Democracy = Died in Ohio in 2004 election theft

Originally posted by edsinger
I mean maybe when you get the felons vote back and suppress more of the military vote, bus more paid voters in, you will win one for the Gipper huh?

Don't forget that they have to flatten MORE tires than they did in Ohio.
Remember all the flat tires on the republican vehicles in Ohio? None on
Democrat vehicles. hmmmm .. Guess they'll have to buy more nails
for '08 and be sure to spread them around at more Republican HQ's
out there ...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by edsinger
I mean maybe when you get the felons vote back and suppress more of the military vote, bus more paid voters in, you will win one for the Gipper huh?

Don't forget that they have to flatten MORE tires than they did in Ohio.
Remember all the flat tires on the republican vehicles in Ohio? None on
Democrat vehicles. hmmmm .. Guess they'll have to buy more nails
for '08 and be sure to spread them around at more Republican HQ's
out there ...

So your position is that voter fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted because the other party does it?
Just politics as usual, on both sides?
I admit, both parties use dirty tricks. Most people are too apathetic to give a crap. When does it become a concern? Only when your party looses?
Does it stop being a concern when your party wins?

Do you feel that the end justifies the means? That, with your party in power, the good for the nation that it will create, negates the way that it got there?

I voted Democrat for the first time when "W" ran in 2000. In fact, I wanted Dole before Clinton. I want what's best for my country, regardless of labels. I think Clinton is a jerk personally, I would never have a beer with him, but he did a great job as President, for my country.

Are you letting party lines cloud what is best for the USA? Not this new revisionist USA people are trying to create, but what the founding fathers believed. Beside slavery and women, and issues like that, they were pretty well on the money.

EDIT: Spelling



[edit on 31-7-2005 by curme]

Originally posted by curme


So your position is that voter fraud should not be investigated and prosecuted because the other party does it?
Just politics as usual, on both sides?
I admit, both parties use dirty tricks. Most people are too apathetic to give a crap. When does it become a concern? Only when your party looses?
Does it stop being a concern when your party wins?

Do you feel that the end justifies the means? That, with your party in power, the good for the nation that it will create, negates the way that it got there?


[edit on 31-7-2005 by curme]

No it is not right for nay party to do that crap period.

It just seems the crying about another stolen election is getting old. The Dems lost AGAIN, get over it.

Voter Fraud goes back to Kennedy(democrat)/Nixon(republican). It was probably going on before then. I don't hear anyone complaining about that election???

So if you want to start prosecuting, you need to go way back.

Besides, I don't hear you screaming about what was done to the other parties (Libertarians, Green Party, etc). So your only concern is the Democrats.

Who decided which Democrats would run? Why do you think it is a free and true election when you are told to vote for A, B, C, or D??? Your energy is being diverted in the wrong direction. We need to change the entire system.

Our voting system has been a scam for years and will continue to be that way. Why do you think we won't allow the UN to monitor out votes?

We've had Republicans (Reagan/Bush) for years, then Democrats (Clinton) for years, and now Republicans again. Do you think there has been any real big change with either party??? They are all the same crooks. And the American System continues to go down the tubes.

Originally posted by edsinger

No it is not right for nay party to do that crap period.

It just seems the crying about another stolen election is getting old. The Dems lost AGAIN, get over it.

Get over it meaning, amnesty? All Democrat and Republican voter fraud should be forgotten?
Everyone should just shake hands, good game, and get ready to cheat on the next election?
I know politicians are crooks, but there is a social contract. You, the politician, make your illegal money, but, in return, you have to make the trains run on time.

There has to be a mechanism to keep the crooks who don't live up to that contract out of office. Once we loose who we, the people can elect, Republican or Democrat, the government no longer serves the people.

Someday I will tell my kids:

"-There was a time when your wrote who you voted for on a ballot. It was a piece of paper, and a bunch of people sat there and counted it. Sometimes, there was dispute, and people took the ballots (pieces of paper) and counted again"

-What was that like?

-It was kind of cool. It made you fell like you had a say in who controls the government. "

Anyone interested in what happened in the 2004 election should read the August 2005 edition of Harpers. Mark Crispin Miller has an excellent expose on the chicanery surrounding the 2004 election.

Bush43 says:

The Republic died in 1803 with Marby [sic] v Madison.

Marbury v. Madison (1803) was the decision which set the concept of the Supreme Court ruling on the constitutionality of a law. What on earth does that have to do with the "death of the Republic"?

I could see where Marbury could be construed as a constraint on "democracy" where the SCOTUS can override a democratically-voted on law to, say force Blacks and Mormons to undergo a six p.m. curfew, or a law forbidding Methodists and Puerto Ricans from voting.

But that's the difference between a Constitutional Republic and your much-ballyhooed "democracy" -- which, contrary to the belief of many people on this forum, we do nnot have here in the United States -- and hopefully, never will.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street


But that's the difference between a Constitutional Republic and your much-ballyhooed "democracy" -- which, contrary to the belief of many people on this forum, we do nnot have here in the United States -- and hopefully, never will.

here here!

Just as the electoral college was supposed to work....it did just that in 2000.





In 2000, George W. Bush carried 2,439 counties to 674 for Sen. Al Gore. Bush lost the popular vote but won the election.


and in 2004 it was even more RED




Now I am not saying vote fraud is right becuase it isnt. BUT, there is a time when the money should be spent elsewhere. Its MOOT.


If you can get a conviction on EITHER side then go for it....but we all know better.

There are major elections next year, and every two years, forever.

Amazing how the concept of "it was Ohio" is spread. It was Ohio, Florida again, New Mexico, and North Carolina, at least. It was about Georgia, which, although a red state, was the proving ground and indeed some Democrats lost this time around there, too. It's about black box voting. How anyone can defend hackable elections is beyond me.

Standing in long lines? Dirty tricks but people can take it. But people who defend hackable elections don't believe in any democracy whatsoever. There is no Federalism without a Democracy input incorporated into it. It becomes something else. Totalitarianism, Orwellian.

Right now there is a real doofus running for mayor of my town. He's up against a Republican. I don't want Doofus to win. But for exactly what reason should I let either of them pay or hire or persuade operatives to hack the election and make a dark mockery of Democracy out of it?

I challenge any of these naysayers to actually read Black Box Voting
www.blackboxvoting.org...
www.ncvoter.net...
www.ncvoter.net...
www.chuckherrin.com... (Republican aghast at hackable voting)
Or watch the video of the testimony under oath before Congress of the computer programmer hired to hack the vote in Florida...

Naah, don't do that. Refuse to read it, hold your hand over your ears and go "la, la la I can't hear you" over and over. Or start a techno band and use "Get over it...get over it...get over it... get over it..." as the rhythm/percussion track.

Wikepedia has huge collection of links to reasonable sources on this matter here:
en.wikipedia.org


ed. to shorten link

[edit on 31-7-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

Noumenon, that's an intersting handle you have there.

I've heard it before, but I kant remember exactly where.

Originally posted by Noumenon
Or start a techno band and use "Get over it...get over it...get over it... get over it..." as the rhythm/percussion track.

boom boom chik, ba boom boom chik, boom boom chik, ba boom boom chik, boom boom chik, ba boom boom chik, badabada bada bada.....
get over it, get over it, waah, waah, i'm a c-c-c-cry baby, dem, ...dem, dem, ....dem, ....'democrat', , de, dem, de, dem democrat.......g, guh, guh, get over it......
boom boom chik, ba boom boom chik, boom boom chik, ba boom boom chik, boom boom chik, ba boom boom chik, badabada bada bada.....

dj mind control IN THE HOWWWW-SE!

i live in sc, a staunch republican state. i voted on the new computer vote machine that time and i tried 3 times to get the machine to register for kerry, and each time it said thank you for voting for bush. then when i brought this to the attention of the poll workers, i was told that there was nothing i could do to change it, and that i voted 3 times and was recorded 3 times for bush. i filled a complaint and was told there was nothing i could do about it- that bush won. if i didn't like it, move. i had taken my oldest 2 children with me to observe the process because they will be able to vote in 2008, and poll workers were telling them that the dems are worthless and this state would always be for the repubs. well, i'm neither of those i'm an independant. i also have several friends that said the same thing, that their machines kept recording the votes for bush. without a printable reciept, we are all being screwed. somethings got to be done. in this great country of ours, we put people in space, cure diseases, and other great things, but we can't guarantee? that the election of the highest member of our country is true? what is happening to this country?

.
Looking at Ed's Maps i see . . .

The places where most people live voted Democratic,

the places where more farm animals live voted Republican.

Wonder if those rural voter registrations have been checked?

Are there a lot of Bessys named on the rolls?
*Moo*
.

BUT, there is a time when the money should be spent elsewhere. Its MOOT.

So, the core reason that you're opposed to having resolution brought to ALLL of the voting irregularities and criminalities is monetary?
Seems odd, while you endorse a resident who vacationed & campaigned on our dime for most of the time he's been in office. One, who by virtue of those irregularities & criminalities, has deepened our National Debt to nadir heights. Same one who started a fake war with a $Billion a week price tag (100's of casualities per week too, but we're just talking money for now).
Seems to me that investigations into the vote & a round of impeachments are the only thing to save us from bankrupting the future completely.

You just have to think that Bush won by cheating dont you? Look if there was cheating on either side it should be prosecuted period.

I am not condoning cheating by any means its just that when voter fraud comes to mind it is most likely a democrat problem, the dead Daily voters for kennedy being one big example.

Most of the folks I run into voted for Bush and I live in California so go figure, but after all its a RED county.

OK, maybe I am missing something. 10 states, all swing states, all of them change from the advance polling by over the margin of error(something that hasn't happened since records were kept) and all of them going to Bush?

And this is still being debated? Come on guys, has anyone else seen that video with the computer programer giving testimony on how the program for the voting machines were geared to give a slim margin of victory which ever side wanted it? I could have sworn I got it off of this site, I don't go to any other conspiracy sites...

Here's the Video Testimony.

Looking at just one aspect of the red/blue picture is incomplete. It's actually more purple...

Pictures on this site: 2004 Presidential Results

I haven't read this whole thread, so I apologize if this has already been posted.

[edit on 2-8-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

It's not surprising that most of this will generally go unsaid in the MSM and unanswered by the government. I'm not sure it's true or not, but it certainly needs to be said that voter fraud has happened in almost, if not all, elections at least in the past 50 years by both sides.

Just the operations by the big two to keep out third parties alone is an oddity that can't be ignored by those who know (and it's rare that it is known).

Most people don't even know what the CPD is, let alone what they do and who runs it.

Originally posted by wantthetruth
i live in sc, a staunch republican state. i voted on the new computer vote machine that time and i tried 3 times to get the machine to register for kerry, and each time it said thank you for voting for bush. then when i brought this to the attention of the poll workers, i was told that there was nothing i could do to change it, and that i voted 3 times and was recorded 3 times for bush. i filled a complaint and was told there was nothing i could do about it- that bush won. if i didn't like it, move. i had taken my oldest 2 children with me to observe the process because they will be able to vote in 2008, and poll workers were telling them that the dems are worthless and this state would always be for the repubs. well, i'm neither of those i'm an independant. i also have several friends that said the same thing, that their machines kept recording the votes for bush. without a printable reciept, we are all being screwed. somethings got to be done. in this great country of ours, we put people in space, cure diseases, and other great things, but we can't guarantee? that the election of the highest member of our country is true? what is happening to this country?

are you serious? wow, i'd be steamed over that.

isn't voting, as our 'president' stated one of the greatest liberties we have as a nation? so why isn't it being taken serious with all these flaws and irregularities popping up? why not have a receipt for each individual vote? it's as if they want to keep it flawed so it can be manipulated for whatever outcome they have already chosen. i refer to 'they' as the folks who have the real tug in the govt.

why aren't more drastic measures being taken to fix such a huge problem? no one should comment on this if they don't see the blatant lack of responsibility being issued.

Alright wantthetruth

The machines voted for Bush
The workers said don't vote for kerry
your kids went home crying 'what a vile world we live in'
Castro killed Kennedy
We never walked on the moon
George washington was a Spanish spy
Milli Vanilli never sang - (oops..got me there)
Elvis is alive
There IS life on Mars
ATS is overseen by the government
All mods on here are reptiles..or communists...or scientists...or...
White bread is actually better for you than WHEAT!
Viagra won't REALLY make you blind

There i feel much better now...time to go watch CNN, and read USA Today. Then I might tune into FOX news on the radio or log onto a BBC broadcast and get all the news I need...see no mind control or government conspiracy here...nothing to see folks.