The end is near

Originally posted by keybored
I admittedly haven't read any books about the ice age,

It was quite obvious to me that you hadn't. Heve you seen a couple of episodes of Ray Mears extreme survival? He's prefectly able to survive in the harsh conditions of an Alaskan winter, you just need to now some tricks.
Mankind during the ice age was as clever as modern man, dont forget that.

Here is some interesting reading for you, in case you're interested:

campus.northpark.edu...
geology.utah.gov...
geography.otago.ac.nz...
www.iranchamber.com...

Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
Wow, what have you been smoking my friend...

Seriously though, I agree Yellowstone is a very dangerous vulcano, which will eventually erupt again and which will have a global effect on the environment. But this vulcano has nothing to do with the second coming, and all that nonsense.
This is the Fragile Earth forum, not the religion forum...

"The end is near" doesn't tie into Religion? And Yellowstone isn't just a volcano, it is a super volcano. Civilization ending type. ... but then again, a head in the sand attitude is probably best for you since you lack Faith anyway. And don't get me wrong, I don't say this with any animosity, I tell you what I know out of love.

LOL you go ahead and read your survival books, I have all the survival knowledge I need.

Originally posted by keybored
LOL you go ahead and read your survival books, I have all the survival knowledge I need.

Yeah, whatever, I'm gonna stop following this thread what a nonsense.

Originally posted by bleedonstage

Let me give you some facts on what will happen when yellowstone erupts. fist everything within 160 miles will be burried under 50 feet of ash and multen lava, then spurting debris thousands of miles into the air will follow, everyone within 500 miles will die within 24 hours from the inhalatin of the cyanide,sulfer, and particles of glass that will eventually make it impossible to die, not to mention that the cloud of debris will cover the skies for over 6 months and cause the world into another ice age and eventually all mankind will starve and freeze to death.

The description of what would happen in the event of a supercaldera eruption at Yellowstone is, imo, fairly accurate...but it doesn't go quite far enough. The effects of the ashfall would literally cut North America in half, with no produce being distrubuted between them. People living north of the caldera would have empty grocery stores within days. Trucks will no longer transport food due to ashfall while crops within a wide swath would be flattened.
There would be no electricity to run computers, heat homes or cook meals. Think of every thing that you need to survive being ripped away within days of the event.
Certainly mankind will survive...but after the harshest winter in millenia, those who do still walk and talk will be few and cut off from each other.

I really doubt that a particular brand of religion is going to save you...that kind of blind faith reminds me of King Canute ordering the tides to ' turn back'.

If someone believes otherwise, put it to the test. Go out into the wilderness, put yourself into the graces of mother nature and start praying for stones to turn into bread. She is a hard mistress and kills the young, the weak and the foolish and has no regrets about it.

We are responsible to ourselves, imho, and if we cannot learn quickly to adapt to radically severe conditions, we will die.

Springer was right to talk about cannibalism...I'm certain it will play a part when millions are starving. I've seen an example of that happening to someone I knew.
(not going there....too sad a memory)

Zion Mainframe,
I apologize for the LOL, and I do hope you're reconsidering.
Thank you for taking the time to provide the links. At any other time I would have been appreciative of you posting them.
My intent wasn't to drive you away but to bring you forward. Bottom line is that my Faith in the Lord is unwavering and I trust Him to guide us through these troublesome times. I pray that you too find that contentment. You might feel that's nonsense but I KNOW differently.
Had you the experience I had, you too would have no doubts.
Understand that I come from a background that gave me street smarts, wisdom, AND Faith.
My Faith was never as strong as it is today, and it took a tragedy for me to find that out.
I pray that all reading this will seek the Lord, He won't let you down. I just don't know how much plainer I could make it than that. If you find yourself in distress, pray for calm, it's that simple. Believe in the Lord and he will answer your prayer. And it doesn't have to be spoken, a silent prayer is heard too.

As for praying for stones to be turned to bread, God would take that as one asking for a parlor trick. How anyone could even presume to invoke the Lord over such a thing is something the poster should do some soul searching on. Pray for calm and it will get answered instantly, and you WILL know it when it happens, trust me.

edit: Pinnatubo cooled the Earth's temp for a few years, Yellowstone would be much worse.

[edit on 29-7-2005 by keybored]

I was brought up religiously so I do understand your point of view. but as masqua stated; I really doubt that a particular brand of religion is going to save you.

And as i said before, this is the Fragile Earth forum, not the Religion forum.

I've done a few speaches on Ice Ages, their relation with vulcano's and astronomy. I've read quite a few books on the subject, mankind was, and still is, perfectly able to survive it, provided they improvise, learn to live off the land and learn survival techniques. Your Book teaches people to have faith in some 'entity', but that surely wont be enough to survive...

Uhuh...and I was brought up on the strict tenets of Calvinism...pounded home to me by my grandfather who was a Dominee (minister) in that church.

This thread is being hijacked, imo...let's leave the religious theories where they belong...there are plenty of choices to debate 'Gods' hand' elsewhere than Fragile Earth.

Animals in the wild do not eat farmed crops; they eat what their ancestors ate. Wild plants, other wild animals.

That's basically what humans ate then, and that's basically what humans would be eating if the same situation happened.

It would simply be history repeating itself - man survived more than once in these extreme conditions, and the likelihood suggests that man would indeed survive once more.

Albeit in much smaller numbers...

obviously the earthquake guy doesnt know anything about earthquake faults, a fault is designated inactive when the earthquakes that occur are less than 1.0 on the ricter scale...they are never truley inactive in most cases. ALSO,FYI, yellowstone is not a fault, it is a hotspot in the NA tectonic plate, and IS STILL ACTIVE, it is not the movement of plates that causes earthquakes there but the movement of ridgid lava flows underneath the crust....DUH

Not only is man able to survive in the ice age enviroments, but the earth has cycles and the "warming" that is currently occuring is a spacial trend from the last IceAge in 3150 BP or 1150 BC. in no way has the technological advancements of humans encurred the change. There are documented phases occuring every 100,000 years or so however the little ice age of 1150 bc was unexpected and there is reasearch to suggest that the earth was warming prior to thus ice age also.

Obviously you undersand that yellowstone is a volcano, however what you dont know is that the hotspot, underneath yellowstone, erupted once before...when it was under the rocky mountians, now, you are also not aware that there are document cases of what you call crater growth, many times before in the past....and the research you did on the supposed devestation of the eruption is wrong. if yellowstone did erupt it would not couse another iceage...The yellowstone volcano is not a felsic type volcano like mount st helens, if is mafic which means that it isnt viscous at all, viscosity refers to how much its flow is impeaded by itself (ie: honey is viscous, the lava under yellowstone is much more like water....) if you know anything about volcanoes you would know that these types of volcanos do not impede ash of any kind. after the inital explosion of the top which might, i reiterate might, destroy the whole park, lava would simple flow until its source was depleted, the lava would flow into rivers and streams and find the fasts way to sea level, probabally never reacing it...(This information comes from fact....OR PREVIOUS ERUPTIONS OF THE NA HOTSPOT THAT IS YELLOWSTONE) It is impossible for the yellowstone volcanoeo to destroy more than 150 miles around its central base....and to be quite frankly that doesnt endanger you, or the world for that matter...

Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
I've read quite a few books on the subject, mankind was, and still is, perfectly able to survive it, provided they improvise, learn to live off the land and learn survival techniques.

This is the point I was trying to make....How many people do youi know who have these survival skills?
Do you think people will have time to learn these survival skills after the fact?
Most people don't have the slitest clue how to survive without their modern technology.
We are totally reliant on the grocery store for our food, what happens when the shelves are empty?
A lot of people almost die when they break a nail...lol...How will they deal with a major event like Yellowstone erupting.

It may not mean the total end of the Human Race but it sure will be cut back by a few million.

BTW when a Christian says God will "save you" it doesn't mean from the disasters here on Earth. Christians are still going to die, it's where you could go after that you're being saved from.

I cant wait to see the secret plans set forth by our governments to save the intelligent and high government officials. I for one have been following the Yellowstone supervolcano for many years and I also believe it will erupt somewhere in the order of the next 5 years.

Yellowstone is a hotspot volcano. so that magma plume is a characteristic of all hotspot volcanoes. Also..being that it is a hot spot volcano it does not sit on a plate boundary..therefore an earthquake wouldnt cause it to erupt. thats what distinguishes it from oh...mount st. helens which is associated with a plate boundary. Also the opening of the magma plume and the actual magma plume beneath the crust are not aligned with each other anymore do to the movement of the earths crust. So it would have to come out a new opening. It is also a felsic volcano. and felsic volcanoes hardly ever erupt. they become so hot that they just ooze out. they dont have a huge explosion. Intermediate or intermediate-felsic volcanoes have huge blasts however. a combination of pahoehoe and AA flows. (pronounced AH AH), which are very distructive. There was a whole show about this on the National Geographic channel about 2 months ago. And i also Just got done taking a geology class in college and we covered this whole theory. I consider my professor to be credible considering she is a geologist and has a Ph.D in the subject. just my take on the whole thing.
If it did erupt out of a new opening the magma that has been built up within the plume would cover (occording to my professor) most of the western united states, possibly up to near me in illinois, but at a very slow rate.
Kind Regards,
DigitalGrl

That was really informative, DigitalGirl, and interesting, too. There is a big lava bed near me, around Carrizozo NM, called the 'valley of fire' I think. It just oozed out like that, I believe.

What is it that makes them call it a 'super volcano' (I'm referring to yellowstone) if it isn't a likely candidate for explosion? Is it size of the plume or what?

To answer queenannie's question:

The term "supervolcano" implies an eruption of magnitude 8 on the Volcano Explosivity Index, meaning that more than 1,000 cubic kilometers (240 cubic miles) of magma (partially molten rock) are erupted. The most recent such event on Earth occurred 74,000 years ago at the Toba Caldera in Sumatra, Indonesia.

A bit more on supervolcanoes:

From the BBC

Excerpt:

".... the prediction of scientists who have calculated that the global risk posed by a supervolcanic eruption somewhere in the world is between five and ten times greater than the probability of being struck by a giant asteroid."

However, such a thing simply would not happen overnight - there would be signs of rapidly increasing activity for months (and probably years, according to scientists) in advance; realistically, the area would be evacuated long, long before any catastrophic activity.

Very nice FAQ about the Yellowstone caldera activity


(edited to actually answer the question posted...woot!)

Happy reading



[edit on 30-7-2005 by Tinkleflower]

Exactly,

Felisic volcanoes although hardly ever erupting (and when they do it usually just oozes as i said before) does have a chance for an explosive eruption. It is just less likely unless it leans towards the intermediate-felisic catagory. There are 3 catagories of volcanoes: mafic, intermediate, and felisic. due to the types of minerals they are composed of and each one having a wide range of strength inbetween them.

EX: there is a degree 1 mafic eruption through 5, and so on for each catagory...if that makes sense.

anywho...the thing with felsic volcanoes is that they either ooz out and arent harmful at all..or they have absolutly huge explosions beyond what anyone could imagine. Remember when mount saint helens blew out from the side and noone predicted...well that was an intermediate lateral pyroclastic blast...and look how bad that was.

so felsic volcanoes are iffy. but MOST of the time they just ooz out they dont have super explosions. Im no geologist or anything. im actually majoring in History to be a High school history teacher, but i took that class as one of my electives last semester and learned alot because i had a cool teacher.

I have all my notebooks full of notes on all this if anyone has anymore questions.

Has anyone seen any videos of volcanolgists? those people are insane...i had to watch a video in class about them. and this one guy said he wanted to take a canoe and canoe down the volcanic flow someday. and he said he hoped that when he died it would be in a volcanoe...nevertheless he did. CRAZY PEOPLE lol!

Kind Regards,
DigitalGrl

provided they improvise, learn to live off the land and learn survival techniques. Your Book teaches people to have faith in some 'entity', but that surely wont be enough to survive...

We survive through the Grace of God. Your struggle during the next ice age (which you won't have to worry about) isn't from the cold, its from other people who see the limited resources available for all (and doesn't this fact become evident when those survival books reccomend guns for protecting your property, your food, your lives). Once that last loaf of bread becomes contention to the best armed/best trained/best prepared doesn't it seem logical that anybody with a will to live will challenge you for it?
This entire topic is conjecture but the fact remains that if it was happening, there are those who will use that bullet, or that bomb to assure their own survival in a time when there won't be enough for everyone's survival.
My survival is in God's hands and I trust in him implicitly. Had others the Faith I have, this whole argument becomes a moot point.
As for the patterns often quoted as a geological record, perhaps those who follow this theory would be willing to explain what kind of time frame these things happened? Today is like no other time in history, things are happening at a much accelerated rate and as such how can you draw parrallels with what happened in the past? You can't, its like saying we got from Florida to California by horse and buggy whereas now we use jets. We still get there (ice age) yet it will take us a lot less time. This is my reading of the situation and bunk it if you will I care little. What matters to me is the Love Of God and His salvation that is available to all yet sought by few. Believe or not, its your choice. ... but the end is nearer than you think.

Thanks for the volcano info, DigitalGirl and Tinkleflower!

To Keybored:
My questionable 'expert' opinion is this:

The 52,000 galactic year is equivalent somehow to our 52 week year. Somehow there is a logical time frame established by God that is one of His laws for order and regeneration.

And being that the last ice age and many, many changes all occurred 'somewhere' around 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, my guess is that they were right close to 13,000, actually because 52 divided by 2 then 2 again is 13. Each season has 13 weeks and each age has 13 millenia.

Then again it might be right at 12,000 because we were told this time will be cut short for the sake of the elect.

I think, despite the source being the Mayans, that the 2012 thing is right about dead on the money.