Forum for philosophy!

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
how do i know that my thoughts exist? i cannot percive them, you cannot pecive them...
so the "i think therefore iam" fulls apart because according to my senses, thought does not exist.
therefore i dont exist
therefore my life does not exist,
and to conclude, if my life does not exist, my death does not.

Is it not obvious how you know your thoughts exist? If your having them they exist.
If your thinking about thoughts then you confirm Descartes statement "I am thinking, therefore I exist".The process of thinking doesn't involve the 5 senses it's a process in the mind.

"But I have convinced myself that there is absolutely nothing in the world, no sky, no earth, no minds, no bodies. Does it now follow that I too do not exist? No: if I convinced myself of something [or thought anything at all] then I certainly existed." Rene Descartes

i know they exist, without perciving them! why cant it be the same with life after death?

See now you confirm Descatres thinking. He rejects perception and follows deduction.Life after death or any conclusion of a thought is not the same thing.The only thing without doubt is that you had the thought it doesn't follow that the conclusions of those thoughts are reality.Life after death is nothing more than a perception and therefore cannot be fully trusted.
Ideas of life after death are a distraction and as I've said elsewhere a control measure,taking the focus of the mind away from the here and now.The only life anybody can know without doubt is the one right now,live it to the fullest and let death take care of it's self,lifes to short and precious to waste on pointless distractions.

of course!

death is but a distraction from life! i cannot belive i missed that! wont stop me thinking about it though...

what are your full belifs?

full beliefs of what ? If it's death,I think that once your dead that's it end of story that seems the most rational outlook.The rest is at best conjecture and supposition based on a need within man to seek something beyond himself to get by what Albert Camus would call the absurdity of life and at worst a means of control employed by religions to distract those at the lower end of society away from harsh realities with empty promises of better things to come,promises are a comfort to a fool.
Like I said all we can really know is this life make the most of it don't hold out for better things to come strive for them now.

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
someone did not tell me that my thoughts exist-that would be absurd.

i know they exist, without perciving them!

If you claim you do not perceive your thoughts, then I'll take you at your word. I however, do perceive mine. I hear them mostly, and I see them as well, and on rare occasion I smell them.

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
why cant it be the same with life after death?

You have thoughts in the present. You do not have life after death in the present, since you are not presently dead (I assume). Whatever non-perception mechanism is allowing you to know you have thoughts would have to be precognitive in order to know you have life after dead.

i think i understand what you mean spam....

so how do both of you live your lifes then, seeing as you belive that there is nothing?

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
so how do both of you live your lifes then, seeing as you belive that there is nothing?

Not really sure what you mean by this,should I be depressed because of my own mortality ?
The only guarantee in life is death but it's not something to dwell on,the only pain in death is for those who are alive.I just live the best I can.Death is of no significance,when it comes it comes and I wont know anything about it,I prefer to focus my energies on a progressive life and trying to be a positive influence on those around me.
It's more valid for me to ask,how can people live there lives in unsatisfactory conditions and just accept it as the way things are but think it will all be better after they die? To me thats madness,I will confront injustice and the wrongs I see in my life not meekly accept them.
As a descendent of slaves,I can look back into history and see generation upon generation of my ancestors fooled into submission by the dream of a better life to come,well I won't be fooled.I'll live by what I can see or perceive as right within myself not what's been passed down by the slavemaster.

when i say "how does this affect your life", i mean do you have strong morals?
kinda like do you think "oh well aim gonna end anyway" kinda thing...

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
i think i understand what you mean spam....

so how do both of you live your lifes then, seeing as you belive that there is nothing?

From my perspective, it results in a live and let live attitude, and a disdain for authority.

This doesn't mean I'm a sociopath. Quite the opposite is true.

Originally posted by blue_sky_9
when i say "how does this affect your life", i mean do you have strong morals?
kinda like do you think "oh well aim gonna end anyway" kinda thing...

Well I try to live the best I can and by the values I think are important.Why should morality be the exclusive preserve of those who believe in something more,is it not more honest to live a good life because you know within yourself it's the right thing to do rather than because your told God is watching ?

I try to live well throught love and respect rather than fear of punishment after death.
If you come to the conclusion that you are soley responsible for your actions and free to act as you wish without censure from a higher power,it doesn't necessarily follow that you'll live a selfish,negative life.Plenty people who profess to believe in heaven live negative lives,in fact I can't think of many things more hateful than the idea that those who don't live by your own (in fact not their own but received) moral values and concept of God will burn in hell for eternity.
Morality is not about what happens after death it's about life and connecting with others and nature,if you have love and empathy for others you will live a worthwhile life regardless of whatever beliefs you hold.

[edit on 5/9/2005 by Ras Dedan]

hey! that deserves a way above!

mind if i add you to my buddy list?

its true what you say though. why should one do the right thing just because god says so?

do you think that it is a weakness to show compassion to ones enemys then?

i feel that there is a time and a place to show that kind of compassion. i mean, if i was in a street fight, (:uzi i would give no mercy because i expect to recive none. then again, if iam making peace, it helps to be compassionate to see the others point of view...

its diffecult.

Originally posted by blue_sky_9

i feel that there is a time and a place to show that kind of compassion. i mean, if i was in a street fight, (:uzi

i would give no mercy because i expect to recive none. then again, if iam making peace, it helps to be compassionate to see the others point of view...

its diffecult.

You can't expect to receive compassion and/or mercy if you don't give it, either....

You can only make peace if someone makes the first move.

If we continually expect the other guy to be the one to make this move, then we'll never see peace.

Thanks blue sky,of course I don't mind.

As for enemies,I'd rather not get to a stage with someone where I could consider them really an enemy.I just wont interact or keep company with troublesome people.If I'm in a situation with someone i find objectionable I'll just leave,lifes to short to spend in needless quarreling and it's hard enough sometimes to maintain a firm mind towards living right without allowing people who have no importance to me drag me down.I take the example of Booker T Washington who said "I will permit no man to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him" theres a simple truth in that and this from a man born into slavery,if he can rise above all that then I can rise above things in my life.
Getting into a fight is a different matter which thankfully I haven't found myself in for many years but obviously if someone lays hands on me,anyone in my company or if I see someone defenless in trouble I'm going to react in an appropriate manner.

i wonder what it was like in a battle a few centires ago... i suppose that if i was there, i would give no quater in the heat of battle. id probably take the enemys head off if he hit the ground hurt. bit ruthless i suppose.