Things are breaking fast now. China must submit!

Fast breaking interviews and Boxum reports are filtering out of China, from doctors admitting that the "Pork Deaths" are NOT from the normal bacterium to Russia admitting that their outbreak is indeed H5N1 and not H5N2 as previously claimed...This could be the definitive start of the pandemic.

Reports also indicate that China has the sequences of all of these isolates and are not sharing!

We need the world to demand access now!!!

discuss.agonist.org...

www.peacehall.com...

www.miami.com...

Start your preparations...now.

I read somehwere that China has been suppressing the number of actual deaths/cases of bird flu (not sure which). Since we are long due and pandemic involving a flu strain I am rather worried. Conversly, we are at the stage where our medical technology is now so advanced that we are in a beter situation than ever to combat this threat.

Even so, I agree, China has to come up with the goods. How typical of governments to sit an squable at a time of obveous danger.

So gman how exactly do we prepare? Not only may we have actual cases unreported by the Chinese but in a few weeks we will be combating migratory birds. In 3 months the official "flu season" starts for us here in the US.

My suggestion is to make your own stock pile of Tamiflu or the like of antivirals and a whole lot of collodial silver. I know many of you don't believe in the later but hey whatever may work right?

Originally posted by DDay
So gman how exactly do we prepare? My suggestion is to make your own stock pile of Tamiflu or the like of antivirals and a whole lot of collodial silver. I know many of you don't believe in the later but hey whatever may work right?

Your on the right track with your collodial silver, however don't count on Tamiflu unless the dosage is increased tenfold...

here are some other things to consider as far as non-perscription items (read natural anti-virals)

aloe vera (extract?)
raw garlic
strong ginger concoctions
resveratrol
quercetin
other "proanthocyanidins" or whatever they are
essential fatty acids in large doses (for lung inflammation)
zinc (up your nose and as lozenges)
strong green tea
elderberry extract
N-acetyl cysteine
megadoses of vitamin C plus some vitamin E


many sugestions by professionals here..

discuss.agonist.org...

Good luck

thanks you too.

In addition to the suggestions you made, you can also purchase RIMANTADINE which is an anti viral agent and it alot cheaper than Tamiflu.
The problem I see with the antivirals is that by the time you may contract the flu, recognise the symptoms as being the actual flu and getting to the doctor for treatment there may go that 48 hr window that they say you need to be in in order for the treatment of the antiviral to be effective.

Also people I suspect would be in a mass panic and flood the doctors office's and hospitals all wanting to be treated with the antiviral regardless of what strain of the flu they may have and that will deplete whatever stock pile reserves that the countries are building resulting in a shortage in a hurry.

However, having some on hand at home could perhaps prevent the above piece.

Agreed. Our health care will be overwhelmed. Thats why I'm stockpiling and taking preventive measures. I hope this issue gets more coverage before it becomes self evident that a pandemic is underway. By then there might be too many burials going on for anyone to care...sigh.

yes, well I have a little boy at home and if it's in my capacity to do so I will get whatever ingredients necessary to combat this. It does however surprise me that with all of the threads posted concerning this issue that even on this site it is receiving little if any attention.

I also am not content to sit back and let this ride. I wasn't able to pull up your Miami Hearld article because it required a login but I did read elsewhere in Miami Hearld that Bush signed in Apr of this year orders for quarantine.

Yep. I just wonder how were are going to impose this when we have a leaky southern border.

Hate to say this but I'm inclined to go out and purchase some "home defense" equipment and learn how to use effectively to protect my family.

God I hope this thing just blows over.

Interestingly perhaps, with respect to the Bird Flue Epidemic, certain AIDS medications (e.g. CombiVir and Sustiva, taken in combination aka "the Cocktail") provide immunization against it, since the bird flu is a socalled RetroVirus (not normally found in nature).

So curiously, what may end up happening, is that the survivors of a pandemic of bird flu may be patients taking AIDS medications !

Oh, plus ca change !

The following is a part of the transcript from a Boxum release and comments by Dr. Niman.

This is getting very bad very fast. Hope we can make it through the year.


D: "It's alright. We ran tests on those samples and isolated the SZ77++A3231 virus."

I: "What is this SZ77++A3231 virus?"

D: "This is a strain of the Ebola virus."

I: "Would you like to comment about it?"

D: "It's rather impossible to totally explain it."

I: "I can understand so, but why is the term "less-infectious" always affixed to our version of the Ebola virus?"

D: "There are 2 reasons for doing so. First, to reduce panic among the people should it ever leak. And second, the Ebola virus has evolved in China. Re-combination has been detected. Most prominently at the portion which determines its effect on humans (very technical description, I can't describe it. sorry.). Also, abrupt breaks in the sequencing were detected, leading to changes in the incubation period. (Or possibly "changes in the incubation period were detected")

I: "How were these viruses classified then? / Could you elaborate more about the various strains?"

D: "Previously, strains of Ebola in China always had the EBO prefix. Subsequently following information leaks, the classification method was changed. We stopped using the EBO prefix. Instead, coupled with the discovery that the virus had become more virulent and lethal, we re-named the strains according to the placed where they were first discovered. For example, the strain in June became the SZ77++A3231. Sometimes, we don't even use their place of discovery, instead directly naming it the ++A3231."

I: "In that way, the Ebola virus wouldn't even be brought into the picture."

D: "Precisely, viruses such as the Ebola are national secrets."

full comments here:

www.recombinomics.com...

I found something of interest this morning. While reading export of H5N1 pandemic in China the Recombinonics reported that unconfirmed reporting from Boxun.com stated this.
Gman I know you read the Dr. Niman piece but did you see this?

The suspect bird flu case in Kazakhstan, just across the border from the confirmed outbreaks near Chany Lake in Novosibirsk, casts additional doubt on China's claims of now human cases in H5N1. Boxun reports suggest there is a raging pandemic in China, which is being covered up.

The below exchange appears to be between two students in southeastern Qinghai Province. The commentary is unconfirmed, but if true, would certainly suggest a stage 6 pandemic in China.



link: www.recombinomics.com...

Recombinomics Commentary
July 22, 2005

"Hey, are we going to war? Something's not right. I can see many armoured vehicles and soldiers with guns on the road. I can ever hear planes in the air. Rumor has it that they're from Yushu (i believe that this's a location, but i'm not sure which) Can someone please clarify what's happening?"

"They're over here too. I can see hundreds of troops, many of whom are in full battle order. I'm from Yushu"

"I'm from Chengdu. Are you from the region where the bird flu was found?"

"I'm seeing the same thing here too, in LaSuTung (translation, i think it's a mongolian city). I've never seen so many planes in my entire life."

"It must be related to the bird flu."

"I thought "it" (the bird flu) was from the Qinghai region? It's here now? That's really fast."

"We'd better keep a low profile. My parents are asking me not to venture out. I can see troops in full battle order grabbing people. But I'm not sure why so."

"You're right, I can see troops and planes too."

"It must be our comrades getting ready to attack Japan."

"It's such a mess here. We can't even sort nourselves out, what nonsense about Japan. This must be measures to deal with the bird flu."

(2-3 irrelevant posts cursing the japanese in general)

"Hey, I can see troops in "white suits" and planes flying at low altitudes. If you can see them too, can you please acknowledge?"

(5 posts agree)

"I see people being snatched out of their houses"

(curses & swears at everything and anything in particular - Mao Zedong, Deng Xiaopeng and the Bird Flu included)

"Let's see - YuShu, ChengDu, LaSuTung, Jie-Wu (and other locations which i can't read) all inaccessible for the next few days? What the hell?"

"The troops are finally here. They're walking through the village (or town), checking the houses. I should be fine since I don't breed any birds."

"It's ridiculous to think that they can drag people off the streets just because of the bird flu."

"I hear that they're snatching people whose names are on a printed namelist. They're only checking the houses of those in their vicinities."

"Hu Jing Tao & Wen Jia Bao have already said that to eliminate the bird flu, we must start by getting rid of the human cases. Only via ridding the human cases can transmission be stopped."

You can go on to read the further detail by going to the link I didn't want to post the entire thing.

After reading that I got a nasty little pit in my stomach

Can people use "good" sources.

Just because Xinhua isn't reliable, doesn't mean you go all the way to the other end to another unrealiable source.

But anyway, i guess this is a conspiracy site so i don't blame you.

I will wait before Reuters reports this before whipping out the garlic pills.

If you are speaking to my post I do believe I wrote the word Unconfirmed as opposed to stating it as fact.
If anything else I found it to be an interesting read and decided to share.

Originally posted by DDay
If you are speaking to my post I do believe I wrote the word Unconfirmed as opposed to stating it as fact.
If anything else I found it to be an interesting read and decided to share.

Well, your heading doesn't make it sound like a "unconfirmed" reporting, its very sensationalist. I've read news stories on Xinhua that basically say everything such that you are claiming china is hiding.

Eg. China sequences bacterial genome.... etc etc ...

Originally posted by rapier28
Can people use "good" sources.

I will wait before Reuters reports this before whipping out the garlic pills.

The "Good" source was Boxum back in 2002...remember SAR's. Boxum called it right, China had lied and the world lost 800 souls.

Rueter's might report too late, since they depend on WHO, which is afraid to issue warnings until things become self evident.

At least your interested enough to post.

EDIT: EMPTY POST

[edit on 1-8-2005 by rapier28]

What has been confirmed is that China is withholding info. Why? If there is nothing to hide why close an independant lab that was working to isolate and sequence the H5N1? Why all of the secrecy? If nothing else it makes them look guilty and in turn lends some credibility of other reports claiming that there is a raging outbreak there.

I also piggyback what Gman stated about SARS and who was responsible for reporting that.

Even if this report is bogus then the following should capture someone's attention as this virus is moving quite nicely on it's own and if I remember correctly this post wasn't really debunking reports but more sharing information concerning the what if's and when's and what we were doing to prepare. But thanks for your thoughts rapier.

Avian influenza - Russia (Siberia)(04): OIE 20050725.2150
Avian influenza - Russia (Siberia)(05): H5N1 susp. 20050729.2212
Avian influenza - Russia (Siberia)(06): H5N1 suspected 20050730.2216]
Avian influenza, human - East Asia (100): Indonesia 20050715.2017
Avian influenza, human - East Asia (101): Viet Nam 20050715.2024
Avian influenza, human - East Asia (102): Viet Nam 20050719.2075
Avian influenza, human - East Asia (103): Indonesia 20050720.2094
Avian influenza, human - East Asia (104): Indonesia 20050721.2104
Avian influenza, human - East Asia (105): CDC update 20050724.2144
Avian influenza, human - East Asia (106): Indonesia 20050726.2162
Avian influenza, human - East Asia (107): Indonesia 20050729.2204
Avian influenza, human - East Asia (108): Viet Nam 20050729.2205]

www.promedmail.org...:1001:11721223757415301403::NO::F2400_P1001_BACK_PAGE,F2400_P1001_PUB_MAIL_ID:1000,29904

Originally posted by rapier28

Originally posted by DDay
If you are speaking to my post I do believe I wrote the word Unconfirmed as opposed to stating it as fact.
If anything else I found it to be an interesting read and decided to share.

Well, your heading doesn't make it sound like a "unconfirmed" reporting, its very sensationalist. I've read news stories on Xinhua that basically say everything such that you are claiming china is hiding.

Eg. China sequences bacterial genome.... etc etc ...

lol this stuff is credible. Just got back from my docs for a physicle and I asked her about this new threat and she seemed very worried. That's saying allot too as she NEVER gets worried(at least she never let on in the 20 odd years I've been going to her and she didn't seem too worried about SARS either and I live in a hood with lots of Chinese in it lol)

What she said to me was chilling.

Here is the exact quote(take it with a grain of salt though as I don't have a link to back it up, just go by my posting history and you'll realize I'm not prone to making stuff up or blowing stuff out of proportion)

"Bird flu is gonna make SARS look like a mild case of laryngitis"

800 deaths(WorldWide) and Billions in economic damage to my home city of Toronto can be directly laid at the feet of China's closed door policy(With SARS). Considering that's where the majority of Virus's come from and also considering they are now in the WTO they have an obligation to be much more open about stuff of this magnitude. I really wish the WHO wasn't so politicized these days, they really should have issued a warning months ago.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by sardion2000]

[edit on 1-8-2005 by sardion2000]

[edit on 1-8-2005 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by DDay
What has been confirmed is that China is withholding info. Why? If there is nothing to hide why close an independant lab that was working to isolate and sequence the H5N1? Why all of the secrecy? If nothing else it makes them look guilty and in turn lends some credibility of other reports claiming that there is a raging outbreak there.

The secrecy has to do with CCP paranoia, the CCP likes to keep everything under its control so that it can call the shots. I agree it does make itself look suspicious something like streptococcus suis should not be like SARS or bird flu. streptococcus is your average flu strain and vaccines are available for the suis strain.

Boxun is not always correct, earlier this year, Boxun claimed that they was a massive ebola outbreak in China which turned out to be false. Boxun, like the Epoch times, has an agenda. This means that they are just as biased as Xinhua or People's Daily.

Does this mean that everything in Xinhua is false, no. On most accounts, Xinhua is less biased then Boxun or The Epoch Times. But Xinhua will never criticise Hu Jin Tao for example.

Boxun is the same, you will never see anything praising China on it, cause they see that as praising the CCP.

--------

On the issue of bird flu, yes your right, it is travelling quite well by itself ....

Damn birds, can't keep the flu to themselves.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by rapier28]

Originally posted by rapier28
streptococcus is your average flu strain and vaccines are available for the suis strain.

Damn birds, can't keep the flu to themselves.

[edit on 1-8-2005 by rapier28]

The strep is a bacterial infection (not a virus) that should have been controlled with antibiotics, which DOES lead one to consider a viral infection. The pattern of infection suggests a radial vector also, which is a cause for concern. The latest sequencing from russia shows that the Qinghai lake variant is spreading north and west. Quinghai isolate has the HUMAN polymorphism E627K which has nerver been found in avian flu before.
PS BTW Boxum is still reporting on an Ebola/Plague sequence.
[edit on 1-8-2005 by gman55]

[edit on 1-8-2005 by gman55]

[edit on 1-8-2005 by gman55]