When will the U.S. fall and how?

me and my friend were sitting around the other day talking about how the U.S. will fall out of power and when its going to happen. so im just wondering what everyone on here thinks of it? it's pretty naive to think one country will be a superpower forever, especially considering that its never happend before.

personally i think it will be a revolution within the country and i can see it happening within the next 100 years.

Personally I hope it never happens since it may very well destablize the world completely.

Same if China or Russia completely goes under, that would not be good, although not nearly as bad as the US.

Sooner than most think. Sure there are those who continue to believe that nothing bad will happen to them or this country, but that is obvious ignornace. Let them live in that fantasy world, reality will catch up to them and they will see the truth. As it is exactly that kind of mentality that furthers this decline of better interest. It is a false hope and one to be shattered, take it from those who have been there and done that, not me.

Another ATS thread might provide some clues as to the how, a fact every one should be aware of, but for reasons railing on selective ignorance they choose not to see. Even though the rest of the world does.

I feel this thread (this one being read, yes right now this thread), would make a great one to compile other information to piece the puzzel together in. Here is that link to get it started;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 31-7-2005 by ADVISOR]

I think the downfall of The US will be economic - We saw what happened with NAFTA - Now, Mexico is upset because they will be loosing their $1.40/hr jobs to Central America at .40c/hr thanks to CAFTA.

Then We have China trying to buy more and bigger US Corps.

So I don't know if we'll last long enough for a Revolution.

But no country is at the top of the food chain for ever...

Richard N. Gardner, professor and CFR member in reference to the fact that the world government cannot happen overnight: It will, "have to be built from the bottom up ratehr than the top down...an end run around national sovereignty , eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old fashioned frontal assault."

This is how and why we will fall.

When a democrat is elected president and the senate is controlled by democrats.

At the end of the age of oil.
America and the rest of the industrialized world is run on cheap oil, we reached Peak Oil in 2004 according to petroleum geologist Colin Campbell, who has been a pioneer in the oil industry, the price of oil will now begin to rise as extracting it will become more expensive. Generally it will rise about 2-3% per year but if the unrest in the Middle East developes the prices will skyrocket. We've had shortfalls of oil production in the past, like in the 1970s oil shocks the production shortfalls were about 5% and the price of oil quadrupled. Well basicly the US and the other consuming countries will start invading poorer resource-rich countries, so you'll be seeing more Iraq-like invasions in the near future, and then eventually the superpowers will start to kill each other for the last barrels of oil.
This is inevitable, unless we find a better renewable and more enviromentally friendly form of energy, like fusion (even though if a fusion reactor would blow up it would kill a whole lot of people) which seems kind of utopian considering we don't have too much time left. Or then we'd have to completly change our lifestyles, our economy etc. to reduce stress on our existing natural resources, which would require lots of sacrifices from everyone, which also seems very unrealistic at the moment, but perhaps after one last big world war with lots of nukes, biological and chemical weapons and what not, that will wipe out half of the people on this planet, maybe we will then get the point.


Cheers

people assume that natural disasters or economic collapse would ruin American destroy the most powerful democratic nation in the world. many socialists back in the 1930s thought America was ripe for the taking, but Roosevelt has showned that Americans still believe in capitalism and democracy, in the 1960s Vietnam war, Civil Rights, Counter Culture we still overcame. scandals in the 70s and 80s by the Nixon and Reagan Admin. no matter how many times such dire situations America faces, we always overcome such crisis.

its true all super powers have fallen from the top of the pyramid, so it is logical to assume it will happen with the US.

I don't think it will be oil, I would argue any nation poised to take over would also be oil dependent.

Americans have more of an impact as consumers of foreign goods, rather than sellers to foreign markets, so I expect a collapse of our economy would also bring down other economies with it.

I really don't think we are vulnerable to an invasion, based on our unique geography, surrounded by friendly neighbors and 2 oceans.

natural disasters are a possibility, but our allies would help us rebuild.

this will probably loead to some serious flaming, but one real threat to our future is the demographics changes.

its only, what 15 years before crackers are a minority in the US right ? so its logical to assume the white establishment will start to lose elections right ? Not right away, but in maybe 30-50 years

so if an entirely different demographic comes into power with an entirely different agenda, its logical to assume military strength and oil lust will fall out of favor, as will or dominance and influence. While some will cheer this, it will proabaly lead to the US being as influential on the world stage as mexico or spain.

Lo siento pero su verdadero

I agree no power stays on top forever. I am not sure it will be a crash and burn though. I would propose that another power will move forward (China) and become the focal point. I think the US will most likely move toward a democrat in the next election and thus the focus will return for a while to domestic issues. Basically, we will probably just fade quietly but not disappear.

I think it has already started. And not just in the US, but all over the world.

When will it go 'below the line'? Beyond the point of no return? Probably within the next year to three years.

When will it completely collapse? Within 5-7 years. And I think the entire world will be effected in an apocalyptic sort of way. Maybe not the 'end' but certainly, a change so enormous that things will never be the same. I don't think the US will affect this change, it's much bigger than the US.

I think there will be several factors (economical. governmental and political. environmental and health, social and perhaps external?) that will contribute to a massive shift in the workings of the world. And we'll be here to watch...

Or maybe not...

A major war will probably break out within the middle east within 1-2 years and it would probably cripple the states, and most probably majority of the rich countries in the world.

I do not know when or why the US will fall but I am convinced that it will.

www.yobserver.com...

This article sums up why I think we are doomed. The rest of the world which once looked up to us is now looking at us with disdain. I have this argument with my brother often. He says America will not fall becasue we have the mightiest military in the world. So what, we can beat everyone up like a good bully, but what happens to bullies after high school?

Originally posted by apocalypta
I do not know when or why the US will fall but I am convinced that it will.

www.yobserver.com...

This article sums up why I think we are doomed. The rest of the world which once looked up to us is now looking at us with disdain. I have this argument with my brother often. He says America will not fall becasue we have the mightiest military in the world. So what, we can beat everyone up like a good bully, but what happens to bullies after high school?

talk about being bias written by an Arab. an American could just write the downfall of the Arabs and to go back to the stoneage. this is just an editorial.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I don't think it will be oil, I would argue any nation poised to take over would also be oil dependent.

Americans have more of an impact as consumers of foreign goods, rather than sellers to foreign markets, so I expect a collapse of our economy would also bring down other economies with it.

...

so if an entirely different demographic comes into power with an entirely different agenda, its logical to assume military strength and oil lust will fall out of favor, as will or dominance and influence. While some will cheer this, it will proabaly lead to the US being as influential on the world stage as mexico or spain.

It's not really about the oil "lust", in fact there is no such thing, not anymore at least, the industrialization of the west was sparked up by and built on a new and cheap form of energy, namely oil.

As I said in another topic, think of oil as water and the current world economy and the lifestyles of people in the industrialized nations as a human. A human is 70% water, if you don't drink enough, you dehydrate, first you probably start to feel a bit dizzy and tired, ultimately you die.
The world economy is built on oil, the current standard lifestyles in industrialized countries are built on the world economy, without a cheap energy source, in this case oil, both of these will cease to exist.
If oil gets too expensive (opposite of cheap), it's not only the US economy that will first become unstable and then eventually fall, but also most of the countries that use factories to manufacture food, electronics, cars etc. and transport them by using cars, planes, boats etc. Because if you can't afford oil, you can't fuel your car, and your car won't run without fuel. You can't manufacture large quantities of food without oil, you can't transport large quantities of food without oil etc. etc.
Try to live without H2O and you'll understand what I mean.

But it is of course possible that the US and other countries will survive this, but they will be complelty reshaped, if you take a look at the US now, a few years after the collapse you wouldn't probably recognize it to be the same country as before. The US will fo sure not be a superpower after that.

So there are two possible ways to get out of this mess, number 1 we completly change our lifestyles and the economy so that we don't put much stress on our current existing natural resources, basicly we consume less, this way we at least get more time to find out how to create a new and better renewable energy source, or number 2 we kill half or more of the entire population of the earth and continue living the capitalist way until we run out of the black stuff, which leads us back to number 1. For number 1 to happen now is very unrealistic, so number 2 will probably happen.

Originally posted by deltaboy
people assume that natural disasters or economic collapse would ruin American destroy the most powerful democratic nation in the world. many socialists back in the 1930s thought America was ripe for the taking, but Roosevelt has showned that Americans still believe in capitalism and democracy, in the 1960s Vietnam war, Civil Rights, Counter Culture we still overcame. scandals in the 70s and 80s by the Nixon and Reagan Admin. no matter how many times such dire situations America faces, we always overcome such crisis.

America isn't a democratic nation anymore, a few years ago it still was, but when Bush and his corporatist buddies stepped in America was transformed into a corporatist fascist empire, the transformation isn't complete yet though.

www.oldamericancentury.org...

[edit on 1/8/2005 by SwearBear]

[edit on 1/8/2005 by SwearBear]

[edit on 1/8/2005 by SwearBear]

There are three major senerios that I can see:

1) Considering the current "Culture War", "War on Terror", security in lieu of freedom, etc. I can see an internal revolution that might or might not bring about a fall of the US, but at the least would change the inherant traits upon which it was built in a final sweep. It seems that both sides are gunning for power, and depending on who wins could decide the outcome

a) Conservatives win, which will certainly up the war count. Because liberals are becoming more and more extreme, the conservatives do the same until they finally can shut the liberals down. At which point we all lose.

b) Liberals win, which will certainly up the war count. Because conservatives are becoming more and more extreme, the liberals do the same until they finally can shut the conservatives down. At which point we all lose.

2) Due to the ever increasing menace of credit, and the living outside our means (governmentally and individually), I see a real problem on many fronts. Manufacturing, subsidized industry, government regulation, extreme taxation. This, if not changed drastically, will cause a major crash or an armed revolt. This could lead to the world (those countries or groups who hate or want us out) to hit us when our pants are down.


3) War on our own soil. This could go so many ways that I'll not go into it.

No other country (at least not yet)will destroy the us with military power.
If a group wanted to destroy the american way of life they would have to look at it as a interwoven piece of fabric. There is different pieces woven together to create the fabric of society and government. You pull apart the economy thread by continuously distrupting it and wreaking havoc (like bin laden tried to do ( I don't think he's done yet tho)
as well as pull apart the entitlements that make make the citizen's 'free' /'soverign' ie/ (or so they like to think) like poking holes in the constitution for the noble cause of protecting the homeland and it's people. Society would have to be conditioned and impacted in a negative way (how they would do that? many options) either migrate somewhere else or just put up and deal with the change.

Or if your speaking in another sense where you mean like how the soviet union fell, it would be different (kind of) because they didn't have a free market or trade, and the money kept recycling itself. I think they put alot of money into their military because they wanted to go on a crusade (and were) but if you don't have a constant cashflow and it stops then eventually you will have to cease operations and self destruct (as they did-fall).

... i know how the U.S will end... i saw it in a dream... u can tell that the U.S.A is falling when u want some coffee and u finaly find a starbucks and then u look around and theres another starbucks across the street... its going to be hell on earth and i hope that i will die b4 i c it

hey kid , you're not stuck in america, you can leave anytime (please)


if you're goint to plagarize, at least give credit


loius black is a great comedian, and deserves the respect
www.gergltd.com...
When comedian Louis Black performed at the Smith Center in August 2002, he claimed that the end of the universe was in Houston, because it had a street where a Starbucks was across from, alas, another Starbucks




[edit on 2-8-2005 by syrinx high priest]

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
hey kid , you're not stuck in america, you can leave anytime (please)


if you're goint to plagarize, at least give credit


loius black is a great comedian, and deserves the respect

When comedian Louis Black performed at the Smith Center in August 2002, he claimed that the end of the universe was in Houston, because it had a street where a Starbucks was across from, alas, another Starbucks

sure.... and the whole im stuck in america thing is a joke how many times do i have to say that....

well the U.S.A is going to end when somebody is going to launch a nuke... then its not just going to be the U.S but the rest ov the world 2