia will be getting more of it... (i thought WE went there for oil....looks like russia is getting it doesnt it???)

Russia-Iraq Germ Connection?

Lastly, the UN?s discovery of the confidential document has provoked concern that Russia?s recent diplomatic drive to help defuse the latest crisis over weapons inspections may be motivated by self-interest and not so much by the desire to avoid a crisis in Iraq.

old but....history is often forgotten so here's a refresher....self interest? russia? nay! they were only thinking of the innocent iraqis when they protested this war! right?!?!?!


i found page after page of this stuff.

looks like EVERYONE has their hands in the cookie jar...

from may of 2001.....UN Iraq Draft May Be Delayed;
France Has New Ideas

Among other measures, France also wants the $3 billion worth of contracts for Iraq that the United States has blocked released once a new resolution on the oil-for-food programme is adopted. That program, which regulates oil sales from and goods going to Baghdad, was meant to ease the impact of sanctions, imposed when Iraq invaded Kuwait in August 1990. The oil-for-food plan requires proceeds from Iraqi oil sales to be put in a UN escrow fund out of which suppliers for goods imported to Iraq are paid.

looks like france had their hand in the cookie jar as well.

seems self interest is ok for some but not others...how odd!

also mentions russia...


France's 'ethical' resistance a matter of self-interest

and there's another one.

i am not blaming any one particluar person comapny or country however i am establishing a history here for all to see that the biggest town cryers against this war were doing a hell of a lot business with iraq and had a lot to lose from us going in.

personally i think its more about business in general than JUST oil or sales of this or that.

cut throat business dealings at its worst...

here's another link....

German businessmen on trial for Iraq arms sales

now a german connection.

now i know what you're thinking, its not a german government sale. you're, its not.

however if we're going to finger point over who has been making a profit with blood money lets show it all shall we??? expose all those who make their money at the expense of other people's lives.



so far all im doing is a google search on "russia iraq sales" "france iraq sales" "germany iraq sales". i'm sure you type in any country and iraq sales you'll get all kinds of interesting articles popping up in droves.

there are far too many people making money over iraq pre and post US invasion.

noone's hands are clean!!!

That 90% control by 10% of the population is a trademark thing that sez New World Odor,looks like thay have control of Russia already if that is the case.
The Communist phenomenon has just popped up in south america,I don't remember which country it was at the moment,but I think the party that won the election was democratic socialist or whatever.
The Thing that gives me the creeps is that a supposedly bankrupt country(Russia)is still producing weaponry faster than most realise,and developing better weapons technology all the time,then selling it to any country that can come up with the bucks to pay for it.
Russia is still a big player in this "faux war on terror",I would possibly say the cold war never really ended,they just moved toward destroying the uS from within I think.

another link with germany....more interesting...mentions the acquiring WMD....

Germany was 'key supplier' of Saddam suppliers

Iraq has identified Germany as the country whose companies did most to help Baghdad in its drive to acquire weapons of mass destruction, said a German newspaper yesterday.
The leftwing Berlin daily, die tageszeitung, said it had obtained a copy of part of the document handed by Baghdad to the UN earlier this month which supplied details of its weapons programmes. The extract included a list of foreign companies, of which more than half - 80 - were German.

woah!!! interesting isnt it????


but this cant be, saddam never had WMD! right?!?!?!?!

the article also mentions TWENTYFOUR!!! american companies...jeez!!!



[Edited on 29-8-2003 by ThePrankMonkey]

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
the article also mentions TWENTYFOUR!!! american companies...jeez!!!

The USA Today article mentions 30 US companies involved, but again it isn't sure if these companies were in direct contact with the Iraqi's or were if these goods were accessed by third parties, I haven't seen anything else concerning this issue on the news today. I think this needs to be looked into in much greater detail, if infact these companies were dealing direct, there has got to be some kind of action taken.

Unbalanced:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My topic, there can you see what kinds of weapons Russians build.. they are as good or better than US hardware.. These cant be a products of a bankrupt nation.

Some of those weapons US has nothing alike them.. like BMP-3, in US terms it would be tank with Bradley IFV hull and AMRAMS MBT fire power..

i wonder if anyone is going to read ALL of the articles in the links i provided and actually say something like "yeah you're right, they all suck!" or if everyone is going to simply assume i'm blindly defending politicians and make their cookie cutter comments???



i'm curious how people will respond to a post that doesnt defend or protects the politicians and busnessmen regardless what borders they live in.

i await to see if anyone rise above their own bias and see the bigger picture.

Originally posted by FULCRUM
My topic, there can you see what kinds of weapons Russians build.. they are as good or better than US hardware.. These cant be a products of a bankrupt nation.

The article in question is talking about computers, labratory equipment, and aircraft parts, not weapons. It seems you take every shot at the US you can.

...was available before The US attacked Iraq,all of this info proves,(if ya wanna trust the media completely..),that there were dealings both under the table and over the table,of goods that were against the US interests for Iraq to have and not really a big deal For Iraq to have.
In the end,Iraq was not much of a thereat to the US,doesn't seem like Iraq got along too terribly bad with her neighbors either.
So we all have somewhat of an understanding now,that there were powers at play that would have gained more if the US did not attack Iraq,now those same powers want to get a piece of the spoils....same old, same old,SSDD.
Meet the new boss,same as the old boss.
I know this doesn't really help to clear anything up,what I have written here,but whether whoever sold whoever whatever is a bit dated after it comes to light as information,makes very little difference anyway.
It is all about profits,the people selling the weapons and tech will never experience the effect of them,they know it,they don't care.we are just caught in the middle of it,if people could get past their religious and political differences,we might even be able to fight the tyranny.
We all need the same stuff to survive...........................
$0.02
all rights reserved without prejudice U.C.C.1-207

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
I know this doesn't really help to clear anything up,what I have written here,but whether whoever sold whoever whatever is a bit dated after it comes to light as information,makes very little difference anyway.

A bit dated? Makes very little difference? If these companies were dealing direct with the Iraqi regime, then they should be punished, I dont care when it was.

Agreed Proud...I can't recall the company's name but here recently a US company came under some major investigations in relations to its dealings with China, I think. I really need to find that article....but....
The point being though, is if this company is being reprimanded, wouldn't it be prudent to reprimand those involved with Iraq? I think so.
The US jumped on France, Germany, and Russia for their dealings with Iraq...which were against and in VIOLATION of the UN resolutions dealing with Iraq and its sanctions.

You bring up a great point and argument.

regards
seekerof



[Edited on 30-8-2003 by Seekerof]

..,I agree,but these people who are selling this tech or whatever are not like you or me,they are unaccountable,since they will never be held accountable it really does not matter what you or I think.
Th problem starts way before the incidents that have occurred,it starts with greedy politicians,and way beyond greedy corporations,with the government and it's agenda to stir up the entire planet into a big mess so they have to step in with a solution.
The problem is provided by those who are waiting to present a pre-planned solution to solve the problem,they work both ends of the deal,we just build the stuff and die in the wars that are a product of the problems that are allowed to develop from these sales and so on.
Things are very different than they appear to be,remember Enron?,how many of those Enron guys are working in the Bush administration???,how could this be?,how many Enron execs ended up with any kind of consequences to pay for being involved in the scam?,one,two,I am sure that after walking away with millions of dollars that a fine was not really a problem for them,now ,if a bunch of peasants showed up with pitchforks and clubs,and actually made them pay for their mistakes some things would have changed.
Until the US citizenry grows a pair of balls this garbage is going to continue to happen.
It will never end until...we'll it just won't.