USS Jimmy Carter (the "F/A-22" of submarines)

I made a thread in February. You may find some more details there.

ATS: Most Heavily Armed Submarine Ever Built


Photo: AP

Originally posted by Harlequin
FredT - using low power setting - whats the best `underway` speed than can be attained?

The tactical speed of a sub is the fastest it can go while maintaining its stealth. According to globalsecurity the Seawolf has a tactical speed of 25 knots. Thats pretty darn quick for keeping that silent.

The tactical speed of a submarine is that speed at which the submarine is quiet enough to remain undetected while tracking enemy submarines effectively, with sources of self-noise reduced to the point that other submarines and ships can be detected using onboard passive sonar sensors. The the maximum burst speed of a submarine is the highest speed that can be achieved by the submarine's propulsion system, regardless of the self-noise created in the process. In the past, the tactical speed of a submarine was typically significantly less than its burst speed, though in the case of the SSN-21 Seawolf it is said that the tactical speed of 25 knots is a significant fraction of the burst speed of the boat.
www.globalsecurity.org...

[edit on 8/5/05 by FredT]

Originally posted by warpboost

Originally posted by Harlequin

Originally posted by warpboost

Originally posted by Harlequin
I can still see a diesel boat being quieter especially an AIP boat - nuke boats still are noisy because of the reactor pumps

But what happens when your in a diesel being tracked, and your batteries start running low and you need to start the diesel?

they`ll have to find it first - as an AUS diesel boat managed to sink a carrier not once but 3 times during an exercise , it got passed dedicated sub hunters AND several attack boats

Its down to the crew training , and luck - subs are small and oceans are BIG = lots of room to hide.

FredT - using low power setting - whats the best `underway` speed than can be attained?

OK, but what happens to a diesel when your at war, and cant refuel for whatever reason? How long could a diesel stay at sea without refueling? I'm not discrediting the capabilitues of a diesl I'm just trying to learn more. Thanks

[edit on 5-8-2005 by warpboost]

en.wikipedia.org... a quick link about a modern diesel (although not AIP)
the upholders are good and very quiet boats

it has a range of around 10,000 NM.

[edit on 5-8-2005 by Harlequin]

Just a friendly reminder from your neighborhood mod. Please watch the big quotes adn the compound quotes.

Thanks
FredT

[edit on 8/5/05 by FredT]

Originally posted by NWguy83


USS Virginia - October 2004
USS Texas - June 2005

I stand corrected, didnt know the Virginia had made the fleet yet....

Good to see your posts again. I havent seen a good submarine post in some time. Been busy around here too so not much time for posting.
Also some good questions on here and replys too.

First off Fred T's reply on the natural circulation reactors is pretty much in the bulls eye. Natural circulation reactors have pretty much taken care of the reactor noise below a certain power level..they are very quiet. Fred got it correct.
As I recall for the United States the natural circulation reactor was first utilized on the Ohio class Boomer boats and quite successfully. The Ohio class boomers in their day were the very definition of the word "Quiet".
Well done Fred.

As to the Pump Jet technology of which you folks seem wont to know about. Yes, most of it in this application is classified. Highly classified.
I will give you a hint as to what you are looking at or thinking if you have ever seen one in operation.
The first one of these I have ever witnessed was in a shopping mall. It is a type of water fountain that shoots jets of water to a coreography of music. There are like 70 or so nozzles at different angles in this coreography. The water shoots up and out at different angles to the accompanying music and it does not spread out. Different nozzles come into or out of play for different parts of the program. Quite spectacular to watch. Somehow all he molecules are kept straight and in line like a water laser beam so to speak. The very intresting thing about it ..is that the whole process is totally quiet. This means you are getting very close to 100% effeciency in thrust from these jets...plus the quiet feature too.
If you know where one of these multi nozzle fountains are at ..suggest the most curious of you go and watch one for about a hour and think about what is said here on this post.
This is not new technology but just somewhat new in this specific application on submarines.

As to sattelites being able to pick submarines up.....well...if you guys say so...!!!

One more thing for you folks to consider...your Sony walkman...look at one closely and if you go back far enough to remember ...in the earlier days they used to take 4 AA type batterys. Today the battery drain is down to 2 AA batterys and doing the same or a better job than the early ones. This is a 50% boost in effeciency. This is a huge leap in improvement.
Motor technology is moving from early stages to beyond flash Gordon in applications. Speed torque and effeciency are moving up the scales rapidly. This in certain applications would also naturally include quiet features.

When you see new gadgets come out on the civilian market ..think about what you are looking at beyond the mere pleasure and satisfaction that these gadgets bring you. Think out side the box so to speak. Ask yourself how olde this technology is and when could it have been developed. What must the true state of the art be today. You often come up with some surprising results and of course more questions than answers. But it is very intresting.

Thanks for some great posts on this thread.
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
As to the Pump Jet technology of which you folks seem wont to know about. Yes, most of it in this application is classified. Highly classified.
The first one of these I have ever witnessed was in a shopping mall.

Unintentionally hilarious

Yes it is I agree Hillarious ..until one thinks beyond the very nature of what one is immediately observing and goes further unto applications.

One can do the same thing with a Yamaha electronic keyboard with the CD device next to the keyboard. In the olde days it was a cassette device.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Harlequin
I can still see a diesel boat being quieter especially an AIP boat - nuke boats still are noisy because of the reactor pumps

I don't see why they wouldn't rap the reactor pumps in noise canceling material...

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Good to see your posts again. I havent seen a good submarine post in some time. Been busy around here too so not much time for posting.
Also some good questions on here and replys too.

Thanks man, been busy chaseing fishermen in the north sea.
Yeah its good to see some new sub threads.
Thanks for explaining this BTW.

Originally posted by NWguy83

I don't see why they wouldn't rap the reactor pumps in noise canceling material...

I would rather see them generate the exact same noise 180 degrees out of phase cancelling it completely.

I love the part about the Jimmy Carter being able to tap underwater fiber-optic cables. It's a no-lose statement. If you send your classified information by fiber-optic the Carter can intercept it. If you send it by radio the NSA can get it. That's hilarious.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
I would rather see them generate the exact same noise 180 degrees out of phase cancelling it completely.

Lol nice point, mind you....what about all the poor men aboard....they would start getting headaches for no reason...

Originally posted by devilwasp
Lol nice point, mind you....what about all the poor men aboard....they would start getting headaches for no reason...

Why would they get headaches? They wouldn't hear anything. You don't have to do it for all frequencies just a few would reduce the noise signature to almost nothing. Reverse phase is how the Bose noise cancelling headphones work.

Thanks for your post.

You posted:

"I don't see why they wouldn't rap the reactor pumps in noise canceling material"

There are some noise quieting features on this type of pump. However the compartment itself has sound quieting features built into it and also obviously the hulls today have the sound tiles on the outside of them.
What I will tell you about these pumps and the motors that drive them is that they are very special. You dont get a replacement at Lowes or Home Depot/ Sears. Translation of this is that they are very , very , expensive.

Good question NW Guy,
Thanks,
Orangetom

I really wonder how they can tap into fiber optic cables without disrupting the signal and letting it be known that they are tapping in??? Do they actively tap the cable to grab the data, but do it so quickly that it only corrupts a minute amount of data or do they use some type of xray like technology to passively look into the cable and grab the signal by just watching

Originally posted by orangetom1999
There are some noise quieting features on this type of pump. However the compartment itself has sound quieting features built into it and also obviously the hulls today have the sound tiles on the outside of them.
What I will tell you about these pumps and the motors that drive them is that they are very special. You dont get a replacement at Lowes or Home Depot/ Sears. Translation of this is that they are very , very , expensive.

Good question NW Guy,
Thanks,
Orangetom

Those tiles are added for the sole purpose of reducing a return wave from an active sonar pulse.

All vibrating equipment is mounted on shock mounts to dampen their radiated noise. That and a few "modifications" are what lessen the subs radiated noise.

From what I have read, to tap the cables in the ocean, they hover over the cables and send down a minisub that is specially-designed for tapping the cables.

The original poster asked - "Is the USS Jimmy Carter the F/A-22 of submarines".

I would say yes:

1. It's over-priced
2. We aren't building many of them
3. The brass are trying to invent new roles for it.
4. It's named after one of America's worst ever Presidents

Oh sorry, that last one only applies to the Seawolf unless they re-name the F/A - 22 to Dubya.

Originally posted by Winchester Ranger T
The original poster asked - "Is the USS Jimmy Carter the F/A-22 of submarines".

I would say yes:

1. It's over-priced
2. We aren't building many of them
3. The brass are trying to invent new roles for it.
4. It's named after one of America's worst ever Presidents

5. It is too expensive to use in the situations that it is ment for because we might lose one.

I hear that they are building one more. The USS William Jefferson Clinton.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
Why would they get headaches? They wouldn't hear anything. You don't have to do it for all frequencies just a few would reduce the noise signature to almost nothing. Reverse phase is how the Bose noise cancelling headphones work.

Yeah your right......sorry mate I've not been on top form lately....