Is the Muslim World in a Dark Age?

First off, I don't believe there is anything inherintly wrong with Islam. I have several muslim friends (one of my best friends is an avid supporter of Iran). I was simply thinking about the phrase "History repeats itself" and the middle ages, and it came up surprisingly close to the European Middle Ages.

1. Technologically: Both western Europe during the dark ages and the muslim world now are less technologically advanced than their more powerful neighbors. The Islamic world was a center of learning a thousand years ago, and now they are far behind the west in terms of technological development.

2. Religion: In Western Europe, ultimate power lay in the hands of the Church. They could excommunicate people, the Inquisition tortured those they believed to be traitors (similar to some beheadings today?), and life was essentially based around the church (the markets were often held in front of them). Islam today has created religious governments that essentially remind people that they are part of Islam (requirement of beards and heavy clothing for women).

3 War: One key piece is the fact that war between Christian countries was extremely common. Today, there are events such as the Iran-Iraq war that show the strength of the Islamic brotherhood. There are also religious wars against a more powerful neighbours, for the west Crusades and now for Islam the Jihads.

That is all I can think of right now, but if I see some more I will post it. I would like to add again that I do not mean to insult anyone, and that I am merely posting this as a student of history.

its true, the Church in Europe tries to limit the knowledge from spreading to the rest of Europe and have the peasants listen to priests and the Church's laws.

now u have religious extremists in ME and other regions near the ME that contains knowledge and that Koran is the law and follow the law. the Taliban for example attempts to intrepret the Koran where to ban television and satellites because its unIslamic. there are many others i can think of. but in anicase this shows how religious people like clerics and Ayatollahs are attempting to limit technology for it spreads knowledge like the internet for example. follow the Koran. Allah Ak Barr.

Originally posted by PBscientist
1. Technologically: Both western Europe during the dark ages and the muslim world now are less technologically advanced than their more powerful neighbors. The Islamic world was a center of learning a thousand years ago, and now they are far behind the west in terms of technological development.

Can you elaborate on this point, with examples?

I'll try. Most of the middle east gets it's money from oil, so they have had an incentive to base their economies around that instead of technology. For example, most military equipment they have is foreign (Iran was using some german g3's during their wargames, lots of ak's, russian and american tanks, russian and american aircraft, russian SAMs, etc), and I haven't seen many Arab electronics for sale in best buy. Most information I see also shows them using western cd players, computers, video game systems (that sniper souljah posted about had an XboX I think), and movies (the same sniper liked watching Enemy at the Gates). Some countries such as Iran are attempting to produce their own stuff, but much of it is years behind the west (ie. the zulfiqar, shahab, etc).

If the "Christian" right get their way this country is headed into the dark ages also.

PBscientist,
You may want to rethink this or not generalize too much.
Yes, Iran, Iraq, Afghanatan are behind the times but when you say the Islamic wold you need to include countries like India which has taken 100's of thousands of customer service as well as Tech jobs from the US.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
PBscientist,
You may want to rethink this or not generalize too much.
Yes, Iran, Iraq, Afghanatan are behind the times but when you say the Islamic wold you need to include countries like India which has taken 100's of thousands of customer service as well as Tech jobs from the US.

india also has a few of its own satellites doesnt it?

Yeppers it does!
India is very tech savvy as well as large portions of Saudi Arabia and other nations in that part of the world.
Unfortunately, due to the media mostly showing images of this part of the world as being nearly Stone Age, I believe that term was even used to describe Afghanistan when we were first in there to get rid of the Taliban, most of the world (read the US) believes that the entire Islamic world is the same.

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Unfortunately, due to the media mostly showing images of this part of the world as being nearly Stone Age, I believe that term was even used to describe Afghanistan when we were first in there to get rid of the Taliban, most of the world (read the US) believes that the entire Islamic world is the same.

true. i remember somebody posted a link a while ago of pictures of iran so people would know how the country looks before it gets bombed - some amazingly beautiful and very modern architecture there

You can say the islamic world is in a dark age compared to theire past but it isnt as dark as what the western world had.

The Middle East, along with many other places in the world, has suffered from the after effects of being colonies. Many countries operate under dictatorships and this is no way for a country to improve. I may not agree with the method that Bush seeks to bring democracy to the Middle East, but it can be argued that his heart (if he has one:lol is in the right place.

Give people freedom and they will flourish.

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
If the "Christian" right get their way this country is headed into the dark ages also.

If they get there way we may have very few rights left but it does not mean the dark ages in terms of history. Now it may not be happy times but I would call it the fear age instead.

Freedom alone doesnt make a country rich.

If i remeber properly, when the U.S. rolled into bagdad, there was complete and total anarchy,. mass looting, etc.

and now the radical islamic factions in Iraq dominate the govrement they have over there, and are trying to turn the nation into a theological dictaorship.

And disscusiing technolgoy isn't the main point here, it was those four genralization that PB made.

Also, is india part of the middle east, i put it more towards southeast asia.

Originally posted by tomcat ha
Freedom alone doesnt make a country rich.

But it is a start, and is surely an essential ingredient of a truly 'rich' country no?

Originally posted by Supraliminal
Also, is india part of the middle east, i put it more towards southeast asia.

I would agree, but it is not more likely to be part of the Indian sub-continent

Forgive me if I'm wrong but isn't India predominently Hindu? Not Muslim?

There is a difference.

You don't actually have to list countries, the question was about Islam, the religion.

I read the other day that by the Islamic calander the year is 1492 (or there abouts) and I asked myself, where was the western world at that point in time. Bygolly in 1492 we were smack in the middle of the dark ages, when religion ruled and tyranny was the result.

I believe the answer is yes, Islam is going thru its own version of the dark ages. There's not a damn thing we can do about it either. ANY and every attack will simply justify the hate and victimhood of the adherants.

Just as we came unto our own enlightenment age, so shall they. Unless we kill them all first. (which is a real possibility)

and yes, while the western world was going thru the dark ages the Islamic world was exploring, teaching, building and expanding. While we were in the dark they kept a light of hope alive. You'd think it was the least we could do for them.

Personally, I think its a debt we owe them.

Wupy

the muslim world now are less technologically advanced than their more powerful neighbors... now they are far behind the west in terms of technological development

I'm not saying this is false, however, i do think it is a generalisation fueled by perhaps powerful images of backwardness in Muslim countries that you see on the tv? Do you have any evidence of this?

Islam today has created religious governments that essentially remind people that they are part of Islam (requirement of beards and heavy clothing for women).

A bit general, 'heavy clothes'? thats an odd one, I'm just not certain that all the Muslim countries enforce these things to as much an extent that what cnn tells us would have us believe.

I don't think you can really compare the dark ages to the current state of the Islamic countries at the moment, because for one, with the limited knowledge I have, i know they do have some 'modern' aspects, so I'm wondering how widespread this dark age is.

I could have sworn i read that Iran makes its own military equipment?

wow mrwupy thats an awesome point, wot are the odds with the year thing. lets just hope the difference of there being nukes doesn't do any harm this time round.

[edit on 23-8-2005 by sal88]

Originally posted by mrwupy
I read the other day that by the Islamic calander the year is 1492 (or there abouts) and I asked myself, where was the western world at that point in time. Bygolly in 1492 we were smack in the middle of the dark ages, when religion ruled and tyranny was the result.

Funnily enough 1492 CE was an important year for Islam as the Christian reconquest of Spain concluded with the fall of Granada, and the expulsion of Muslims from Spain occured (the Jews were also expelled). I hope there are no plans to recreate this type of thing this time around!!