Bush: Schools Should Teach 'Intelligent Design'

The creation of the Origins & Creationism Conspiracy forum could not have been more timely. Dare I say our resident swami SkepticOverlord is not only a visionary, but a rather intelligent designer as well.

The predicted conspiracy on which this forum is based is now official.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
The United States is singularly unique in experiencing the phenomenon of "creationism" and/or "intelligent design" advocates seeking to eliminate the teaching of evolution science in favor of non-scientific philosophy.

Over the past year, with the evangelically charged U.S. election, the creationism movement has gained new momentum along with an increase in posts here on ATS. From a purely objective standpoint, the issue of an organized group seeking to diminish or replace a widely accepted scientific topic with one of pure philosophy and faith fits the description of a "conspiracy".

And (as CNN Reports) the President of the United States is in on it!

Bush: Schools should teach 'intelligent design'
Views the theory as part of creation of life studies

CNN.com
Tuesday, August 2, 2005

During a round-table interview with reporters from five Texas newspapers, Bush declined to go into detail on his personal views of the origin of life. But he said students should learn about both theories, Knight Ridder Newspapers reported.

"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes."

The theory of intelligent design says life on earth is too complex to have developed through evolution, implying that a higher power must have had a hand in creation.

Christian conservatives -- a substantial part of Bush's voting base -- have been pushing for the teaching of intelligent design in public schools. Scientists have rejected the theory as an attempt to force religion into science education.

Regardless of one's personal beliefs regarding the origins of life (which this topic is not about), the "organized group seeking to diminish or replace a widely accepted scientific topic with one of pure philosophy and faith" now has a spokesman (albeit a meek and sidestepping one) in the President of the United States.

[edit on 3-8-2005 by RANT]

Well this is not a surprised that is what religious groups that backed the president re election had in mind all along, now he has to pay back. He already bay back big corporations with laws in the favors, now is the religious groups.

I guess science will become an underground subject and we will be back to the dark ages of Reagan administration and the horrible disrepair of the school system the education of our future will be in the hands of religious fundamentalist.

Our country is behind in education as compare to other civilized nations, that along tells were we are heading.

Intelligent design belongs with mythology and ideological believes.

The less educated and controlled become our children the more moldable and gullible they became to the government and religious rights.

Or that is what the religious groups think, in other hands as anything in nature human nature will prevail.

I don't have a problem with the idea that something influenced human development beyond evolution, but I do have a problem with the intelligent design concept. Just seems like a way to push the christian agenda.
What can we expect from someone who listens to his "God" before he listens to his advisors?

Originally posted by savagecupid
What can we expect from someone who listens to his "God" before he listens to his advisors?

Funny that you mention this, that is the same God that in his name the crusades started and in his name the "war on terror" alias fight against muslin estremist, also is acredited.

Now you see where we are heading all alone.

Be ware of the "reconstructionist"

As this nation, built upon Christianity in its conception, taught "intelligent design" in its schools for the longest until the hijacked system decided it was wrong to do so. As the "widely accepted scientific topic" is soft science at best, and more hypothesis than theory, why would it be wrong to add intelligent design into the mix?
The Christian agenda? LOL! This nation WAS a Christian agenda. I have no doubt that is something many want me and everyone else to forget, but it is the fact.
Darwinism is an hypothesis taken as fact on sheer faith, and it is taught to my son against my will using my tax dollars.

Of all the things I see wrong with Bush, savagecupid, allegedly listening to God is not one of them. I ask you, though, considering the leadership, do ytou think he is actually hearing and acting on the advice of God?

Marg, the Crusades were conducted because the Muslims were attempting a takeover, read real history, not the politically correct crap.

Funny that I was told in school that the crusaders were to spread christianity in the middle east, taking in consideration my Catholic backgroun I wonder, now at the same time Evolution was also a topic in school with not problem at all.

Now my childrens in this God ridden town I leave in had Evolution bypass in their curriculum because of faith.

So I guess you are sending your child to the wrong schools you should come here in Albany and see for yourself.

The word Jesus is not to be spoken aloud inside the school or students get detention because that is disrespecting God.

See it depends which counties or cities you are in that's how religous fundamentalist views are taking over.

[edit on 3-8-2005 by marg6043]

When one starts mentioning 'Intelligent Design', doesn't that leave the door open for questions of 'Alien Intelligen Design' as well? I'm a bit surprised they would want to go there, even theoretically.

Even I wasn't taught that the Crusades were to spread Christianity. Ifthey were, they were a total failure.

Update on Evolution v - I. D. : After observing my neighbors and their children piling into the van to go wherever Sasquatch look alikes go, maybe there is something to this notion of Darwinism.

Quick - someone bring me the dart gun.

T.C., I dont have a prob with him listening to his god, I just have a problem when he listens to his god above all others, expecialy when it comes in its current popular interpritation. Gods message should be a background for your life and not a high Db noise telling you what to do. How does he even know if its god he is hearing, could be the devil wispering in his ear instead, seems that way judging from his actions. He should listen to his advisors first, then keep their advice in the context of his religion. Intelligent design is just a backdoor for christianity in schools. I have problems with darwinism myself but its the best theory so far, so we keep testing it until we are sure or not, thats the scientific method and IMO thats better than letting someones interpritation of what should be a very personal relationship, influence our kids. Thats for each parent to deside.

The Crusades were fought to recapture Jerusalem from the Muslims, basically to kick them out and replace them with Chrisitans, and for the most part they were a total failure.

Why dont American schools teach my theory of 'giant mankey fart' to explain human prescence?

It has backing from a half arsed history student, that damn near makes it official! Its even sanctioned by the Church. (of giant monkey farts)

Our members stand tall and proud of their refusal to take their blinkers off and see the world for what it really is!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Even I wasn't taught that the Crusades were to spread Christianity. Ifthey were, they were a total failure.

I understand, but you have to remember that I come from a spanish country and our roots are from Spain and the main religion is
Catholic.

We in school have to study everything that has to do with our spanish roots from the main land including the spread of chrsitianity.

Only when the Evangelist started to become a force in the Island during the 70's and 80's things started to change.

Before that is was mostly the Catholic church the one that had the last say in education their influences were very strong.

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by savagecupid
What can we expect from someone who listens to his "God" before he listens to his advisors?

the "war on terror" alias fight against muslin estremist, .

Also known as The Crusade against brown people, Vietnam Part Deux,21st Century Oil Grab or Snafu of Epic Proportions.

edited for language

[edit on 3-8-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally spaketh by the President of the United States at the onset of his Texas vacation of thirty and three days

"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes."

He wants to teach "both" theories. Okay?

Science and the "other" kind.

The ones that says things like...

We came from the mating of the Sky God's son and a special five-toed chicken.

Or, we came from the first two creatures (a giant named Ymir and a cow named Audhumla) that rose spontaneously from the mixture of the glacial waters of Niflheim (the land of ice and mist) and the warm winds of Muspellsheim (the land of fire).

Or, it took several colorful attempts to make man (each effort needing to be destroyed), due to various reasons like the Gods losing manly ball game challenges to the Lords of Death.

Or, as is often pondered in these forums "aliens did it."

Or, if you prefer, another equally 'intelligent designer' theory is as follows:

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

And there you have it! "Both" theories. All good.

The scientifically verifiable and testable theory (either ultimately provable or disprovable) and the five-toed chicken, cow humping giant, soccer playing, Zeta Reticulan, mudpie making, rib stealing "intelligent designer" versions.

Ridiculous. Absolutely frailing idiotic. No. Hell no. The Jewish version is not any different than Mayans thinking a giant flying serpent came to earth and laid human eggs. Plus... hello, not Jewish over here. Not a vassal of the Roman Empire. Not subject to Spanish Conquistadors. Super, you burned everything my people wrote, but that doesn't make your bull# BETTER. If anything, most AMERICAN ancestors came from a combination of Animist Cow Humpers.

Yay, somebody raped my ancestors, now I must support the indoctrination of ancient Jewish lore. No. NO. NO.

Metaphysical origins gibberish is just that. Gibberish. It's not verifiable, not testable in the slightest, and it never ever will be. Evolution can at least be proven wrong or updated one day. That's why it's science. Freaking fairy tales never can.

And the man with his finger on the button of a SUPERPOWER thinks he came from mud or some other metaphysical fart in the emptiness and wants taxpayers to support "exposing" us to that. I already pay for cults to say condoms cause AIDS under Faith Based Community Initiatives.

Screw that. And the horse Jesus humped to make you "intelligent design" forced exposure fairy tale fans.

He, he, Rant the five toe chicken is from the African creation myths, every culture and nation has its own accounts of creation, actually only Christianity favor one god, "animals are only for the used of men" he, he.

Now, how many times I have expose the creation myth for what it is, the believes and mythical accounts of the Jewish nation from the main God to the link of blood line of David, culminating with the prophecy of a messiah that never materialized in the Jewish myth, until Christianity was born and made one.

We in the US worship the blood line of the Jewish history, lore and myth.

But occurs many tell you that Christianity is different.

Not is not it all comes from the Jewish believes. Well I am not of Jewish descendant and neither my children.

I guess the five toe chicken looks more interesting.

Although the Sumerian Nibiru link will bring the hopes for the “Alien link”

If this wasn't so serious it would be utterly hilarious. (As is its still pretty funny).

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
As the "widely accepted scientific topic" is soft science at best, and more hypothesis than theory
....
Darwinism is an hypothesis taken as fact on sheer faith, and it is taught to my son against my will using my tax dollars.

Well, if your son is learning darwinism, then you have a good right to be upset, as your schools textbooks are stunningly out of date. Evolution has evolved a great deal since Darwin. Like any scientific theory it changes and adapts in response to observations.
I do take heart from the fact that we aren't still attacking the 'theory' part of it and now at least attempt to drag it back to being a hypothesis. Unfortunately thats incorrect, evolution remains a solid scientific theory, as much as religious types might wish it wasn't.

MORE IMPORTANTLY however, is that while evolution isn't a perfect theory. As far as scientific theories go it stands unchallenged in its field. Stating that Intelligent Design is as important as Evolution is like comparing a kayak to an aircraft carrier, its simply insane. Last I heard there wasn't even any noteable scientific papers covering Intelligent Design, yet people seriously think we should just start teaching it in schools?

On a side note:

Originally posted by frayed1
When one starts mentioning 'Intelligent Design', doesn't that leave the door open for questions of 'Alien Intelligen Design' as well? I'm a bit surprised they would want to go there, even theoretically.

Thats actually what my initial reaction to this was, maybe I've been around here for too long.
Sadly its just a rehashed creationism, only this time we put 'Intelligent' in the name to make it sound more scientific.

Originally posted by marg6043
He, he, Rant the five toe chicken is from the African creation myths

Yup. So let's teach that. Makes as much sense as teaching Jewish lore. Native American mythology would be even better, though I'm partial to that Touch of Greys myself.

Or we could just teach science and leave the mumbo jumbo to parents and churches.

But apparently the President "thinks" differently. He came from dust, is the inbred product of a 6,000 year old rib clone and has a literal apple stuck in his throat. Genius.

Originally posted by RANT

But apparently the President "thinks" differently. He came from dust, is the inbred product of a 6,000 year old rib clone and has a literal apple stuck in his throat. Genius.

Actually it was a banana taking in consideration that the tree in question could not have seed because it was an unique tree and could not possible produced a fruit with seed and reproduce.

I guess Mr. Bush was just in one of his "God visions moments" when he had that "bright idea"

Why not concentrate on getting the kids to read, write and do arithmetic first? Then they could learn the hokey-pokey Darwinism/Creationism from their parents. That way everyone is happy.

This is just another example of divide and conquer. Who cares where we came from?? The important thing is that we are here!!! Did we come from dust, five-toed chickens or an alien petri dish? Lets all argue about something so inconsequential that it makes us forget about the designs we live within today. Designs that are anything but from God.

If it is such a sandy crotch creator, stop teaching it in schools!! If more effort was put into getting more kids to a higher literacy level then maybe they could go read the various creationism myths themselves. Then they could make up their minds of where they came from. Kids should be concentrating on who they are and where they are going. Whether they fell from a tree clutching a bone or were created from dust really has no bearing on their lives.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
Why not concentrate on getting the kids to read, write and do arithmetic first? Then they could learn the hokey-pokey Darwinism/Creationism from their parents. That way everyone is happy.

.

!!!!Bingo!!!! you got my very first vote for this month, what everytbody in their haste to bring religion into the classroom has forgotten is the fact that our school system is failing our children when it comes to basic subjects needed for everyday life and the basics for a good education later on.

Faith is not going to land a college dregree or land a good job if our children doesn't have the basic skill to survive.

Faith may be good for the sould but doesn't feed an empty stomach if you can not find a job.

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
Why not concentrate on getting the kids to read, write and do arithmetic first? Then they could learn the hokey-pokey Darwinism/Creationism from their parents. That way everyone is happy.

First of all, (as Kano pointed out) it's not "Darwinism." It's the scientific theory of evolution. And creationists can no more downgrade science to their level of "hokey-pokeyness" than they can elevate themselves to the level of science by slapping the word "intelligent" on their ancient mythology.

And it's not the schools job to dumb itself down to the lowest common denominator to make crazy people "happy." We don't stop teaching the fundamentals of math because numbers may hurt some fundamentalists feelings, and we shouldn't stop teaching the fundamentals of biology and life science either, because some people still live in caves, cross their fingers for luck, toss salt over their shoulder and bark at the moon.

Many if not most of the same people that want "intelligent design" design taught on par with science (or science eradicated as you suggest because of it's offensiveness to nose pickers) don't think dinosaurs ever existed or if they did, it was within the last 6,000 years when God supposedly made the universe (in their version). Millions of years of erosion didn't make the Grand Canyon. God had a shovel. STD's aren't diseases that can be prevented with a little education, they're God's punishment for the wages of sin. The stars were just hung yesterday. Global warming isn't worthy of consideration since the Rapture is coming. And learning about man's migration, genetics and the origins of foreign languages hurts little Johnny Fundie's feelings too because he thinks God smiting the Tower of Babel did it.

Where does it end? We don't comprise with foreign extremists and terrorists. Why our own?

If you're going to stop teaching the basics of science because of some radical religious cult's demands, why not just do whatever Osama Bin Laden wants to make him happy too? No. Catering and compromising with dogmatic lunatics is absurd. You can never start, because it never stops.

They're called Dominionists for a reason.